Get educated, get tools, and learn to love withdrawals

I know that this link is already here somewhere; I just thought I would add it to the heap of educational resources that William started this thread with. I listen to it frequently and it has helped me understand why I need to quit P.

http://yourbrainonporn.com/your-brain-on-porn-series

 

Just read your last post William, very thought provoking, thank you.

Now I admit anything I write just now is particularly off the cuff (and done on a jumpy screened phone) and so these are only quick suggestions and contributions etc (although knowing me it will probably end up about 10 pages long!!)

There's a brilliant researcher called Brene Brown whose initial primary research was on shame etc and when discussing this she was often asked to talk about 'how tos' because people found the shame stuff uncomfortable and off-putting. After much research (and man this woman is THOROUGH!!) she eventually realised that no matter how much we know 'how to' do something until we tackle what she refers to as 'the things that get in the way' we are going to find (without realising it) that our route/map (however clearly defined) will be 'blocked' and we will make very little, if any, real progress in the direction of our dreams.

And I guess these 'things that get in the way' (shame, fear, not feeling worthy, situations/scenarios conducive to PMO, even lack of understanding the problem etc etc) are not the same as the 'why's' (health, relationships, wishing to disengage with porn/addiction etc etc) so, to me at least, there's a kind of trio of 'things' we need to be considering...

1. 'Why' we want to stop

2. Establishing and removing 'the things that get in the way'

3. 'How to' stop and STAY stopped

And please bear in mind I am not, and would not want to, disagree with anything you say as your post is more than relevant etc. Your approach has worked for you and your posts have helped both yourself and others, including myself.

I guess looking at the above three points...

1. 'Why?' would include the wanting to improve our character etc and generally considering how our actions effect both ourselves and others etc and to me these are the fuel (enthusiasm, passion) that we fill our 'tank' with as we commence and continue on our journey.

2. 'The things that get in the way' would be (to continue the vehicle analogy) like removing any obstacles in the road that not only block our progress but that prevent us from making any real progress in the first place.

3. 'How to'- to me these are most effective when you have the fuel (enthusiasm) provided by 1. and have removed as many obstacles as you can at the beginning of the journey (and yes, there will be more on the way, including temptation, rationalisation, withdrawals etc etc)

So to me I guess its a kind of holistic approach that covers all the essentials of a successful journey (and the more thorough we are with each point the better chance of sustained success?)

I guess that the first two points are about 'preperation' and as I know you agree 'those who fail to plan plan to fail' etc. But as we have also discussed and agreed we have to be prepared and on our toes at all times (especially in the beginning) or as the saying goes, 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilance' (this also reminds me of a Chinese proverb, 'in a race of 100 miles 99 is only half way')

Once prepared and prepared to maintain vigilance we tackle the how to's and I think I agree that the more our journey is narrowed down to quitting this one thing our focus becomes more 'laser' like. (another Chinese proverb is, 'If you chase two rabbits at the same time, you will not catch either of them.) And I guess my own interpretation of that is it's probably wise not to quit drinking, smoking, burgers and PMO all at once as that increases the risk of biting off way more than we can chew (obviously that's just an example and this, as with everything else I've said, is different for each individual and I, like yourself I guess, am simply attempting to convey the 'essence' of a particular approach whilst also 'comparing notes' etc).

Interestingly I just read about a study in a brilliant book I've just started reading about change called 'Switch' by Chip and Dan Heath in which a bunch of participants were presented with a plate of fresh warm cookies and a plate of cold radishes. Half of the group were allowed to eat only the cookies and the other half only the raddishes. After this they we're given a series of puzzles (that were actually un-solvable) and it was found that the participants who were allowed the cookies lasted twice as long attempting to solve the puzzles that the participants who had only been allowed to eat the radishes. It was concluded that 'resolve' is exhaustible as those who had not needed any resolve in the first part of the experiment (were allowed to eat the cookies) had more resolve than those who had 'burnt' some up resisting the radishes (and who therefore gave up quicker)

So yes, we do need to be mindful of the potential pitfalls of spreading ourselves too thin.

This links into the idea of getting educated (preperation) as Chip and Dan Heath also state that 'what looks like resistance is often a lack of clarity'(preparation, a clear road, and 'know-how'?)

They also state that we each have two sides, the emotional and rational (and they come up with some amazingly helpful ideas on that but would take too long to explain now, I'm hoping aron will chip in as I know he is also reading this)

In this context I would suggest that the philosophical/spiritual/abstract/right brain/emotional approach (I am not religious in an 'organised' way but I do believe in what I consider to be whole/holistic approaches etc) can contribute to our reasons (whys), helping us find the strength/enthusiasm (energy, I'm VERY much into sexual energy transmutation and increasingly into meditation since I came here) to remove/work with obstacles, and can even help us define 'how' we are going to make and sustain the necessary changes.

But we also need to balance the above with the practical/pragmatic/left brain/logical side to help equally with all of the above whilst ensuring we stay grounded, focused, organised, disciplined etc etc

Apparently (and this is from the Switch' book, there's a guy called Johnathan Haidt who came up with the analogy that the 'emotional' side is like an elephant and the 'rational' side is like the elephants rider. Sitting on the elephant the rider holds the reigns and seems to be the leader. But the riders control is precarious because the rider is so small compared to the elephant. Anytime the huge elephant and the tiny rider disagree about which direction in which to go the rider is going to lose. They suggest that the best way to ensure successful change is to...

1. Direct the Rider (the logical/left brain side) by ensuring it has crystal clear instructions (how to etc)

2. Motivate the Elephant (the emotional/right brain side)because they say what 'looks like laziness is often exhaustion' so you have to keep the 'elephant' engaged and enthusiastic etc.

3. Shape the Path- in other words what looks like a 'people' problem is often a 'situation' problem so when you 'shape the path'/change your 'environment' etc you make change more likely.

Anyways I'm going to leave it there because I'm in danger of confusing things and my only desire is to add helpful suggestions etc.

Just to quickly say though I too have considered hanging up my NoFap boots as I've got too much else that I need to focus on but I just keep dipping in (I can't help myself!) so, for me at least I guess it's about balance (as is all of the above!) It's bizarre, I've never used a forum in my life so it feels weird being in a 'community' who share so much of ourselves with people we will never really know or meet and silly as it might sound I for one would 'miss' you William even though we will all leave eventually and any two of us could be sat next to each other in an internet café having a conversation and neither one of us would even know who the other one was!!

Have you seen this yet, you would love it (watch out for the bit where the girl is 'reunited' with her boyfriend)!!...http://www.nofap.org/forum/showthread.php?3500-Southpark-hilarious-must-watch!!

 

William - Thank you for the post and taking the time to respond to mine. I am glad that you responded to my post in the Newbies section and directed me here. The truth of the matter is for me (and I suspect many of us) there is not a lot of support out there. My buddies don't see a problem and think it strange that I have come to hate porn... and to hate what it has done to me over the years.

My PMO was like the journey of 1000 miles... it began with one step, then another, then another, and so on until where I am now and my PMO is something I never ever would have chosen to do. But, as you say, that dopamine is the thing.

Thank you for your support and your story. It is hard to remember that the journey back starts with one step as well.

Arpy

 

I wanted to see Gabor's video presentation before I posted this, and had to ponder a while about William's point of view.

I agree with William that is extremely important to have the "know how". I tried quitting PMO several times over the years and never managed to do it because I was lacking the knowledge on how to actually porn. But this time I had the knowledge, the know how, of how to actually do it. And it helped. The biggest breakthrough was understanding "how I become addicted". And once I knew the answer to that question it became obvious "how to conquer this addiction".

To refresh our minds (mine included) the story goes like this. Dopamine is the hormone of novelty and anticipation. It makes us excited when we are expecting novelty. And this loophole is being exploited by internet porn. With their vast content it has the potential to keep us excited about the "next" big thing we will discover in terms of porn. It is not the actual process of looking at porn that makes us happy, but the search for it. How come that people who actually download the porn rarely go back to seeing it again? The novelty factor wore off. They know what to expect from a particular movie so the novelty of it is gone, and thus is the interest for it. But the internet is so vast that you never know what you will find. And with 11,000 porn movies produced a year, we could watch porn movies for one year and still there would be things unseen. The potential for damage is huge. This excitement transforms into arousal, as the images are sexual in nature. This is fine. The problem is that there is an over-release of dopamine. The brain needs dopamine, we need to get excited about stuff. Without dopamine we wouldn't be motivated to go and eat and most likely we would starve to death (this experiment was done on rats). And this over-release of dopamine is changing the structure of the brain, which is not used to such strong dopamine. There is a normal level of dopamine that the brain is expecting. The same way that there is a normal level of blood pressure, or other health parameters in the body. Quitting porn addiction is about bringing the dopamine levels back to normal in our brains.

Again, having the know how of quitting porn is of immense help. But this is only at the intellectual level. One should be also engaged at the emotional level. And engaging the emotional can be done in multiple ways: being afraid of losing wife/kids, afraid of developing ED, desire to become a better man, losing virginity. To use the metaphor jiltedjohn used, about the rider on the elephant, the rider is the intellect while the elephant is the emotional part. We need to engage both of them. If the elephant is not properly motivated then no matter what the rider will do the elephant will go wherever he wants. It is not enough to know that porn can induce ED, its imperative to be also scared because of this. To make an analogy, a smoker won't quit cigarettes even though the know's they are unhealthy, but if he has a heart attack and the doctor says that unless he stops he will have another heart attack soon, he will surely quit. This happened with my grandfather. There should also be an emotional reason to quit. It doesn't matter what this emotion is, there must be at least one. I am not trying to disregard the how part, the intellect, the rider, must also know how to do it. Both, the intellectual (the know how) and the emotional (motivation) must be engaged. Engaging just one of them is not enough.

Regarding the video, Gabor makes a good point when he says that drugs are not addictive per se, as there are some people who try them and don't get addicted. There is a similar situation with other addictions, like food, alcohol, cigarettes, or any other kind of activity. Not all people who eat food become overeaters, not all people who drink alcohol become alcoholic, not all people who try cigarettes become smokers. The truth is that the people who become addicted have a vulnerability. And this vulnerability or predisposition for addiction is not genetic, but is "nurtured", it has been acquired.

But quitting PMO is not enough. The truth of the matter is that there is a vulnerability in us, a predisposition for addictive behaviors. And while we might conquer PMO, there is high chance that we will acquire another addiction. It is not uncommon to hear stories of drug or alcohol addicts to quit their addiction just to take up a "lighter" form of addiction, like cigarettes. Conquering PMO is a noble effort but we must also find the root of the cause and also work there. As the proverb goes "For every 1000 men hacking at the branches there is one person hacking at the roots" (from memory, check jiltedjohn's posts for the exact proverb). We need to also become the person who is attacking the problem at its roots.

I don't think that porn addiction has anything different from any form of addiction, regarding the effects on the brain. Yes, from the outside it looks totally different from other addictions, in the way it manifests itself. But the neurological mechanism is the same. And as Gabor says, addictions are used to relieve pain. This pain is most of the times psychological, but it also can be physical (think of people who get addicted to painkillers). This psychological pain, is in fact an emotional pain, and is caused by trauma, that most likely happened in childhood. This trauma can have multiple causes, which range from sexual abuse to physical or emotional neglect. As long as we don't try to "heal" the pain somehow one will always look for ways to "kill" it, or at least numb the pain. And addictions are just behaviours that we repeatedly use to numb ourselves. And by repeating them with such high frequency, we go from using the name activity to abusing it.

I do believe that there should be a holisitic approach. But, and there is a huge but, everything must be timed perfectly; it must be done in the right sequence, at the right time. In the beginning one should focus all of his efforts trying to understand the porn addiction, learning the ways to fight it and actually fight it. I do, and quite strongly, agree with William that people who come here should focus just on quitting PMO. But I believe that the fight doesn't stop here, and once conquered porn addiction one should refocus it's energy on the root cause. The same way that the definition of porn, in regards to what can cause triggers, changes over time whether we are PMOing, quitting PMO or quit PMO, also our focus and energy needs to be directed at different things at different moments in time.

I don't blame anyone for becoming porn addicted. I don't blame the porn industry. I also don't blame my parents for not telling me about the powerful grip and the effects of internet porn can have over me. They had no idea. At that time, no one had any idea. It's like starting to smoke when you are young but nobody tells you to watch out because it can become addictive. Then you grow up and realise that you are a smoker and can't stop. It's the same story with porn. A lack of knowledge and a predisposition is what led us down the path. If we all knew (the boys at least) that there is chance of developing ED from internet porn, I think we would have ran away from it like from the devil. All I can do is educate others and my kids so they won't fall into this trap.

William, I will miss you dearly when you will leave this site. The same thing goes also for you jiltedjohn.
You guys have been an inspiration and without you I wouldn't have made it so far. Your insights and encouragements were a blessing. It is funny how I came to write such long posts. I have never been as active on a forum as I have been on this one.

 

Yes the proverb 'if you chase two rabbits at the same time you will not catch either of them' keeps springing to mind and yes, there has to be an overall 'holistic' approach but its all in the timing/sequence.

I guess Steven Covey sums this approach up in 'the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People' which are (very briefly and off the top of my head)

1. Be proactive- as opposed to re-active. Be response-able rather than a victim etc. This lays the foundation for change having made the decision to make necessary changes etc

2. Begin with the end in mind- know where you want to go, what you want to achieve etc. Have a vision. Shape the path etc.

3. Put first things first- chase one rabbit at a time . Then the next, and the next etc etc...the first 'rabbit' being to stop using porn and rebooting our minds/bodies etc. This is the primary purpose of this site I guess. I said primary as opposed to only though as I believe it also serves to illuminate the other habits/steps -reasons for change, how to change, political considerations (and I mean political in the broadest possible sense of the word which I personally consider very important) I also think this site is a good place to share the many possible alternatives to PMO but I guess that's part of the primary purpose of actually stopping PMO? Or is ALL of this simply part of the process of stopping (motivating the Elephant? Or is decision analasys halting the Rider?)) I guess I'm a little confused the more I think about it?? (I'm reminded of a line from Paul Wellers 'the Changing Man, "the more I see, the more I know, the more I know, the less I understand!)

In fact I'm only going to mention the first 3 because according to Covey they constitute the 'private victory' which must be 'won' before we approach 'public victory' which involves 4. Think win/win 5. Seek first to understand, then be understood 6. Synergise 7. Sharpen your saw...

So yes I guess to me the most effective 'journey'/route is one that engages the rational with the emotional (including humour) and even 'spiritual' depending on the individual beliefs and/or their interpretation of that element. Has been well planned (preperation) Chases one rabbit at a time, and understands the vital importance of maintenance (staying stopped) and even the concept of full recovery (rather than being 'in recovery' indefinitely)???

Anyway this is in danger of getting longwinded and my battery is going on my phone which is also serving as a reminder that its way past my bedtime

 

Thank you for great insight! As for me my problem is I alway relapse when I am home alone with the computer, or when I have have bad mood like anxiety, stress, or depressed! Your article really give me the insight about my addiction! It funny how my family member has set password for the iPad for me, so I can prevent myself watching porn, but when I have mood problem, I would lie to my family member to unlock the password for me to do schoolwork, but I was actually watching porn! I just ned to work with my urges, like you say it a dopamine rush that seek for fulfillment! Thank you William!

 

P.S. it just occurred to me how incredibly relevant Coveys steps/habits 4, 5, 6&7 are (see above) in the context of this site?

4. Think win win. To come here in a spirit of cooperation
5. Seek first to understand others then to be understood. Be receptive to learning first, we might be pleasantly surprised at what others can show us, things we had never considered before etc. Then share our perspective etc?
6. Synergise- having done the above, entered into a spirit of receptive cooperation synergise our collective ideas for the greater good of all.
7. Sharpen your saw- keep learning and growing. Dont become complacent . Stay vigilant etc

 

Very inspiring and helpful!

 

Brilliant post. Your suggested educational materials need to be front and center on this site.

 

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/what-does-withdrawal-from-porn-look-like

 

this is A GREAT READ THANKYOU!

 

Thank you for this, I'm on day three and definitely in the addicted category, trying to get my mind in an embracing mode for the withdrawals that are surely on their way

 

Cheers bro! awesome post

 

Excellent informative post.
Thanks William

I am addict to PM from decade and found this post very helpful.Keep sharing the information to all.

 

great very interesting !

 

William, really appreciate your posts here. Copy/Saved them all and going to use it as a Worksheet of daily stuff to read/view to keep my NoFap progressing successfully! Take care and thanks again! Jeff