1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Is this what I want?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Mirandasface, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. The Eleven

    The Eleven Fapstronaut

    1,532
    1,887
    143
    He may not like being suspected, but he's got nobody but himself to blame for that. If he wants to get back to the place where he's no longer under suspicion, he's going to have to demonstrate his commitment to fixing this. So far, he hasn't. Trust is earned, not given.
     
    Strugglesaurus likes this.
  2. Hero One

    Hero One Fapstronaut

    222
    245
    43
    Trust is granted, not earned.

    But don't get me wrong - I'm not promoting naievity here, and trust can most certainly be abused. But mistrust can easily breed resentment, and Miranda could quickly find herself immediately going to a place of suspicion, even when there's nothing to be suspicious of. It's dangerous and relationship destroying, however justified that place of suspicious might be based on previous examples.

    All the best,

    -H1
     
    8BitsOfStuggling likes this.
  3. The Eleven

    The Eleven Fapstronaut

    1,532
    1,887
    143
    I would urge you to go back and read the original post. When you have been lied to as many times as she has, it would be foolish to assume anything other than that he is lying. The fact that things have gotten to that point is HIS fault, and only HE can fix it. And the only way to fix it is to stop lying and hiding things and EARN back the trust he has shattered with his pattern of lies and deception. Under the circumstances, believing that he took his phone into the bathroom for 30 minutes because he didn't want his alarm to wake her up would be the very definition of naivete (even if we didn't know that she wakes up at the same time as he does, so that the explanation doesn't make any sense).

    I understand where you're coming from, and I hate to be the one always advising women to take a hard line, but I fail to see why Miranda's the one who needs to be flexible with her principles here. What is her man doing to earn that kind of consideration? Nothing, as far as I can tell.
     
    Strugglesaurus likes this.
  4. Hero One

    Hero One Fapstronaut

    222
    245
    43
    I agree, the fact things have gotten to this point is his fault - but not only he can fix it. Infact, he's demonstrated a great inability to change: I'm fairly sure he doesn't want to be in an unhappy relationship. Now I'm not justifying his actions, or making excuses for him at all - and certainly not putting ANY emphasis on what Miranda has done (as I've previously said, I'm only ever blown away at her patience and persistence in making this work.) It's not about Miranda being flexible with her principles at all: She has to take a hard line, for sure, but she has to lend him her strength.

    But if it's going to work, it IS going to take BOTH of them. She has to forgive him - every time - and not continually look at the past wrongs. She has to erase that slate and look forward - because that is the direction they are going. Does he deserve that level of love and patience? Probably not. But that's why it's love - and Miranda wants to make it work. I can only commend her for that.

    All the best,

    -H1
     
  5. The Eleven

    The Eleven Fapstronaut

    1,532
    1,887
    143
    We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I don't think anyone has -- or should have -- the sort of limitless patience you seem to advocate. She's been patient and forgiving and nothing has changed. Time to change tactics, or why imagine you'll get different results?
     
  6. faithinanewlife

    faithinanewlife Fapstronaut

    72
    32
    18
    There seems to be a flaw in this. The guy has promised not to look at porn for a year. He has no support group, not much or any awareness, and seems rather shut down.

    Now if he is some kind of Obi wan master and can somehow recover on a dime (which for most of us involves getting real with emotions, facing ourselves, dealing with withdrawal.. ALL THE THINGS!! Etc) then great, but who in here would take that bet??

    Maybe this test will get him to see that he is actually addicted, but since he made the stakes so high he isn't incented to be honest.

    Solemn vows don't do a damn thing in the face of addiction. You need support and awareness... A crisis.

    This MAY get him to a level of awareness.

    If I were OP i would be prepared to demand the following on relapse:

    1 weekly therapy
    2 12 step program if you have them there
    3 k9 and accountability software
    4 humility

    If he fails it just proves he is an addict. Addicts can't keep their word until they have some recovery time under their belt.

    Good luck.. Miracles happen! (I donT mean that sarcastically)
     
    Hero One and WOTL like this.
  7. WOTL

    WOTL Fapstronaut

    600
    954
    123
    I believe that these are decisions that should be made after getting some counseling and/or joint therapy. Advising taking a hard line or soft line, forgiving or not forgiving, one more chance or not could be made with more confidence after getting some professional help. We would not treat a "disease" without talking to an expert in person. This type of deep issues seems to me beyond the scope of what we can really advise in an anonymous forum.

    How about advising therapy to treat the addiction problem, and other relationship issues, before making a decision? All advice we give here, including mine, might be wrong... An expert with proper training and experience, discussing issues with both parties, can provide more focused recommendations. If he is in denial and refuses therapy, then that would be a different issue...
     
  8. Hero One

    Hero One Fapstronaut

    222
    245
    43
    Perhaps I should have been more clear. She has to forgive him if she wants to continue with him.

    I don't really disagree with what you're saying - I'm not advocating abuse of trust - and absolutely agreeing with others on finding a solution and a way forward. But moving forward requires leaving the past behind.

    -H1
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  9. Mirandasface

    Mirandasface Fapstronaut

    24
    12
    3

    I fight with this all the time. i want to give him the opportunity to be trusted again, but its so easy for my mind to go into detective mode.

    Its exhausting. During a heated comversation last night...he threw his phone at me. Tells me- go ahead, look through it. I havent looked at P in three weeks. (even tho i found it on his phone while he was away on his trip one week ago, which I still havent told him I found)

    I refused to looked through it. This enraged him.

    I went on to tell him that I am trying to learn how to take his word on things and that I want to believe him.

    This doesnt mean that the detective instincts arent sewn deep in me, ready and able at any moment. My goal in regards to this, is to make him feel comfortable with coming to me if he slips up or gets the urges.
     
  10. Blondewife

    Blondewife Fapstronaut

    345
    492
    63
    Miranda-

    This is proof right here that he is lying. No need to say you are trying to trust him or give him the benefit of the doubt. He flat out lied to you about not watching porn when you know for a fact that he did. I think this is pretty clear. He is in deep and you shouldn't trust him right now. Not saying this is a game changer because Haggis and I went through a good 8 years of lies before he changed but do you want to go through the same?
     
  11. Blondewife

    Blondewife Fapstronaut

    345
    492
    63
    I know that people are saying "leave the past in the past to be able to move on" but this is clearly not the past- this is the present and your future (and your child's future) if you don't get a grasp on this situation. I'm sorry if I am being harsh but it infuriates me to see partners treat their significant other the way that he is treating you.
     
    8BitsOfStuggling likes this.
  12. faithinanewlife

    faithinanewlife Fapstronaut

    72
    32
    18
    You're setting yourself up for massive frustration. There is no 'support' for his creating trust on his own. I've never know recovery to work in isolation.

    If you want him to feel comfortable talking about slips, then you have to let him get out from this impossible promise he made. My ex did this. She said, I've been reading about p addiction and I see that most guys suffer slips. We've set this up as a 'all or nothing' thing, and from what I can see, its not fair to the reality of your situation. She said I want you to feel ok talking to be about what your are going through. (intimacy). Again, hope is that he starts to get humble and recognize his need for support to get through it all.

    And in the same vein, you have to be comfortable telling him that you looked at his phone, and found p on it, which, unless you had an agreement that you could do that, is a boundary crossing into his private world, which is something you may want to apologize for.

    Trust takes vunerability. sometimes if you are the first to show it, the other party will follow.

    Good luck. This won't be easy.. Just don't want PERFECTION.. IMMEDIATE TRUST.. IMMEDIATE SOBRIETY. doesn't work that way, and wanting to is going to cause a mess of suffering.

    If that is what you require, then just leave. you won't get it from him [EDIT] unless he gets humble as a mouse and realizes he can't do this on his own, and gets into real recovery. Might have to force a crisis to get him there.

    I really feel for you. I know from my own experience how monstrous this addiction can make us. You are in my prayers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
    AlltheRageBackHome likes this.
  13. Mirandasface

    Mirandasface Fapstronaut

    24
    12
    3
    Thank you so much for the words you leave for me. I respect the harshness completely, it definitely gives me a reality check when I can be found all too deep in my emotions and insecurities. I really do appreciate it.

    When I find myself making that decision of leaving, which Ive made a hundred times already...I ask myself- would this be fair? (along eith other thoughts)

    One thing I seem to forget is some of the sacrifices he has made to be in a relationship with me. I only mention this so that all information is weighed in advice and input.

    This is a man who moved halfway across the country to be with me. Away from his mother, his boys, siblings, etc. This is a man who sacrificed the very close relationship with his brother (who lives nearby us) to be with me. I live in a fairly busy city, which he is completely miserable in. The cultures, religions, qualities, etc., are completely unfamiliar to him, most of which goes against what hes known his entire life.

    I ask myself daily- why am I still here? Why is he still here? (questions I cant fully answer yet)

    I always find myself right back to the thoughts (like someone previously mentioned here)- if I give up now, this will all have been for nothing.

    I may be all over the place here, but Im just trying to gather my thoughts as they come. Im sorry if this is confusing.

    I plan to update later and hopefully it will help in responses to some of the things mentioned to me.
     
  14. Mirandasface

    Mirandasface Fapstronaut

    24
    12
    3

    Right now, I am learning to not only forgive myself for some of the things that I have allowed to go on in my relationship, as well as the things he has allowed. Whether the outcome of this forgiveness leads to us being together or not. I agree with the importance of forgiveness. In all aspects of life.

    Something else I never really was able to admit until coming to this website, especially with the great influence and advice from @AlltheRageBackHome (and many others along the way) was fear. Fear of giving up for the wrong reasons. Fear of not knowing where to go from here. Fear of judgements. Fear of the pain/emotions I could possibly cause by the decisions I am fighting to make. Fear of failure.

    I am continously trying to overcome this fear. Ive never had that reality brought to my attention before without judgement.

    Usually, me being the prideful person Ive always been- would have laughed at the mere thought that I was scared of such things. I am continuously trying to improve on these flaws within. I know that I may not get things right all the time. I know that sometimes I am to blame for the faults I allow to exist.

    But- Ive also realized that in my decision, whether to continue in this relationship or not...I could very well make the wrong decision no matter how much thought I put into making it. The difference is that I know now- that I must be okay with making the wrong decisions.
     
  15. 8BitsOfStuggling

    8BitsOfStuggling Fapstronaut

    497
    382
    63
    To be completely honest @Mirandasface, I am going to un-watch this thread after this post. The reason why follows. It breaks my heart to see relationships like this. It truly breaks my heart. You are in a abusive relationship, maybe he doesn't beat you... not yet. But it might increase to that, I don't really know. Regardless, it is an abusive relationship. You can choose to hold onto it, try to force it to work, or do all sorts of things and frankly it wont change me one bit, your are welcome to do what you please. That being said, you stated you appreciate the bluntness, so that is what I am doing.

    You are in an abusive relationship. He doesn't respect you. He doesn't acknowledge you. He is choosing not to trust you. You cannot trust him. He doesn't care to be involved with his child (by actions). You are afraid of how he will respond. He is afraid of himself. He doesn't appear to know who he is or what he wants, nor do you. He lives in a place he is not happy with. He is sacrificing real life people to be with you (to an extent, this shows the relationship is being forced and not working as a healthy relationship should). I could go on and on. But frankly it breaks my heart to read all the things he does, how he acts, and that you wont draw the line. That you wont stick up for yourself just makes me infuriated with the world. These are human lives we are talking about, your own, your child's, and even his. You are not a door matte, you are not there to be walked all over but yet you choose to reside in something that isn't healthy.

    The whole situation breaks my heart, not only because of him but because you are afraid of being alone I think. Afraid of drawing the line. What are you going to lose if you do? The only things you will lose are negative ones, which need to be lost so you can lead a healthy life. I have read all your posts since you initially posted, offered my support and opinions, of which is all I can do. So now I bid you good luck. I hope you can open your mind to the fact that this isn't healthy, this isn't right, this isn't justice. But for me, I can no longer bare to read the pain that your relationship is in and that nothing seems to change or even point toward change yet.

    I wish you the best in your journey to discovering who you are yourself, because I feel you are just as lost as he is.

    God bless and I will be praying for you.
     
    AlltheRageBackHome likes this.
  16. You made some really good solid points, mate. Utterly agree.

    I'm also going to have to agree that it's unfair and does cross boundaries, @Mirandasface, to look through his phone. I know how concerned you are about him. I really do get it, but looking through someone's phone is a major boundary crosser. We can't control anyone, whether what they're doing is right or wrong.

    I once caught my ex girlfriend looking through my phone, because for whatever silly reason, she suspected me of cheating (which I wasn't and never have). The point I'm trying to make is that, whether someone is doing something that is right or wrong, the phone is that persons property and we can't just go looking through it behind their back.

    All you can do is ask him for the truth and try to discern what's really going on for yourself. As I said before, it's a matter of catching him in the act.

    At the end of the day, as others such as @Blondewife have said, it just doesn't look like he can be trusted. You said that you know he's lying about having not viewed porn in 3 weeks.
    It still seems like you're trying to justify his actions and foul behaviour towards you. His attitude towards you in general is extremely dysfunctional.

    You're looking at the sacrifices he's made and you're trying to create an equal balance for him. You're trying to save him by looking at his deeds. You can't afford to do that. Now, many are probably going to disagree with this, but many of us have grown up with the wrong view of love. Most of our definition of love is grounded by what society says love is. Love is not sacrifice. Love is ONLY a gift. Nothing less than that. A lot of the time people use the term "sacrifice" to manipulate others in passive aggressive ways. For example, sometimes we say to people, "I did such and such for you, but what about me...?" This is not love. Love has no expectation or demands. Love is a gift. True, real love does not expect anything back, because it perfectly understands that everyone has free will to do what they want.

    Try to see what he did for you as a gift, not a sacrifice, because many use the term sacrifice in the sense that, just because I've done something for someone, it means they have to do something for me now also, but that is not love. Real love doesn't expect things from people.

    The best love is where I can love someone unconditionally and not have ANY expectations of them in return. No one on this planet is forced to do anything for us. That is just the reality of free will.
     
  17. Agree completely.
     
  18. The Eleven

    The Eleven Fapstronaut

    1,532
    1,887
    143
    And yet he's not with you at all, is he?
     
    AlltheRageBackHome likes this.
  19. Hero One

    Hero One Fapstronaut

    222
    245
    43
    You're a brave one Miranda. I think you're getting to a point where you just have to take that leap and make a decision on your future.

    You'll torture yourself in limbo otherwise; as difficult as making that decision is.

    Please remember that whatever decision you make, there's life after it. You'll carry on, move on and get through it. If nothing else, you'll know you've got a community right here that understands.

    You're stronger than you think you are; I'm so inspired, as i say, with how patient and supportive you've been with your partner - whatever decision you make regarding your future with him, I know you'll get through.

    All the best.

    -H1
     
  20. Hero One

    Hero One Fapstronaut

    222
    245
    43
    Don't get me wrong Blondewife - I'm not excusing or justifying the guys behaviour; he's got a lot changing to do. He's treating her appallingly.

    I'm just advocating against the approach of standing there with arms folded waiting for him to prove himself good enough. And having failures he's already very aware (and probably ashamed of) held over him.

    I know it's not fair - I know he doesn't deserve that - but I'm also flipping glad someone had the grace to get alongside me when my life was down the pan.

    I agree that if he doesn't want to change, then it's not going to work - and Miranda has to make the decision around that. But while she's fighting for it, I'm always going to advise grace and forgiveness. If it turns out theres no chance, at least she'll know she did nothing but love.

    All the best,

    -H1
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
    Blondewife likes this.

Share This Page