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The contradiction of the relationship - Perspective

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by eagle rising, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. eagle rising

    eagle rising Fapstronaut

    So a women cheats on her man. What is the man the to do? According to PAs, many of them from what I recently saw, the man should leave immediately. It is said by these "men" that there is no chance for anything good in the relationship anymore. (Note that I don't condone cheating I just have a problem with contradictions.) These men feel deeply for the man that has been cheated on, understandably. I feel the same.

    Here's where it doesn't make sense to me. The PA chooses to PMO even though they have a partner right there where they can connect and enjoy their sexual desires. The SO finds out, and it hurts them deeply, from what I gather, on the same order of cheating, physically, from their perspective. But, men don't seem to have the sense of that hurt. They try and try to defend his actions endlessly. Shouldn't the woman just leave right away, like how they advocate the man to leave? I, personally, do not advocate that they should leave, it is much more nuanced than that, and that's not what I am saying here. What I am saying is that the sentiments are skewed depending on the gender. And I don't believe it should be that way.

    Many PA men don't care to view the woman's perspective. They wish and beg for forgiveness. But, when they are transgressed they care not for any forgiveness. That is very child like. They want the women to understand that it is hard to stop those urges. They want the women to give them a chance to grow. But, the other way around, on the receiving end, they say its over, right then and there. No chance. She messed up and that's it! No talking, no trying to understand her perspective, her urges, etc.

    I am asking, is it healthy to expect one thing from yourselves and something totally different from others?
     
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  2. Slimjimjones

    Slimjimjones Fapstronaut

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    Well I think there is a severe and fundamental difference from going out of your way to sleep with another person than watching porn, not that porn is ok. Watching someone get killed on camera is different than real life, but I do see the perspective you're coming from. Porn is a form of self pleasure that is just seen more as disgusting while sleeping with another person is seen as treacherous. Most likely has to do with how our brain works and interacts with the internet.

    In conclusion I think cheating in person is the more heinous sin but both shouldn't be done in a relationship.
     
    TheForsakeen likes this.
  3. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    Whether you steal intimacy from your wife by giving it to another woman or yourself by masturbation, betrayal is betrayal no matter how you try to justify it.
     
  4. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    We see it as disgusting, yes, but we also see it as cheating. Physically cheating. As far as we are concerned, the PA stepped outside the marriage and cheated with the women they PMO to.
    In some ways, PMO is worse than a physical affair because the other woman is with the man all the time, whether it be on their phones or in their heads. With a physical affair, the relationship could be cut off and cut out of the lives of the people involved. With P it is more difficult because it has wired the brain to all sorts of triggers. To overcome the addiction, the entire routine of the addict and the SO has to be flipped around and changed. Things and places avoided due to triggers. It is life consuming for all involved.
    This is the perspective of most SO's who struggle with PA's. Everyday we have to wonder if the PA is going to choose to cheat or choose to be faithful. Everyday we struggle between wanting to support and encourage our husbands and wanting to break down. We struggle with how we look, how we act, how worthy we feel while the PA is in recovery. Our entire lives are turned upside down.
    Cheating is cheating.
     
  5. Slimjimjones

    Slimjimjones Fapstronaut

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    Yeah I can understand that, just wish porn wasn't normalized so that people think it's healthy, that's probably why it's not always seen as bad, because it's so common, which sucks. I couldn't necessarily relate though since I was never really an addict nor a woman dealing with that stuff.

    Thanks for your thoughts
     
    DefendMyHeart likes this.
  6. omegasigma

    omegasigma Fapstronaut

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    At the of the day women care about how they feel towards you .
    Meaning , that they will not take the most moral or logical choice , if you made them feel this way by watching porn and getting caught , wether they should leave or not is not up to what our rational minds think they should do .
    Like i said its all about how you make her feel , and if it makes feel so hurt or betrayed that she has to leave then it has to be tthat way .
    Also keep in mind that Pa are experts in picking up women and sleeping with them , when it comes to relationship they fail or at least most of them , so i would take thier view on this with a grant of salt .
     
  7. I don't see the contradiction you see and I am surprised I differ from the other SOs here. I know women who couldn't care less if their boyfriend/husband gets aroused by other women's appearance, in public or on screen. Everyone's definition of cheating is different. There is no objective way of cheating. And I personally have always been very extreme in my level of commitment. Flirting with another man to me means I am betraying the connection I have with my SO through flirting with him. Looking at another man with desire means betraying the connection I have with my SO through looking at him with desire. If there is a man in a movie or ad who is somehow sexualized, I look away. But not everyone wants to or can have such a deep level of intimacy/connection and if that's the way a couple agrees on to express their love for each other, it should be valid and respected. And objectively, I do think there are also different levels of sexual betrayal. Getting to touch another woman and being intimate with her and using her actions and reactions for sexual arousal is on a different level than looking at a picture or video and getting sexually aroused by another woman's physical appearance. One is a fantasy (that becomes real on the level that he physically reacts) the other is something that is actually happening between two people interacting with each other and fueling each other's lust with their physical company. One form of cheating is forgivable to me, the other isn't.

    Also addiction is a behavioral disorder. I suffer from social anxiety which is a mental disorder controlled by the same region in the brain that plays a role in addiction. My decision making is impaired when it comes to social interactions. I do many irrational things to protect myself from being exposed to a fearful situation. I've even lied, for example in school, when I couldn't give a presentation because I was "sick". It's still my responsibility to fix my issue and not blame anyone else but myself for my own actions. But I cannot say I am free to act the way I want to act because of a dysfunctional wiring in my brain between social situations and fear, which is caused by a genetic predisposition and environmental factors (personal trauma). If I want to order food via calling, I won't do it. I'd rather starve to death than interact with someone on the phone. I want to but I can't. I cannot make a free choice to act the way I want to act (ordering food in order to survive) because of an irrational fear being triggered in my brain. So how can I compare myself to someone who does not feel terrified of simply exchanging words with a stranger on the phone? Yes, I can make a choice to get therapy and unwire the dysfunctional connection in my brain but without that, my brain is not healthy and can't make healthy choices when it comes to social interactions. An addict not choosing recovery because of loss of control over rational brain function is not comparable to someone who does not suffer from addiction. Yes, they are still responsible for choosing or not choosing recovery, but to me it just seems obvious that even if choice is involved, it's impaired by a physical/psychological loss of control over one's own actions. An SO who makes a conscious and free choice to violate a boundary is for me not the same as an addict violating a boundary. And to me it seems like many SOs here are proof of that concept because they did choose to stay, when infidelity is probably the most common reason for divorce/break up in *non* addicted couples. I chose to stay with my boyfriend because a) I can forgive an affair with virtual women and b) I can believe in his trust without the addiction. If my boyfriend wasn't a porn addict and chose to still watch porn behind my back, I'd leave him. Because he willingly broke my trust and to me, breaking of trust is unforgivable and incompatible with love because it makes one paranoid all the time, as I've had to find out. If my boyfriend was a sex addict, I'd leave him too because a physical affair for is me unforgivable. It wouldn't have anything to do with trust that could be repaired provided that the addiction would be dealt with, but according to my definition of love, a physical affair cannot happen, and I wouldn't want to be with someone who wouldn't love me back the same way I love them. So I think the decision to leave would be dependent on the level of pain from sexual or emotional betrayal and then trust being willingly broken is really the decisive factor. And both factors are individual and dependent on a person's definition of love, forgiveness and commitment.

    I think I am overcomplicating things here, but what I am trying to say is that people who happen to be porn addicts having a strong opinion about someone willingly physically cheating in a relationship is no contradiction to me. If my boyfriend feels like his needs are not met in the relationship, he has to talk to me, as I can't read his mind. If then I am unable or unwilling to respect his needs, he can leave the relationship. What's the point of continuing the relationship unhappy and doing something behind my back, breaking my trust? That makes no sense at all. And there is no excuse and moving on from that. At least for me. And for many other people, addicted or not.
     
  8. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I think what the OP is getting at is that not one single person took the time to try and figure out more about the girlfriend, rather, jumped on the "leave her" boat for violating the boundaries of the relationship.
    We know nothing about her. Is she a SA? Is she a PA? No one knows. We know that he is and that she doesn't know he is a PA.
    That is where the contradiction comes into play. If a PA engages in a physical affair, it is more likely that they will see that as part of the addiction and wish for forgiveness. However, if it were the woman that was a PA and did the same, the physical affair would more likely be the focus, which was sorta the case in that thread. No one asked anything about her before condemning her.

    I think it would be healthier for all of us to try and understand different points of view, honestly. One of my kids also suffers from anxiety in a similar way that you do and it is very difficult for people who do not have that condition to understand what the other person is going through.
     
    eagle rising likes this.
  9. tonyk1982

    tonyk1982 Fapstronaut

    All women should leave their porn addict husbands/partners. Why do they stay? As I read here, more often than not SO's of PA's are putting themselves through hell by staying in the relationship. Comparing themselves to porn star looks, revolted by the sexual acts their husbands were addicted to watching and feeling inferior because they won't perform such acts with their husbands, always dealing with the continued relapses and lies of the addict - read the SO section for examples. Yet, people are attracted to their partners for many reasons, some of which are deep-rooted from family of origin issues or past relationship history and thus can be subconscious. When D-day of a PMO addict happens it should not come as a surprise, just like when an affair is discovered. Only those SO's who have very healthy emotional well-beings get out right away. The rest are trying to fix their own broken selves in some way and are willing to accept the human frailties of their partners in the process.
     
  10. eagle rising

    eagle rising Fapstronaut

    I am surprised you don't see porn addiction as cheating. You seem to be drawing some very blurry lines here that absolutely will not work if you switch the roles, this is my point.

    "This aspect of the relationship is reality and that aspect is fantasy, but that second aspect is reality as well...but they are totally different." I really don't know what you are trying to convey here but it sounds to me like you are drawing boundaries in such a way that you won't feel hurt from your SOs actions. Please forgive me, but your social anxiety might have a role to play in this.

    First of all, none of this has anything to do with what I shared in my OP. You provided some views about porn addiction as a behavioral disorder and in comprison to a mental disorder such as yours but it neither negates nor corroborates what I was conveying. I really don't know what you are trying to say here either, but okay.

    You weren't even talking about my point. You were, what seems to me, expressing your troubles with your relationship with you PA partner. I mean, that is all well and good, but it doesn't help what I was saying.

    Okay, the way you stated this, which is nowhere near what I said in my OP, makes it seem like it is benign. What are the implications of the "strong opinion"? That's a rhetorical question, by the way. Also, try taking someone else's perspective, for instance, the SOs here. Just because you described how you look at pornography in the context of cheating doesn't say anything about the nature of the contradiction that I mentioned. You will never find any contradiction so long as you don't except anyone else's perspective. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

    This right here is probably the closest you have come to my point. This is my point. There is no "talk to her". There is just, "leave her"! As I stated I don't condone cheating, but there is absolutely no room for anything according to these guys. There is some growth to be had in infidelity. A bunch of PAs lost in their fantasy world, turned reality, all of a sudden become the experts in cheating. There is no, "did you ask her why?" There is no, "did she know about your addiction." No introspection, nothing. Just "leave her". For all we we know, as DefenMyHeart said, she might be a PA as well.


    Am I saying forgiving her is the only option? No, that's not what I'm saying.

    What if he cheated on her? The whole thing would be totally different. How men react when men cheat on their wives has a very different flavor when their respective wife's cheat. There is hope that the women forgive them, but there is no hope for them working things out when the woman cheats. That is the contradiction I speak about.
     
  11. TheForsakeen

    TheForsakeen Fapstronaut

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    you need to hustle more and hate less.
     
  12. True-Self

    True-Self Fapstronaut

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    I think it comes down to who is posting and what type of advice they are seeking. If she made a post and said, "I'm a PA and SA and I cheated on my boyfriend should I break up with him"? I would hope that the advice would be, "Yes"! If she made a post and said, "My boyfriend is not able to have sex with me, I am attracted to someone else, should I break up with him"? I would hope the advice would be, "Yes"! If she made a post and said, "my boyfriend is a PA we can't have sex, I want to have a good sex life, should I break up with him"? , I would hope the advice given would be "Yes"!

    In this case he was asking what he should do. Given that he is apparently suffering from PA (with PIED) and his girlfriend cheated on him I agree with the advice that they should break up.
     
  13. thegeneral

    thegeneral Fapstronaut

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    If the SO views porn as cheating, she should leave. Its on her if she does not leave. We were giving the guy hard advice. I would have said the same thing to a woman if she felt like this. Most women want to fix their relationship, but if a woman felt like her man cheated, I would tell her to leave as well. It goes both ways.
     
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