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P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Fenix Rising, May 12, 2019.

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  1. Big Lebowski

    Big Lebowski Fapstronaut

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    The end of the day you gotta find out what works for you this is all trial and error. We all come to our own conclusions in the end.
     
    Dave G 123 likes this.
  2. OhWhenThe

    OhWhenThe Fapstronaut

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    Did you ever get it retested?
     
  3. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    Nope, Im going to get it re-tested when I've healed
     
  4. Folks, how you will recognize that you are healed ? Asking out of curiosity, wanna see how different the views may be on this subject.
     
  5. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    When I can sleep well without medication, and despite moderate levels of background noise. Sleep has been the best indicator for me of where I am, over the years.
     
    MeTP likes this.
  6. DerJogge

    DerJogge Fapstronaut

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    The absence of symptoms and stability with-in my mood, general perception of reality and cognitive abilities.

    Over the whole healing process the stability of my whole being is like a rollercoaster. Just today I had 1-2 hours where I felt so "normal" and carefree and from one moment to the other I went back into the abyss. While I know that is PAWS - it still makes me feel very uncomfortable to know that my whole state of mind can change in a matter of seconds and me being without any influence over it. I guess thats why I avoided most social settings earlier in my recovery. It was like someone was throwing a coin whether I will be able to socialise or not and if I weren't able to and still met up with a person I always had to excuse myself for being so awkward and absent. Other people mostly knew about my predicament with PAWS but I often times felt so ashamed to just be a shadow of my actual self and overcoming that shame often cost me a lot of energy.

    I would consider myself healed when I feel a continuity in my whole being for 2-3 months in one piece. There were periods of me feeling good that lasted about 10-14 days and I felt like everything I learned and experienced in this time accumulated because my brain actually was able to learn, remember and process things that I went through. For example I had period of feeling good when I first got into music production. Learning new things about synthesizers and how drums work where just so easy to understand for me and directly went into my longterm-memory and I was able to reach this knowledge without any effort. Out of the blue this phase of feeling good stopped and I kept trying to learn new things and it was such a mess to learn the simplest things like adding some shortcuts to my MIDI-keyboard and I literally felt retarded for not being able to follow a simple 5 step guide. When I woke up the next day and wanted to the same thing with different shortcuts again, I had to go through the whole guide another time because I forgot everything. I didn't know where to start, what folder I need to copy this or that. Normally I'm quite technique-affine which makes things even worse. I could learn a complex drum pattern without any effort a few days before but struggled to follow a 5 step guide that a 10 year old could learn in one minute.

    Continuity of a normal functioning of my brain and body AND good sleep which seems like the last chapter to resolve itself if my estimation and observation from other peoples recovery story is right.
     
  7. wfcasdvwervdsv

    wfcasdvwervdsv Fapstronaut

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    Has that social awkwardness and absence which you felt in early recovery alleviated at all?
    Also, do you still feel like a shadow of yourself or are you feeling more like yourself now compared to early recovery?
    If these things did get better please could you give a timeframe :)
     
  8. Kningb

    Kningb Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for this post Don! It has answered all my questions from the confusion in the previous posts and given me that much needed sense of perspective and hope!!
    I wish you all the best and thank you for your thorough explanations! You are of great value to us all here :)
     
  9. sikreodds97

    sikreodds97 Fapstronaut

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    Is anyone else kind of sick with people calling Nofap and semen retention a cult and woo woo? Before my flatline semen retention litterally gave me the most insane female magnetism and joy that ive ever felt even before PMO. Checked reddit and the semen retention subreddit has nearly 100.000+ people who experience the exact same. Just because modern science cant explain everything yet it simply has to be untrue or in our heads. People are litterally so close minded and do everything the media and big pharma tell them too because that is how we are programmed. Told my buddy about Semen retention some years back and he hit me up a year after thanking me saying how female magnetism was insane for him and how the entire thing changed his life(he only PMO'ed once a week before that) I just wanna say that everyone who is on this path is doing something insanely great with your lives. Doesnt really matter if you are all in semen retention or just on the anti porn side. We are real men who dare question our reality and the things we have been taught and let EXPERIENCE guide our way. The average man masturbates away, looks at porn, and never question his reality and if suffering really is from the programming he has been taught at a young age. Hope this makes sense, i just had to get it out there.

    I think people think Nofap and semen retention "superpowers" is crazy because that is what we have been taught. We litterally never realise that our entire system is dependant on US the people and our money and energy. Massive respect to the truth seekers out there!
     
    Brain Fog, Kningb and MeTP like this.
  10. DerJogge

    DerJogge Fapstronaut

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    I would say that social awkwardness mostly left but I am not sure about this as I barely have any social interactions in the last months because of covid and my father being a high-risk-person. But from my overall experience my social anxiety greatly reduced. I feel mostly confident in social settings and I no longer feel anxient when being inside of a shop or supermarket. It's not a hostile enviroment for me any more. Although I'm still far away from feeling completely normal and fine being in public.

    To be honest, yes I still feel like a shadow of myself as I knew my own potential and capabilities when my brain is working right. There was a time in 2014 where I didn't use drugs, drink barely any alcohol and my PMO addiction wasn't present at all. I just felt so connected to the universe and my brain just operated how it should be. I experienced this state several times through my recovery for very short periods of time but I know that this state of brain is out there and possible to reach. On the other side I feel way better compared to the start of my recovery. Anxiety was out of control as everything else. For the timeframe I can't make any precise statements. I would say that around the 12 month mark I feel noticed that I feel better compared to the 6 month mark and at the 14 month mark I noticed that I'm way better then at the 12 month mark but subjectively and without the time dimension I still feel shit symptoms wise if you ask me at the moment.
     
  11. gangstaLjos

    gangstaLjos Fapstronaut

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    Beautiful post man. Take care.
     
  12. I don't know what I did to my brain but I'm less than 2 weeks away from 15 months and I don't feel like I've made any progress. No relapses, nothing. Feeling as shitty as ever. Very much down in the dumps right now. It's wrecking my sleep and my ability to be a human. I'm pretty damn scared. I can't believe this is my life. I really can't. It's surreal. Just suffering day after day after day. Alone. No desire to be around others. Constant fire in my brain. I hate it so much. I really have nothing positive to say right now. It's been like this for 2 weeks straight. No let-up, except for random 2 hour bursts of not feeling completely fucking miserable. That's all I ask for these days--to not feel completely awful.
     
    DerJogge and Freeddom_Taker like this.
  13. Kningb

    Kningb Fapstronaut

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    Keeping going man! Things will improve the longer you stay away from PMO!
    Also remember it’s often darkest before just before dawn :)
     
    DerJogge and Freeddom_Taker like this.
  14. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    All I can say is that I can relate to the constant misery. I had a couple of weeks where things seemed to pick up marginally, but now I'm as bad as I ever have been. I've not been going for as long as you, but still, four months is a long time to see zero overall improvement. Just remember, there are other people who have gone through this, and there is absolutely nothing to be gained by ever PMO'ing again, so all we can do is keep on going. Good luck and keep at it.
     
    Brain Fog and Freeddom_Taker like this.
  15. I can feel your pain man... Just keep going!
    I'm 3 years in PAWS and slowly coming out. The first 2 years were insanely brutal especially when the symptoms were at their peak.
     
  16. The thing that's tough is that you'd think that after such a treacherous month you'd get some kind of major reward for your troubles, but with this shit, that doesn't necessarily happen. You get rewarded by a couple decent days, maybe a week. At least that's how it's been for me.

    I guess the ultimate reward will be worth it, but make no mistake, I'm not a happy person right now. I'd be lying if I attempted to appear optimistic. I'm not going to relapse or anything, but I'm just tired of being this fucking stupid/depressed/angry/fatigued/anti-social/pained/stagnant.

    After two straight weeks of very difficult days, I can't help but feeling run-down. I've been ground into a nub.

    I just wish, above all, that I didn't feel this alienated from the world. But not many people can relate to my day-to-day. I kind of gave up on telling people too many details because nothing hurts more than to feel misunderstood or, worse, seen as weak or some kind of dramatist.

    I, the past two years, learned that the only person I can truly count on is myself. My younger brother is a good man who listens well, but he has his own stuff going on.

    People in my life have told me that they'd be there for me without judgement whenever I asked, but they don't have the same amount of patience for this as we do. Or I should just say people in my life. I'm not speaking for everyone. But yeah, it just feels like they reach a point where they say "he should be better by now". Or maybe I'm projecting a little bit, but I don't think so. So much communication occurs underneath words themselves. It's a vibe.

    I know a big sticking point for Don was his decline in cognitive ability. I feel him on that. I'm so fucking dumb right now it's insane. I'm at like 30% capacity. This shit has me doubting my intelligence. It has me doubting everything--nothing is stable. I have no identity, really. I'm just the guy who is doing what he can to get through these PAWs.

    This is a sad message, but what can I do. I'm sad right now. No use hiding it, or painting the turd gold.
     
  17. Kningb

    Kningb Fapstronaut

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    I felt like this just before christmas! And over the festive period I felt better and still do now even after. I think spending lots of time in nature away from work and around positive people helped me forget about the things circling around in my head.
    I don't know where you live whether it be in a city and if you work a lot of hours per week, but a change of scene can really help and it was what I needed. I'm not saying I'm free of PAWS but having so time away from the normal routine really helped!
     
  18. DerJogge

    DerJogge Fapstronaut

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    Zander let me give you a big hug...I feel you so much buddy. The last weeks feel exactly the way you describe it. I promise you - you're not alone in this one! I'm with you and I know this feeling of being completely alone, like really really alone. You talked about how you can only rely on yourself for now and that's exactly what you should aim for. Become your best friend, your best buddy. Comfort yourself by knowing that you can withstand any pain and no matter what you always be there for you. Realize your own self-worth. You're fighting a battle for a better future and you should be really proud of yourself man. Sometimes the war going on blinds you from all the good things.

    I also understand this feeling of not making any progress and I'm getting bombarded with urges and cravings lately. So intense, it feels like cravings in the first few weeks of stopping. Tonight I even dreamed of buying amphetamines and meeting up with old dealer buddies. There is a fundamental process going on and my brain seems to be repairing big time. I said this so many times before but the only positive things about having symptoms is the fact that you know that your brain is healing.

    This is no coincidence that we both experience symptoms like that while feeling we make no progress at all. There is something going on at the 15-16 month mark. Back when me and my father were jogging he told me about the difficulties of running a marathon (42km). He said the first 30 km are fairly easy if you are trained well enough but the real battle starts at the 30 km mark. Every movement starts to feel so heavy and slow at this point. Your mind starts to protest and wants you to stop. It's because the body has used all its glycogenic resources or in other words: your brain used all the carbs available in the whole body and thus has to solely rely on its fat depots for generating energy. Fat has a lot of energy to deliver but the process itself is very slow and the switch to it causes this tremendous blockage wall. I'm trying to see this current phase as the 30 km mark. There is something going on that we are unaware off and I stopped searching for answers with my mind for quite some time now. I go day to day, just surviving, keeping everything in tact and when I have a few minutes of just not feeling completely awful I'm sitting my ass down and try to make music. I actually was able to stretch this phase of feeling good to a few hours and managed to build a really nice tune which I'm hearing in an endless when I feel really really bad.

    Keep going zander. I know it deep down in my heart that this shit will be over and that our investment will pay out until then know that there is another stranger outside in the world fighting the exact same battle of loneliness and dedication. Stay strong buddy.

    In those really dark times I found that spiritual things help me a lot. You maybe wanna try out to go on youtube and listen to some alan watts videos. Just lay down in bed, try to relax and listen to his voice and know that the universe which includes yourself will be alright.
     
  19. I like the marathon metaphor because there are most definitely phases to this thing. Just because I'd made it 10 months didn't mean I was prepared, psychologically, for 12, etc. etc. New challenges arise with every passing day. In fact, though I'm most likely more than halfway through this experience, I've never felt pessimistically as I do now. I think a part of me believed that it wouldn't actually take 2 years for me to feel like a human, let alone a happy one. But as I approach the 15 month mark, I'm now realizing that it will indeed take ~2 years for me to be serviceable.

    I still spend most of my day prone, or sitting, doing what I can to make time go by. There isn't much enjoyment. And when you add a lack of sleep, a fucked up sleep pattern that has me waking up at 12 p.m. at night, the winter, COVID, loneliness, then you get where I'm at today: depressed. I can't even play video games most days. That's how bad it is.

    I hope you're right and that this is the toughest part of the marathon, but I'm not optimistic that it is. I think I'll just have to live this kind of life for another 8-10 months.

    I'm just not optimistic. I've been clobbered so hard by these symptoms the past 2+ weeks that I'm just not. I don't enjoy life right now. But thanks for trying to cheer me up.

    It'll go away eventually, but this accumulated pain and hurt is doing a number on my spirit right now. I hope I can recover from all of this.
     
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  20. DerJogge

    DerJogge Fapstronaut

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    I also had the hope that it won't take the full two years for me to recover but once I swallowed that pill things became easier. While it could be possible to live with that reality for another 8-10 months you shouldn't be to hard on yourself. There is a certain psychological mechanism setting in when a person experiences tremendous amounts of suffering: the brain projects the current state of mind and suffering in the here and now onto the longterm future to better prepare you for going through painful experiences. It sort of simulates a very negative future to protect itself of unexpected negative events so you can already deal with the negative emotions before they are triggered and caused by an event in the actual reality. While this might be helpful in certain situations it isn't helpful in our situation from my perspective. YES, it's very important to be aware of the possibility that this intensity of the suffering might be held at that level but there is also the chance of things getting easier at a certain point and you holding onto a future right now that never arrives in the way your brain currently simulates it. So try your best to be open for both possibilities, good AND bad! But I also know that this is very hard to do while being in the midst of pure misery and depression. Just give yourself a little perspective.

    Another advice would be to maintain a good sleep hygiene and I'm not telling you this from a the point of having a good sleep hygiene but from my current experience that as soon as I start to go to bed later then 11:00 pm my overall well being drastically goes down the drain. I know its so freaking hard to get a good sleep schedule started and many times I failed but I come back to trying it as I realized its importance by now.
     

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