SOs - Please Read "My Girlfriend Cheated On Me" Thread in Partners Support

Perhaps I am just unconsciously ignorant, but could you direct me towards a thread on this forum (unrelated to this particular context/discussion) in which PMO addicts argue that their SOs would be in the wrong for choosing to leave on the basis of PMO addiction? While my personal opinion is that PMO addiction and cheating would be equally good reasons to leave (at the very least given that the addict is not making a serious attempt to address the issue), I would be very interested in seeing evidence of people "in the wild" arguing for the opposite.

 

Unfortunately there is thread after thread after thread where addicts tell each other that if their so leaves over porn then she isn’t worth it, she doesn’t love him, and he will find someone better. It’s difficult to point to any one thread but it is a very common theme. Once a man gets into recovery is usually when the depth of damage that he has done is realized.Until then, they really don’t see it as cheating.

 

So watching movies, could you claim you have a relationship with Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt or whichever actor ?

The definition of infidelity is about having a romantic or sexual relationship with someone.

Porn is not someone, it is something, a type of material specifically. I don't think it excuses everything on the addict's part or that SO's should stay because it's not technically cheating, but saying it's the same than cheating (and that it applies to every couple and every woman) is out there. Like I said in my earlier post, lots of couples do not set porn watching as a defined boundary, whereas infidelity is.

por·nog·ra·phy
/pôrˈnäɡrəfē/
noun

1. printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings.

 

While I agree his post appears juvenile, immature and shows lack of perspective in life (and I'm no blue pill guy either), I'm finding yours to be on the same level.

I'm surprised you are a man spouting this "real men" nonsense. What is real to someone is real to someone else, also, I don't recall hearing a deep voice in the cloud proclaiming your the judge of what real men are. Let's see what we can come up with using "real men" blanket statements:

-Real men set up firm boundaries as to what they allow in their life and what they don't. If someone crosses that boundary, they respect themselves and leave
-Real men go for what they want and do not have time for people who do not respect them
-Real men know their worth and do not settle
-Real men do not give advices to other men on nofap while they could not masturbate for three days only, or could not masturbate for a month either
...

You can make these sentences go in any direction, that doesn't make them true either. Real men and real women are everyone, we all have different backgrounds, pasts, emotions and hopes, dreams, etc. We are all sometimes weak, sometimes strong. Some people can tolerate some things, while other people can't (and sometimes leaving is a proof of strength and self-respect).

So before you dismiss every men in OP's thread because they do not want to continue a relationship after infidelity and call them weak men, take a good look at yourself and whether you are godly enough to tell us what real men are.

Lastly, lots of women leave after infidelity too, that does not make them weak women either.

 

Do u think masturbating while u watch a woman masturbate in your room is cheating even if u never speak to her or touch her? Just curious. Like I told my husband , it doesn’t matter if he thinks it cheating or not. If, I have said that I view it as cheating and he continues and ends up divorced, does it really matter? If the end result of an actual affair is a loss of trust, damage to the relationship, or divorce and these are exactly the same results from your porn use, then does it matter if you view it differently?

 

There are people that DO become obsessed with actors and actresses and develop a relationship with them in that way, even though it is in their minds only.
There are people who obsess over fictional characters and develop relationships with them in that way, even though it is only in their minds.
A relationship doesn't mean two people being together.
The people who participate in P, last I checked, are real people. They are not objects on a screen. They have their own thoughts, feelings, and lives.
It is possible to develop a sexual attachment to those people. It is also possible to develop an emotional attachment to those people. In that sense, it becomes a relationship between sexual stimuli and the user of P, which breaks down to having a sexual relationship with someone outside the marriage. I dont think you'll find many SO's on here that see it otherwise.

I suppose I wasn't specific enough in this thread. What I stated in another is that a lot of SO's consider P equal to cheating. That is even why most of us are on this forum. Betrayal trauma can be used in several contexts, the most recent one being infidelity in a relationship due to P usage. I'm quite aware that boundaries are different in every relationship and there are some women who don't consider P as cheating. There are even some women that send their spouses to strip clubs and don't consider that cheating. But for the sake of the SO's on here, infidelity and P usage go hand in hand and are one in the same.

 

@Psalm27:1my light

"Like I told my husband , it doesn’t matter if he thinks it cheating or not. If, I have said that I view it as cheating and he continues and ends up divorced, does it really matter?". As far as camming (read too fast at first but now realize you are talking about cam sex with strangers), that is a real woman being so I would say yes it is cheating (and my girlfriend agrees, while porn here is not cheating in our house (but is still worth quitting)).

I completely agree with you, if you say that porn is cheating for you then it is a defined boundary and is cheating, whether he likes it or not. If he does not like it, he can either leave or stop checking porn. But if it's not defined as cheating, then the results are not the same, so it depends on who you talk to, which was my original point concering OP and the people replying.

@DefendMyHeart People obsessing over actors is a good point. In that case, I guess I was cheated on in the past. I still don't really agree it fits the classical definition of infidelity . Could you say you have a relationship with Robert De Niro even though he has never acknowledged your existence ? Even if you were writing poems to him 24h/24, I don't think you could. Or maybe you could say a one way relationship... That is a conundrum. Checking at the different definitions for the word relationship, some do prove your points and some are more ambiguous.

In either cases, when you state "I'm quite aware that boundaries are different in every relationship and there are some women who don't consider P as cheating. There are even some women that send their spouses to strip clubs and don't consider that cheating. But for the sake of the SO's on here, infidelity and P usage go hand in hand and are one in the same."

This makes absolute sense. I should be more cognizant of the fact that if SOs are here, it's most probably because they consider it cheating. I also do not want to say your feelings are arbitrary and I do wish porn would have never existed and hurt so many people.

But, I'm thinking you should also be more cognizant that people here are trying to heal and not to get bashed on and treated as if their opinions don't matter because they have/are watched porn, something a lot of fappers didn't even know was bad prior to their nofap awakening. It's as if people who have/are consumed porn are just addicts, and not people. In the original thread, the people talking there are not just addicts with minds bended by porn. They are giving their opinions on what they think is healthy for OP, that's all.

Lastly, "I'm quite aware that boundaries are different in every relationship and there are some women who don't consider P as cheating", exactly, and it would have been nice to know if OP's girlfriend considered porn as cheating. If she did not (and he was ashamed of PMO for his own reason), then she cheated and not him. If not, well I agree they both cheated. Not sure if that was mentioned.

 

Did you read my comments on that thread? Have you read my journal? I never demonized him or any other P addict. Ive stated many times in many threads and have talked to many guys on here about addressing things in their recoveries because if underlying issues are left unaddressed, relapses are inevitable. Ive spent several years studying this addiction.
If you look at my journal, you'll see that I do vent about my husbands actions, however, a lot of it is literally dedicated to figuring out more about this addiction and understanding my husband. Plus, trying to find better ways to look at recovery where it isnt so daunting. The human perspective is a major one in this journey.

People can and do develop emotional attachments to characters and in some relationships, ive seen this personally, they do consider it cheating. Just wanted to throw that out there as well

 

I think I have seen your posts from time to time but cannot recall their specific content. I had missed your reply in the original thread (was not engaged in a conversation with you back then). You were very respectful and not bashful at all. Bashful was not the right word to use, my apologies.

I should rephrase saying I felt like you were imposing your point of view that for sure, porn is cheating. I don't get why you stated in this thread you know multiple women who don't have a problem with their partners watching porn (and therefore that porn is not always cheating)but then said OP and his girlfriend both cheated (via your definition of infidelity). Unless I missed it, we do not know if not watching porn was defined as a boundary in OP's relationship.

 

I said that most SOs define it as cheating. I didn't say his did or didn't because I dont know her, therefore I cannot speak for her. However, I wanted the OP to be aware that there is that chance she could see it that way. If she does see it that way, then it is considered they both cheated. Perhaps I didn't speak what I meant clearly on that post. I am autistic and my brain goes faster than my thumbs and I dont always convey the message I'm intending. But yes, if she considers P infidelity, then in that sense, they both committed infidelity and therefore, they both have a lot of work to do with healing and recovery should they decide to stay and work it out

 

I wasn’t talking about camming. I mean would u sit and masturbate while u watch another do the same in your living room? Women and men in porn are real human beings. Why wouldn’t U sit and watch another while in your living room? What if we put a clear shower screen between the two of you? You never talk. But any time u wish, u have a stranger come into your house, and do your thing. Would u consider this cheating? No relationship, no touching, no talking, a plastic screen to separate you? How would that be any different than porn? Many would not consider that cheating but many would. In fact, if it’s agreed in a relationship, some people do not view sex with another as cheating, so long as both agree. How can someone agree or disagree if you’ve never talked about it? Which is what the majority of porn addicts do. They hide it. They lie about it. If it’s so normalized why hide it from your spouse? It’s a lie people tell themselves, it’s not really cheating, I’m not hurting anyone, it doesn’t affect anyone, it’s better than actually cheating. it’s a safer alternative to cheating. I can’t give her an std so it’s better than cheating. I do agree, if it’s not considered cheating by both parties, then and only then is it not cheating.

 

I don't understand the whole controversy about the thread in question. People expressed their opinion on a woman having sex with her long-time friend behind her boyfriend's back. Many non-addicted people would share this opinion. Infidelity is one of the most common reasons for non-addicted couples breaking up or divorcing. Should all those people be criticized because some other person chose to be forgiving when infidelity happened? Everyone has different boundaries. If someone feels like something is an unforgivable action in a relationship, then why is that not valid and only a product of toxic addict mentality? Many people break up immediately after infidelity, some people try to work it out but fail and then break up, and some people do manage to heal. Nobody is forced to torture themselves for the sake of love. That is codependency. If there is commitment and progress, sure, making some personal sacrifices in order to salvage a meaningful relationship makes sense. But it has to be a balance where someone makes an effort to fix the issue and their partner being understanding and forgiving and supportive. If it's all one sided and an SO is treated like literal trash, it's their own responsibility to take care of themselves and leave the relationship. And that sense of personal sacrifice is not the same for everyone either. Some people won't mind porn at all, some people mind it and feel hurt but can move past it. And some people feel so deeply hurt and betrayed that they just can't forgive it. Same goes for physical or emotional affairs. If the OP made clear how much of betrayal a physical affair means to him , then his girlfriend knew the weight of her actions. And besides sexual betrayal, trust was broken as well which is the foundation of any relationship and, in my opinion, not repairable and not forgivable (addiction for me is the only exception, because without addiction there is a person I know I can trust). So I don't understand how the concept of physical infidelity and betrayal of trust, love and intimacy not being forgivable is such a shocking opinion.

 

The only controversy is the dichotomy between advice given to addicts like myself and advice given to the OP in the other thread who was the betrayed. On one side forgiveness is expected or else it's the betrayed fault. In this sense forgiveness is impossible and the betrayed has no responsibility.

very mild controvery

 

Could you point me to the thread in which you (or someone else in a similar position) were given advice that implied that forgiveness by your SO should be expected in the context of PMO addiction?

 

I already answered this in the other thread addressing this so-called contradiction. a) a person acting on addiction is not the same as a person acting rationally and b) porn is not comparabale to sex with a real person. Comparing oranges and apples makes no sense.

 

A) sure, you can make that argument
B) betrayal trauma experts would disagree.

 

Very interesting thread here. I admire the SO's that are sticking with their PA partners/spouses. Because none of us are perfect and we are all trying to improve ourselves, I'd like to think I would stay with my spouse, help them, and re-build the relationship. Are any of us out there not broken in some way?

 

Well said. It's the lying, the secrets and the hiding that are so destructive about cheating rather than the specific acts themselves. It's about broken trust.
In my past relationships, I was quite open about my PMO and did not hide my massive stash of pornography . . . yet, I did. I hid some of the darker secrets and fantasies. I thought of porn and fantasies while having sex with my partner. I had fantasies about her friends. I did not share this openly. Moreover, I struggled with PIED and DE. Regardless of whether my partner said that she accepted my porn addiction . . . I deprived her of the love and intimacy that she deserved, that all people deserve. Yes, porn in normalised in our society, which is why was able to hide my addiction behind a self image of open-mindedness and simply having a high sex drive. What I really had was an addiction that was eating me up and wasn't doing a damn thing to benefit her. The world we live in does more than enough to make women feel like they don't measure up. None of my ex-girlfriends needed to be subjected to seeing me obsessed with thousands of images of fantasy women.
Maybe I wasn't "technically" cheating, but having all those fantasies in my head and all that pornography in my possession was probably more destructive than a few isolated acts of sexual infidelity.

 

So if I look at a picture of chocolate cake and imagine eating it and my mouth is salivating, it means I am eating cake? Seems legit. This is so ironic because ever since I've joined this forum, I've always fought for my viewpoint that porn is in fact a form of cheating. However, I can be rational enough to see that there is a difference between receiving sexual pleasure from pixels on the screen and from a real person. I can also quote many SOs around the forum saying betrayal trauma is more about the betrayal of trust, being backstabbed by a loved one, rather than the sexual betrayal in the form of pictures/videos. Betrayal of trust is unforgivable. If I tell my boyfriend 'please don't eat this cake that I made for a friend' and then I find out that he ate the cake, it hurts like hell to know that he did something I asked him not to do. That means I can never be sure again that he cares about respecting my boundaries. And that mindset is really not compatible with love and creates a toxic relationship. Obviously I wouldn't care about a silly cake. I wouldn't tell anyone that I broke up with my boyfriend because he ate a cake. I would tell them that he didn't love me because he willingly betrayed my trust. Being a betrayed SO myself, I know I could never ever be able to trust my boyfriend again unless I knew he is fixing his addiction. Because a relationship without trust is pointless. And yes, I am not denying that porn for me being a mild form of sexual betrayal makes the betrayal of trust hurt even more.

But none of this even matters and supports the argument of this thread. Just because some addicts say 'physical betrayal and betrayal of trust is horrible, leave your girlfriend' nobody has the right to assume they are having a double standard. That's just not logical. Billions of people who are not addicts will argue exactly the same thing, and they are not trying to subconsciously deflect their guilt or something. Sex outside of a relationship is widely accepted as unforgivable betrayal, while porn isn't. There are many PAs here that talk about their SOs supporting their reboot and not needing to know every time they relapse, because they just don't care about virtual women and don't feel personally affected by the addiction. Betrayal of trust is widely accepted as unacceptable and unforgivable behavior. It seems to me like SOs are projecting the pain over their personal sacrifices and saying anyone who isn't willing to do the same sacrifices is being hypocritical or selfish. Even if you want to argue that an SO views porn on the same level as real life sex, as I am sure some do feel that way, if they suffer horrible pain from feeling betrayed, they are free to leave. Why should someone be judged for not wanting to endure torture and suffer for the sake of fixing a relationship? If a person willingly chooses disproportionate amounts of pain and suffering without getting love and respect and happiness in return, that's either codependency or some other kind of self-destructive behavior. Mentally healthy people wouldn't act that way. That's why to me so many SOs being here is proof that betrayal of trust under the influence of addiction and sexual betrayal in the form of pictures/videos is not comparable with a rational and conscious decision to have sex with a friend and cheat someone's love and trust that way.

 

I think if you were to read the thread "stop with the idiotism" in rebooting in a relationship, I think you'll gain a better understanding of why @eagle rising responded in the way he did. According to JustName, all SO's are narcissistic and shouldn't be tolerated and "real men" should just leave. It was sorta a carry over from a previous thread.

I would have told you this sooner, but I received the notification of your response only a few minutes ago, which is odd because you posted this on Sunday. I wonder if this site is experiencing some glitches. My notification said you posted it 9 minutes prior to my response. Weird