P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

You will! Its not that hard.
I agree

 

Did you personally experience this or are you predicting that this will be the case? That’s very depressing to hear. I’d literally do anything to have my old life back. I’m 22 and have had PAWS symptoms since around 17. 5 years since I felt somewhat normal.

I’ve constantly been afraid that even after the 2 or so years it takes to heal, I won’t be who I once was. I also feel like a shell of my former self. I want nothing more in life than to be who I was before PAWS. My longest streak ever was about 23 days so who knows how difficult my journey will be, but I was just hoping that one day I would wake up as my normal pre-PAWS self.

 

If someone is to compare between you (at your current stage of recovery) and me (at my stage), they would blindly see the difference and be able to tell.
I will have massive upperhand. In terms of motivation, self confidence, happiness, social skills, cognitive capacity, and who knows, maybe looks as well.
It's that I am talking something very different here.
I hope you were uplifted by the Truth!

 

It sounds like we've been in very similar places. I do take massive consolation in this thread, knowing that I'm not alone with the problems that I have, with this level of severity, and that there is hope of some kind of recovery. I think about having that damned time machine every day... (I'm about to turn 49).

 

So a couple of questions for you guys. Hopefully this applies here, sorry if it does not.

So I started NoFap/SR well over 4 years ago. I have had countless streaks getting all the way up to 4 months(120 days)twice. Most of the relapses have usually just been with MO and not PMO. So to put a guess I would say Ive relapsed 50-75 times to MO and 25 with Porn. I still feel the damages to this day, all the common symptoms a lot of you have.

Do streaks add up like going 4 months and then 1 month and then 2 months, or is it simply going 6 months and higher with no relapses to feel better on these streaks? Cause I never have gone more than 4 months sadly and when I have gotten up to 2-4 month range I start feeling like I have PAWS. My streaks definitely have lost the positive effects compared to the earlier streaks from years past. Like right now being at 50+ days I'm not nearly as better as I was the first or second time I was on 50+ days. Hell even these last 50 days have been pretty brutal.

So my guess is you have to go a straight 6 months to a year without any relapses to even know if you are healing? I just wanted to know what you guys thought about it. Thanks.

 

Your jorney sounds quite inconsistent, with a lot of relapses. From your description, I would say you are not doing it properly so don't expect to get the benefits, i.e. a full recovery.

Also relapses vary: it's not the same to do a quick MO once a week without fantasy than to binge to PMO for hours, even very sporadically.

My advice is you remove at least P completely and forever from your live, to start off.

 

@zander13 your post disappeared, but I agree whole-heartedly

 

Yeah, I decided that it wasn't worth it.

I did make it a year though. I'm at like 374 days or something.

 

???

 

Lol why, I thought it was a really good post

 

I decided that I didn't want to contribute to any type of arguing.

But yeah, it does bother me when people come on here and try to label my own experience.

Retaining semen must be the answer though, because it is, in fact, filled with anti-PAWs chemicals that simultaneously increase testosterone whilst magnifying the ability to achieve our highest aspirations. Non-masturbatory virgins are, without question, the most powerful versions of our species on the planet.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions I suppose. I'm here to read the stories of the guys who are experiencing similar shit so I don't feel alone. And because the guys in front of me give me hope that I can get through it.

 

I just wanted to say thank you for your post as it really hit home. Unfortunately my general condition is so exhausted at the moment after a recent relapse that I'm not able to post a long message. I just don't have the energy to think and type. I have to constantly pause and rewind a TV-serie that I'm watching to get the message at times. Reading through a few posts on this board is enough to get me exhausted and it takes me a few weeks of light chores and resting in between to get to a point where I have the energy for a longer walk or just have some life in my voice and social skills. I want to read more and do things other people consider trivial, but I can't. What is even worse is that I haven't gained any enjoyment out of my recent relapses. It's like some old drug addict taking a hit, hating it, but still doing it.

I have mixed feelings about the whole counter system as I don't want to be constantly notified where I'm exactly at since I roughly know it anyway and it'd probably lead me to thinking and counting the days if I knew the exact amount. On the other hand it gives accountability, that you're dedicated to the whole thing.

 

Past 12 months and still suffering majorly. I hope things start to improve at least a little bit over the coming months. These symptoms can really grind a person down to a nub.

 

I think it's important to let go of all sexual thoughts during healing. I'm only mentioning it because I don't know how strict you are about keeping your mind clean and not just avoiding PMO. I'm just shy of 8 months in and it's only now that I can say that I don't have any more involuntary thoughts or dreams about my old fantasies and fetishes. For the first couple of months I would still have voluntary sexual thoughts even though I didn't act on them. For some reason early on it still felt like a reward to escape into the fantasy world for a couple of minutes even without MO-ing. But I figured out months ago that even entertaining any sexual thoughts from the past only keeps them active, reinforces the addiction pathways, and slows down recovery. But even after I quit doing that I kept having random thoughts or dreams about the old subject matter for quite a while. It's like now my mind has finally accepted the concept of true abstinence without fighting it any more. I've finally been able to remove all graphic sexual imagery in my head.

I'm still suffering with all of my flatline/cognitive/emotional symptoms but there is a different quality to it now and I'm wondering of you experience the same thing. I know that if I relapsed it would all rewire just as strong as ever but now that I've stopped feeding the habit for so long, the attraction to my old fantasies and perversions is weakening, especially the more hardcore ones. There is a distance between me and those thoughts now and I don't feel connected to them or a compulsion to use them to "get high" with. So even with my PAWS symptoms persisting, this is at least a real change in my brain that I can put my finger on. The end of porn flashbacks is probably the first real tangible change that I can report in my recovery.

It feels like when I quit smoking cigarettes and several months in I realized that I no longer identify as a smoker anymore, even though I know I'm still a 25 year addict and that I could easily huff down a pack in half a day if I relapsed. So while it's fragile, there is a noticeable disconnect happening with the erotic imagery.

 

I am in such a similar situation. Weeks 2-5 for me in my current streak were hellish - perhaps the worst yet. Some days I literally just went from the bed to the sofa and back, via toilet and kitchen. Since then there has been a very slow but noticeable improvement. I can walk to the shops now, although that still takes it out of me badly afterwards.

Can I ask: what "diagnosis" have you been given in terms of your health, and / or what do you tell other people is wrong with you? Have you actually told people that you know IRL that you have a PMO addiction, or do you use a "cover" story? I tell people I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, largely because I thought that's what I genuinely had for many years, and in effect, that's what I do have (albeit Porn Induced CFS).

I could be in this for a long time in terms of the symptoms, even if (pray / touch wood etc etc) I never PMO again.

 

If you depend financially on someone you love while you're sick then you should level with them since you know what's really going on. If they stood by you during the unknown diagnosis phase then the odds are good that they won't judge, they only want you to get better. Addiction is actually easy to understand and any generic PAWS literature may help. Obviously if you have someone in your life that is very judgmental and you know they won't be helpful, then you should keep it hidden from them. My girlfriend, who I live with, and my 80 year old mother both know. But, my hard-ass brother doesn't. When other people close to you know the truth and the projected timeline for recovery, you'll find that it's much easier to not relapse because you know you'll let them down also. They really just want you to get better. It's easier for them to be supportive when they know what you're fighting. While the porn part is a little embarrassing, most people can easily understand sexual compulsions and sex addiction as legitimate things. Accountability to a human you care about is much more effective than to an anonymous message board.

For everyone else, it's none of their business. CFS, depression, or anything else is fine to use as an excuse. I keep it very vague.

The important thing is that once you know 100% what you're dealing with, then you need to treat it with total commitment and seriousness. Real life accountability is extremely helpful. I predict that you will never relapse again because you know what you've done to your brain. The only people who continue to relapse are the ones who are still living in the denial phase. You don't wonder if porn addiction is real and you don't deny the reality of PAWS. There are no more moments of weakness for you because you no longer see MO as a reward, much less P or fantasy. Reward only comes from discipline, not lack of discipline. Take your age, add 2, and plan to be living an active healthy life by then. Understand that most of the progress will come in the latter half. You have to be the one to do this.

BTW... when you say "current streak" it makes me feel like you're expecting a "next streak" because streaks all have end points. That's the Groundhog Day scenario that keeps people stuck. If you heard an alcoholic talking about his "current streak", you would roll your eyes because you know that he hasn't decided to really quit yet. Deep down, he still thinks the goal is to figure out how to become a social drinker in the future.

This is it, there are no more streaks for you. You are ready for the complete and total surrender to your recovery. You are no longer a masturbator. You don't think about porn. You don't care about it. You don't care if other people use it because you know it doesn't make them happy. It's not like you're missing out on something wonderful or giving up some source of happiness. In reality, you're giving up a life of perpetual want and misery. I feel sorry for people who use porn because I know they are only trying to fill a void of their own making.

Whatever change feels like, no matter how uncomfortable, that's what it is.

 

Well said.

 

Thankyou for the thoughtful reply.

I don't depend on anyone financially - I've lived on my own for a long time. Doubtless porn use is partly responsible for this, but there are other factors too. Finances are a real issue at the moment; I do have options in the pipeline, but none of them are great. I am really hoping to make a full recovery, and get back in to employment, once that seems realistic - I'm banking on that, but can't really tell anyone (beyond sounding vaguely hopeful about my long term prospects) because then I'd have to go in to the specifics. I have my cover story, and I'm going to have to stick with it, even thought I feel quite guilty about it, simply because if I 'fessed up to the truth (as I see it - and I *may* be wrong - I may genuinely have CFS) people would think I was mad. Lets face it, there are plenty of people here on Nofap who think we're crazy to attribute the level of physical incapacitation that I and others are going through to heavy long-term use. I'd have zero credibility in the "real world", and probably destroy some key relationships in the process at a point where I literally can't afford to do so.

In terms of accountability I have tried various options. There is no-one in my life who is capable to taking porn addiction seriously as an issue. I strongly suspect that most of my friends / family members have issues with this of their own; hell, in some cases I know this to be true; non-the-less, I have tried talking to two friends about it, and a doctor and psych, but none of them took it seriously. I have used the coaching services of a well-known member of the Nofap community and while that helped, as you say above, ultimately it comes down to me to do what needs to be done (also, I am now totally broke so can't afford that type of help!).

I have thought about seeking an accountability partner on here, but I'm not keen on the idea of dealing with someone I don't really know. However, I find that journaling every day, and actively posting on threads like this are very helpful. Also, I am very motivated by my counter - I am competitive with myself, which maybe has the seeds of it's own destruction, but I do want that 500+ day counter.

Currently, my health is so bad, and my general situation so dire, that I am more motivated than ever in any case. This is something I really feel on those moments when I am triggered, because now even if I get a little turned on, I also recoil - like you would if you put your had in a fire. I know I am in a different place now than I ever have been. I rarely think about P at all these days, and that is an underlying trend for me. I also rarely have problematic dreams, which I think is a result of thinking so little about anything sexual. Hopefully this is a permanent change, slowly in the making. the only doubt I have with this change is that as / when my health improves, if my libido shoots up, do I get crazy urges, or will I be changed enough for this not to be an issue?

In terms of "next streak", I see where you are coming from. I am simply cautious. There have been too many times where I have had a relapse and said "Never again!". And within a week, I have. I've said "Never again!" so many times that it's lost all meaning. However, my current streak is different from my previous streak, and the one before. The last 2 years of my life is easy to remember and make sense of in terms of the length and mode that I was in. In the past I have tried to take the attitude that "this is it!" and let go of the scaffolding that I need to keep myself focused on staying abstinent. For me, as a recovering addict, I need to know exactly where I am, how I'm doing, and have strategies to hand to deal with problems / triggers when I need them. Otherwise, I am much more likely to have problems. I am very hopeful that this my last streak, in the best possible sense.

 

Good luck Dave! We will both have that 500+ counter very soon!

 

Hey guys, i really need your opinion. Does this sound like PAWS? I truly believe it is, but im starting to doubt it.

Started Nofap 5 years ago. The first 2 years i didnt go over 30 days. I had lots of benefits the first weeks and relapsed everytime withdrawals would hit. After those 2 years i started having longer and longer streaks and the positive benefits dissapeared and the healing process just went flat with depression and anxiety(mainly social anxiety) Now for the past 3 years i have had various streaks and with some MO relapses and 1-2 PMO relapses, no binges tho. I have had 6 month streak and some 3 month streaks Right now i am at 7-8 months with 1 MO relapse. Sometimes very rarely i notice i have a day where my symptoms are much much better, but its very rare. Could this be paws even after this long? My progress all together is maybe 2 years hard mode but the relapses could have slowed me down a lot. What are your thoughts? Im litterally suicidal. I wanna go back to the person i felt like i was before PAWS. Do i need to do something? Just wait it out?