P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Okay let me present you the way I got rid of my addiction(s). I was addicted to things like weed, alcohol, speed (amphetamines), video games, PMO...I always struggled to maintain longer abstinences because I would always fall prey to an impulsive urge that came out of nowhere and that I had little control over. It often was mixture of feeling bad mentally and emotionally combined with an upcoming urge that suggested smoking a joint and playing some video games to get me out of my current misery.

There is a common misconception concerning your own thoughts. As an addict many thoughts work against us and try everything to do so. Why is that so? Because you have an addicted brain. We somehow trained our brain to release a neurochemical reward to a certain behaviour or consumption of a certain drug. The behaviour or a drug itself causes a release of a neurochemical reward. At some point your brain turns down it’s own production of those neurochemicals and thus you feel bad when not providing external stimulus to your brain. Your thoughts are nothing else then a projection of your mind which itself translates the emotions and needs of your body. Your brain or in other words your body always wants to reach homeostasis and thus acts accordingly. If you now abstain for 2-3 weeks then your brain might reach an alltime low on neurochemicals and so it tries everything to get back in balance. Your own brain now attacks you with urges, fantasies and dopamine-led reward anticipations. Those urges suggest you that if you do this or do that, then you will feel better and good again. A purely dopamine-led reward suggestion can always be identified as a strong needing, wanting, craving, etc. When you give in on that brain/mind-attack then you will feel the disappointment afterwards because you fall into the hollow trap the millionths time. You had so many orgasms in your life that the neurochemical reward from masturbating and having orgasm causes no longer lasting joy, pleasure or satisfaction anymore.

So the basic understanding should be this: at the moment your own brain and mind is your worst enemy. That’s a harsh truth but it’s the reality. The first step out of this destructing cycle is the realisation that you yourself are not these thoughts. When you have an urge you simply should view it as a mindattack
caused by a certain trigger. Your addicted brain tries everything to get its fix. It uses every weapon against you and everytime you give in on it you condition it to attack you with the same weapons again because your brain knows those are working. Those mindattacks are nothing else then a poor attempt of your brain to reach balance again. At the moment you have no weapons to defend yourself. You identify with your addicted brain and thus you don’t even stand a chance against the robber of your happiness. Your most important priority should be the development of your own weapons and to create some space between yourself and the robber. As I already mentioned, meditation is great to create some space between you and the robber and cold showers is a strong weapon. If you have a really strong urge that doesn’t leave on its own then just jump into a shower and cool down your whole body. Another big thing to do is the avoidance of triggers. Don’t lay in bed mindless browsing through the internet. You already know what you will find.

I know it’s not easy to make those steps but you need to be dedicated to get out of this misery. As the years pass by, the symptoms won’t get milder. Your brain also is able to heal much faster in the early 20s then in the mid 20s. You need to dedicate yourself and do everything to get out of this situation. Don’t let the suffering reach a level where the suffering is so unbearable that you simply have no other choice. Don’t reach rock bottom before you start taking things seriously. I did that mistake and it cost me really important years. Develop your own weapons and stop being prey to the robber of your happiness - you are not the thoughts developed by an addicted brain and presented to you by your mind.

 

"Cupid's Poisoned Arrow" is fantastic - especially relevant to this thread I think, because it focuses on the effects of orgasm rather than porn use, and it really shows how much even moderate levels of "arousal" can affect people. Because it was written by a woman, mainly aimed at a female audience, I think for me it makes me think that PAWS symptoms are not likely due to semen loss, but due to dysregulation of dopamine and other neurotransmitters / systems in the brain, which can affect either gender.

 

Yep, I think it is a matter of mileage - mileage being the amount of time you spend in a state of arousal, rather than the number of orgasms.

 

For sure, orgasms are only a small part of it. Most of us have what I call sexuality induced dopamine disorder, it can be any form of sexual craving that induces dopamine. Whether that is sexting, trawling escort ads, tinder, fantasizing, watching porn etc etc - they all work on the same system to different degrees, porn being the most heavy. We have completely fried our central nervous system and thrown our endocrine system out of balance, and it can 2-3 years to fully return to normal homeostasis.

The fact that is shocking to most people with sexuality induced dopamine disorder is that most normal healthy humans spend very little time around sexual dopamine inducing activities. They have sex 1-2 a week and then besides that rarely think about or lust about sex or its related activities. This is the baseline to which we all must return.

 

I think the cause is mainly " over ejaculation." You will get withdrawal symptoms if you watch porn endlessly, that's for sure. I remember when I used to beat it so much back then, I reached orgasm by ejaculating. After that I felt the world country is spinning with me. Overtime, your body will start taking nutrients from other organs to overcompensate...

And when you start rebooting, your body will start eating back the semen your testicles produce to make up for the loss. In fact your body will be on active mode or overdrive to produce semen in quantities.

 

W

Im on the fence about whether its sperm, semen and the magical ingreidents/energy getting depleted or if its the dopamine sensitization theory.

Its obvious PAWS produces similar symptoms in almost all chemical based addtictions ive read about. All drug uses take drugs to get high, for me at least there is no drug high as good as an orgasm. But ive never done heroin, crack etc which are supposed to be better than a orgasm and longer lasting. Strictly behavioural addictions like gambling give similar highs, but I see it to a less extent. Do gambling addicts get PAWS? Comparing our PAWS like symptoms to drug addicts makes the semen retention argument look weak.

Also men who have had vasectomys don't get PAWS, and dont turn into supermen, so it cant be sperm. Maybe there is something magic in semen, who knows?

Women have a certain amount of Eggs, they loose one a month when they menstruate. At menopause, when they run out of Eggs, they typically loose their sexual energies, often get mood disorders.

I don't know. Either way, I hope I keep improving.

 

Studies show that recovery from semen loss occurs generally very quickly, generally within 14 days. This does not account for why recovery is much slower than that, therefore semen has little to do with our long recovery times.

 

I agree. I've never liked the semen retention theory because semen only has one biological purpose that I'm aware of. I can definitely see the possibility of some long-standing prostate inflammation or cell damage done to localized tissue from chronic MO abuse, but I can't see semen having a direct effect on the brain.

 

Listen guys I've been in paws for 5 years and completed almost 2 years of hardmode. So I'm well placed to state what went through in my nofap journey. There's a reason hardmode is necessary for extreme case and I'm on of them. I've hit rock bottom and almost died from severe symptoms. I've seen a lot thread and comments regarding PAWS. If I could rate their level, I would...
Tell me a case of paws where you have to stay in bed for more than a year losing your cognitive function of daily living. Not only that, you twitching on the bed and over again due to unbearable pain.
If I didn't use to orgasm and ejaculate, I would have cured a long time ago. Your semen contain important elements that is vital for your well being.
I don't deny that watching p is not detrimental but orgasm and semen loss take the cake.

 

I really value your opinion, like I said im on the fence. None of us really know whats going on inside. We can only make theories out of experiences.

Nothing to do with porn in my book, ive never watched it. I think Porn can drive you to more Orgasm/Ejaculation because of the endless novelty.

I havent masturbated that much at all in like 10 years since I discovered nofap, just having sex with a partner, usually using meds.

My relationships are always like 1-3 years and always go the same.... Im single for a while, I Get some energy back as im not orgasming, I Attract a girl, get with them have sex a fair bit for first month, then I start to feel rubbish and loose any ability to have sex, the relationship breaks down. As I Get older my ability to restore this energy is less and less.

Im really hoping that it is just over doing orgasm or ejaculation that is the issue. I want to be able to have sex and enjoy that closeness avoiding orgasm. If it is all forms of arousal that is the issue then feels like I can never be in a relationship again!

 

Some of the discussions I see here makes me wonder if some guys are experiencing symptoms of both PAWS and POIS at the same time. That may be why the focus for some is on the fantasy and porn, and for others on the orgasm itself. MO is likely to induce a worsening of both syndromes. If you have both then you might want to make the distinction if there is one. PAWS is a known phenomenon in all sorts of addictions and seems related to long-term desensitization. Hypofrontality, executive function deficits, and emotional dysregulation are the predominant features. POIS is less well understood and produces it's own symptoms even though some may overlap with PAWS. POIS symptoms are mental and physical and tend to improve within several weeks of abstinence where PAWS takes months or years and the symptoms are relatively constant throughout. Cognitive dysfunction is a hallmark of both but I'd bet they feel different from each other. That could be quite the rollercoaster if you have PAWS and POIS at the same time.

My guess is that ED symptoms would be a significant indicator. With PIED, or with flatline in recovery, you need hardcore erotica in your mind to perform in bed. Spontaneous erections don't happen and pure physical stimulus (no porn or fantasy) doesn't keep you aroused. If you have that, then porn is a big part of the problem no matter what because you're still desensitized to natural sex (and every other pleasure as well). Hormone imbalance can also be a factor.

I believe that PAWS and POIS are both the result of chronic masturbation but I think they are different from each other. So far you're the only person I've seen on this board that claims to never have used porn. I'm sure that a pure orgasm addiction is possible but for me it was always my least favorite part of PMO because it meant that the ride was over. I've typically postponed orgasm as long as possible. In both cases, PM and O, the line between compulsion and addiction is very murky and not well understood.

 

I can confirm after my recent string of relapses I have both PAWS on the macro scale, and POIS on the micro.

 

Im curious as to what you mean by “Almost died from severe symptoms” ? Like you were in a hospital actually dying or you just felt that way because of how pronounced the symptoms were? This post is a bit scary to me as I’ve never heard of anyone almost actually dying due to PMO or NoFap.

 

I found a couple of interesting threads on the POIS reddit.

A guy claiming that he cured POIS with antibiotics and probiotics:

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/dav11q/i_might_have_cured_my_pois/

POIS that can last up to several weeks:

https://www.reddit.com/r/POIS/comments/jffh58/why_pois_is_so_devastating/

Many of the POIS threads have one thing in common, the gut. It might have a bigger role than many of us think as it's been said to be our second brain (the enteric nervous system ENS). The brain checks within one millisecond if everything is okay in the gut and if not, the flight or fight mechanism activates which is like a gazelle running from its predator. If our bodies are constantly in this fight or flight mode, then it's very stressful in the long run until eventually the freezing effect occurs, shutting many parts of the body down, including digestion. That's why I started to take probiotics to heal the gut, but I'm not sure if it's enough and if it is, how long would it take to fully heal the gut with probiotics. Probiotic supplements contain billions of lactic acid bacteria and there are also several food products that can have these bacterias like a yogurt. Cbd oil and ginger tea have also reported to work wonders for people with POIS.

 

For sure I have come across POIS, and I fit the bill well. But I havent orgasmed in 210 days now, I had a very hard flatline, and started to pick up after 100 days, but still up and down alot, but very slow non linear improvement - perhaps. I could well have neither issue. I might be suffering from anxiety and mild depression but I have literally tried everything, so hence why im trying NOFAP.

Whilst I continue to have this non linear improvement I might as well continue, my symptoms make trying to have a sexual relationship pointless so abstinence is easy.

 

I was pmoing during PAWS. Then 2 nights, I woke up and felt like my eyes were flying, wandering around the room and the ceiling. Like I couldn't I see my body lying in the bed. It was so scary that I went to to kitchen to drink some water. I was scared to go back to sleep thinking I would not wake up to see the next day. Furthermore I used to struggle to breathe a lot of times. There are a lot more I can't recall due to brain fog.

 

That sounds terrible, I’m sorry you have gone through all that. I’ve had similar experiences with the trouble breathing as well as a host of other symptoms and have actually been to the ER 37 times this year and seen 11 different specialist but all my tests always come back negative or normal and every doctor thinks stress and anxiety are the root of it all .... Bringing up PMO as a root cause has been wholeheartedly dismissed but this PAWS stuff is no joke....

 

There are definitely some foods and food additives that trigger and worsen my cognitive symptoms, there's no doubt about that. YMMV.

BTW, I don't obsess on my diet. Just the opposite, I don't question it anymore. I did the hard work to figure out what was causing the difference between my bad days and my worse days. Now, I'm as stable as my brain will let me be while I ride it out. Like I said, nothing makes it better, but lots of things make it worse.

 

Day 210

My exercise tolerance is improved massively, before nofap I would be suffering liek a chronic fatigue patient if I did more than a slow jog. The last week ive started moving more and more intensely, doing 2 hour gym workouts with sprint intervals etc and I feel pretty good, I feel tired my body feels warm and relaxed and my mood i better. Theres definately going to need some recovery and adjustment to this super hard exercise ive taken up.

I can really equate my tolerance to hard exercise to anything else but nofap. I feel if I went back to regular orgams id go back to being a weak dizzy anxious mess who cant exercise without feeling crippled for days after. Im doing everything I can to explain it any other way but I cant. Ive got a building masculine energy, im attracting women, I feel more confident, have more purpose, I find it hard to lay in bed motionless for days like I did pre nofap and for a long period in my initial flatline.

Still no morning wood. However this last week ive had several occcasions where I have felt some form of libido, its so alien to me its hard to admit. Im on date 5 with a stunning girl called Jade and weve only kissed a little bit, I dont feel horny in her presence really but days after when im alone relaxing, or driving in my car - at several points I just start thinking of her and touching her and kissing her, nothing sexually explicit, like it should be I guess. I then get this moody lustful feeling and energy weight in my crotch. No erections but im definately starting to feel something!

I dont think its because a fantastic girl has come into my life either. I think whatever qualities nofap has given me the past week has attracted women into my life, and they all have desired me. I think it wouldnt matter if jade was awesome, if it was one of the other girls I dated who was less attractive id still feel the same way. Nofap is giving me back my masculine energy to naturally want to go an make babies and populate the world, I am not going to waste it.

I did almost have a wet dream last night, about having sex with a female friend - not jade. Woke up before I spilt the beans, but first sex dream ive had in like 100 days.

I have also been practising kegels for like 11 days, my strength in the area has improved, not sure if it has had this effect on the way I feel but I dont want to rule anything out or miss anything.

 

I was a quickie kind of guy typically spending 10-15 mins on a session, 3 times a day at my worst for some years and fast forwarding to favourite scene and ended up with severe symptoms. Its not a one size fits all with PMO. I think the orgasms done me in, my brain used to feel frazzled years back after pmo'ing.