P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

I have not busted a nut in 7 days and I must say that I feel really low and have been hit by the flu. Maybe I am suffering from withdrawal!? Yesterday I felt really motivated and now I actually quite depressed! I was a skeptic, but this shows me that porn can change the brain I guess. I felt better when I busted nuts. I think I am better off with watching porn and busting nuts!

 

Quite true. It is what I have often tried to propagate since I subscribed here.

For severe cases, semen retention is essential to see good results in two or three years even.

There are not even people who have not healed after 2 years in a hard way, instead, unfortunately we have hundreds of publications in which men delete only pornography and still do not improve. The reason for this constant flat line in those cases is because these men continue to have orgasms and ejaculate when with sex or masturbation alone without porn.

PEOPLE CAN STOP THE PORN BUT THAT WILL NOT HELP ANYTHING IF THE PERSON CONTINUES TO HAVE SEX AND CONTINUES TO MASTURBATE.

Hence the theory of rewiring (seeking sex with someone) is wrong when it comes to severe cases or people who have been too PMO users.

 

Interesting this thread.

I find it interesting to learn to read Publications of this class.

I have never had mental symptoms. You may very well have never experienced this, but, I like to read the severe case posts to learn a little more. I am one of those who think that one learns from severe cases, because from these publications one can determine how far one can be from normality in terms of health.

Some of my background:

I started using porn from the age of 24 only. Never in my teens.

Never in my life have I used any type of drugs or alcohol.

The first orgasm in my life was when I was 20 with only MO.

When I read publications in which people say they suffer all these symptoms it seems to me a lie and I find it difficult to believe it.

But, the fact that I do not feel them does not mean that these symptoms are not true in people.

I have never had depression or anxiety, I love to socialize, I like to read, walk, go out to nature, I am very friendly and I have a good life.

My only problem has been trying to quit porn and it's working. I am currently in 4 months.

But I like this thread because I have been able to learn from those who are on this journey much longer than I am. It's good information for me.

Good to know that even in cases as severe as these, people can heal. They even manage to heal when they have been poly addicted (that is, not only addicted to PMO but also to other things, including drugs).

 

This is very interesting here for the following reason:

Many men in recovery have this stupid and absurd belief:

"When I am cured of this addiction to pornography, life awaits me and I will fuck many hours a week 24/7"



You have written here a very certain thing: Normal and healthy people have a normal libido. It works in normality and in normal standards.

There are men here at NOFAP who have the wrong belief that NOFAP is going to turn them into some kind of GODS OF SEX or something like that.

After recovery, sexual life will be normal. With it being normal is enough.

How nice that you highlight this here.

There is always talk here about recovery, signs of recovery, libido, erections and all those things, but very little reference is made to what a normal sexuality is.

Very good your post.

 

This is simply not true. I have had wet dreams all throughout my recovery yet i am still recovering just fine. In fact wet dreams seem to have no impact on my reboot now at all.

 

Not to mention that the long list of PAWS symptoms are the same ones seen in other substance addictions, which have nothing to do with semen loss. Avoiding O is important though because it alters brain chemistry in an extreme way. I think abstinence from all forms of gluttony, bingeing, and euphoric states (especially orgasms) is critical to healing the brain, but losing seminal fluid itself doesn't mean as much as people think.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Hi.

A clarification.

I'm not talking about wet dreams. Maybe I am writing in the wrong way.

When I say Semen Retention, I mean not masturbating or engaging in masturbatory sexual behaviors such as viewing pornography while masturbating, or simply masturbating.

I have also had wet dreams in these 4 months of recovery. But they are not a problem.

 

@Ezpz

This approach is the same one with which I agree. This is what I mean when I talk about Retention.

But if I'm wrong, thank you let me know.

 

Do not be angry but forgive this ignorant question perhaps from me:

Could it be that the doctor was right?

I also used porn like you for a long time (from my 24 years of age with VHS to my current 38, on the internet only since my 28 years of age) however, I have not been able to experience brain fog, or depression, or anxiety.

Is your problem underlying?

I definitely need you to teach me more about this.
Thanks friend

 

How is your recovery going? I noticed your back on this site, and your counter has reset, are you back to watching porn/relapsing? How do you feel and why did you return to PMO?

 

I never have big problems in my old pmo days for the firt 2 years except I was losing motivation and zest for life. The first 3 years I was losing semen while watching endless scenes to finish. Since then I found nofap and went on streaks back n forth for 6 years. I started becoming free 3 times but returned to my old ways. I was Kindling while in PAWS.

Brief, I think my problem is more to do the semen I used to lose each time I was doing pmo. Because each time my organs reproductive produce sperm, the body eats it right away and I notice brain fog become lesser....

 

100% this has been my experience. Some people don't like to hear it because they feel they are giving up everything enjoyable in life. However, lessening overindulgence has been critical to my recovery. One aspect of this is resisting turning to lifes pleasures (PMO, chocolate, gossip, lust etc) in order to deal with stress / uncomfortable emotions. The more you can avoid this the more clear your mind will become

 

Hey guys,

recently I've entered the 14th month of recovery and this week I can report back something like a small success-story! I would say this is the first week since a really long time where the good experiences outweigh the bad experiences. I had 2-3 days where I had a cristal clear vision, no anxiety, no depression, slim to none DP/DR for several hours. I also experienced motivation, a positive outlook on life, on myself and my skills and overall just felt really good. Those moments eventually faded and mostly in the evenings I'm very tired and brainfogged again but I feel many symptoms arise from being very very tired as I often push over my limits when I feel good. On friday I met up with a buddy to make some music while he also teaches me the basics of producing a beat. We spent more then 10 hours on fine-tuning our beat and getting some lyrics recorded. I was able to pick up everything he teached me and directly use it on my own. On saturday I woke up and just had this motivation to set up some new drums for my own beat-project as I now knew how to do so. It was just an amazing experience to feel this natural motivation and excitement over something again. It kinda kickstarted my excitement for producing music as I felt this huge reward of learning something new and putting it into reality after sleeping one night over it. This excitement wore of just a little until now which i think is normal but I kept learning new stuff on my own and I'm eager to dive deeper. Also some ladies I often met through my work where I'm driving around and doing logistics, purchasing regional food, and deliviring it, acted somehow different in my presence. I noticed that they want to speak to me. On one day I was in a really good mood and kinda initiated small talk and on the other day I actively kept myself a bit silent because I noticed that I got to involved with this one cute girl in my thoughts, not fantasizing sexually or anything like that but more that I really liked her and somehow had the urge to ask her to go out and just spend some time together. But I put some thoughts in it and I it seems like dating isn't a good idea at the moment. So I pulled myself back a little but just the knowledge that I have developed urges to met up with a woman in a really healthy manner is something completely new for me. But I want to live on my own at the moment until PAWS resolved itself. It's also the first time in my life that I really have no problem of being on my own and not having many friends or a girlfriend. The relationship to myself and my selfworth had some major improvements in the last few weeks although I struggled with a big PAWS wave.

It's just so amazing to feel this joy for something simple again after experiencing heavy PAWS waves over the last weeks and months. It just felt like coming out of a two months long wave again. I know that the next wave is just around the corner but man those moments where I feel so alive and filled with bliss are like a sneak preview of what life after PAWS can look like and I don't always have to be that blissful but just the abstinence of symptoms is great.

Today I kinda feel meh but I learned to not take a certain mood or meh day to seriously. Often I just need a good rest in my bed over night and many things resolve themselves. I feel like my meditation really helps with being patient and not taking moods, thoughts or emotions to seriously.

There is definitely something going on and happening this week that I did not experience the 14 months in this recovery before.

 

That's great DerJogge! I'm happy that you're starting to remember what normal feels like. We'll all get there soon as well.

 

Can totally relate with what your saying... When I used to binge orgasm I used to get these high states for a coupe of days occasionally and then it would just disappear. Stopping all orgasm I went into a 100 day flatline of misery. Now almost similar to you, my mood lifts and I experience pockets of motivation and joy. I try to explain them by my actions in life but in reality I dont think the way im eating or exercising has any real impact on how I am feeling this energy.

Like you I tend to do more things when I feel this energy, like socialize like mad or exercise like mad. Reading your post felt like reading where I am at right now. These energy states althogh subtle for me are SO recogniseable from the days and days of empty misery and weakness. All we can do is keep going.

 

I got pretty nasty withdrawal symptoms after 7 days of NoFap! I felt really unmotivated and sick. Pain in my bones like I had growth pain. I busted several nuts yesterday and feel better already. I do not think not fapping is healthy for your body and mental health. I think your body needs it's sexual tension release or it will bring you down on your knees! I am better of busting nuts, I will keep porn at a minimum though.

 

This was surprisingly painful to read as I realized that I don't remember what it feels like to be normal as I started PMO around the puberty and it has pretty much been a part of my whole adult life.

You will eventually hit a wall where no porn or busting a nut will feel good. Symptoms right now are nothing like what symptoms will be then as they will only get worse over time. But I guess everyone has to experience the hard route, like myself, before starting to realize things and making crucial decisions in life.

 

Just so you know, I'm 49 and I've been a porn addict for more than 30 years. With high speed porn it escalated into a complete monster. I've had PAWS symptoms since getting off benzos 12 years ago. I only recently learned that my ever worsening cognitive/emotional problems were related to porn addiction as well. The memory loss, loss of attention span, anhedonia, anxiety, and learning dysfunction have left me a shell of who I formerly was. I'm scared that my brain is permanently ruined.

Your situation isn't worse than any other but I promise you that if you don't stick to your guns right now then it will still be with you when you're pushing 50 and beyond, but it will be much worse. Your profile says you're 36 so be happy you even know what is happening to you. I would give anything to be able to rewind 15 years and learn about Nofap, kindling, hypofrontality, PAWS, etc... Knowing that would have changed the course of my life. Going undiagnosed is possibly the most evil aspect of all of this. I've fought against suicide for the last 10 or more years while not being able to connect my symptoms with addiction. I thought of my porn use as more of a behavioral compulsion than a powerful chemical addiction. When I say feel normal again, I'm talking about just getting up out of bed and not feeling confusion about everything in life. To feel a general sense of competence and purpose again. Addiction eventually destroys every meaningful aspect of the mind and living your life.

Regardless though, it gives me hope that my symptoms overlap with those of both young people and non-porn PAWS addicts because if they can heal, so can I and so can you. I'm at 7.5 months PMO free 100% monk mode and I've vowed to never use porn or fantasy like a drug again. In the future when my brain resensitizes I only want natural spontaneous vanilla sex, or none at all. I've had enough erotica and fetish to fill 20 lifetimes. I will forever see fantasy and masturbation as a punishment and not a reward. It is an act of pure gluttony and serves no healthy purpose whatsoever. Right now, I just want my memory and my emotions back. After that, I could give a shit how long it takes to get my libido. Who fucking cares?

I will never, ever, forget what porn has done to me. In the future when I'm on my death bed I will be able to say that 3/15/2020 was that last time in my life that I PMO'd in any way shape or form. No excuses, no looking back. The only thing I can think of more pathetic than what got me to this point would be to know the cure and be too weak to follow through with it. That's not me. And, that's not you. Put your tracker on your profile and make yourself accountable to everyone here and don't ever relapse again. It's that simple. You've had plenty of time to accept your fate. You will use this experience to build your true character as a man of discipline and you will be a success story in the end. By the time you're 38 you'll have a normal life again and be able to appreciate it more than most other people because of how long you were sick. The only other option you have at this point is to relapse and stay sick forever.

Here is an excerpt from an article about drug/alcohol PAWS that give me hope. The purpose of pasteing it here is to remind and encourage anyone who is suffering. Learning about PAWS in general has been an important motivator because It has been a revelation to me that my symptoms are part of a recognized phenomenon and that I'm truly not alone. Knowing that people are aware of PAWS and that people also recover from it gives me the most sense of hope about the future. It gives me the most motivation to push forward no matter what it feels like during the process.

------------Article -------------

What is PAWS?

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) is a set of impairments that occur immediately after withdrawal from alcohol or other substances. Alcohol withdrawal is one of the few withdrawal syndromes that can be life threatening. The condition lasts from six to eighteen months after the last use and is marked by a fluctuating but incrementally improving course. It has importance to the recovering addict’s ability to benefit from recovery, treatment, function effectively on the job, interact with family and friends, and regain emotional health.

Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) has three major areas of impact upon the individual:

Cognitive: PAWS creates many difficulties with cognitive processes. Racing or recycling thoughts are often noted and found to be highly distracting by the individual. Thoughts may be scattered and even a lack of coherence at times may be present. Others may notice a certain rigidity of thinking and lack of required flexibility. In connection with this, abstract and conceptual thought may be negatively impacted. Cause and effect reasoning suffers as well in the early stages of recovery. Themes and threads connecting disparate events may not be recognized as easily. Concentration and attention span may be impaired. Confusion may be present. Prioritization by the individual will likely be a difficulty for six to twelve months.

Emotional: PAWS tends to create in individuals either a dearth or excess of emotion. The individual may be hyper reactive emotionally. Even small events of little consequence may loom large in his/her mind and create strong and overly valent (not being able to bond thoughts together) reactions. This may lead others to suspect a relapse or create social withdrawal. Shame emotions may be noted. Conversely, The individual may notice a numbing of emotions. The inability to feel impairs proper emotional bonding with friends and family during the early recovery process. It also impairs the recovery process itself as the individual struggles with trying to feel the resentments, anger, guilt, shame and other emotions common in recovery.

Memory: Memory is frequently the most noted PAWS problem. Recently learned information (within the last 30 minutes) may be quickly forgotten. New skills or routines may be learned and then not assimilated as before the drinking began. Information may be retained for a short time (days/weeks) and then lost, requiring the individual to learn it anew. As recovery requires inspection of the past, the individual may discover that developmental and childhood memories are totally absent or only remembered in a spotty fashion.

All of the above PAWS issues can obviously affect the early recovering person. The recognition of this syndrome by the recovering person as well as by friends, family and colleagues is important. The individual will note that the severity of PAWS decreases as time progresses and that PAWS is stress sensitive. Lowering of stress is helpful. Healthy habits such as limiting caffeine, getting 8-10 hours of sleep, eating three balanced meals and exercising three-four times weekly usually prove beneficial. Meditation, or relaxation exercises can be invaluable once properly learned. Obviously AA involvement with a sensitive and experienced sponsor is key to navigating through PAWS.

Most individuals find the first six months to be the most PAWS impacted with decreasing severity over the next six-month period. By the end of one year, most persons have returned to their respective levels of functioning.

 

I'd say, dont expect the same level of zest, motivation, libido, enthusiasm, self-confidence, and testesterone levels post healing.
Thats a big mistake. You will end up waiting forever.
That state does not exist, except for when you are starting out on nofap early.
A state where you are healed, as i ve experienced, sure is more jouyous, and more blissful. But for me what was really disappointing was, i could not find the same level of testesterone that i was expecting, or atleast half the level that i am used to experience pre-recovery.

Healed state is a normal state. Dont expect magics!

 

I completely agree with you, but a normal state might look like a superpower to an addict.

For me, to be able to laugh with friends, consistently, for hours, every day, would be heaven. I don't wish for anything more than that. I want joy for life again.

For the past week, I had joy and energy to be active for at least 12 hours. And now I'm back to being miserable. I'm far into recovery, so I don't think it's the beginner nofap honeymoon phase in my case. There will come a time when I, and everyone here, has mostly normal, good days. I'm sure of it.