A Damaging Perception (Skeptic - Avoid if easily influenced)

You were hoping for a white knight.... well here is a blue smurf.

Yeah you need to get through this. What you're saying sounds scientific enough... but I don't put much credence in the science around this stuff, for sure it is interesting but it certainly does not motivate any of my decisions. The main reason is that science of the mind and lets face it: 'human happiness' is at the very very best just a huge reduction of what is really going on. Something as precisely limited (and tiny) as hypothesis on data of testosterone levels or dopamine levels (even if those hypothesis are correct, and the data relevant) simply come no where close to fully capturing what is going on with me as a human being. We are just nowhere close to that kind of knowledge.

Here are a couple reasons I am on this journey:
1) I met a bunch of regular guys who practiced total abstinence and there was a freedom an joy about them that I wanted. So I wanted to try to see what would happen, and gradually I discovered:
2) I finally realized my behavior was not truly sexual but an addiction (and that my very thoughts and feelings were working at their highest capacity to keep me addicted).

A few years ago I spent many months trying to help this heroine addict. Had him living with me. It was a failure, he simply used me. But the unexpected thing was he actually helped me. Because I saw that in many ways he was not that different from me. I had a different drug. My mind was pushing my bodies buttons to get it aroused so I could get my fix. It was not my body making me horny it was my own mind deciding to make me horny. Porn was not required. I'll grab anything that works. Lock me in a dungeon I'll use fantasies. Put me in the street I will hone in and leer at any curve that pleases me. My mind has decided, has chosen, to get high on sex. And the first step is to see your own body and others as nothing more than a tool to get your sexual fix.

So first off it wasn't till I stopped caring about super powers that I was able to pull long streaks. My take on them is they are just part of the addictive cycle. Whatever the physical and emotional underpinnings of this behavior truly are this addiction depletes me and puts me in a negative state of mind. Once you start believing you are emerging from an addiction there is a wave of relief and confidence and vigor that sets in... but in truth that is only a sign you've peeled back a layer of the onion... in the end it means you haven't won the battle... you're just holding out for a bigger bang (heroine addicts do the same thing, they sign up for the 2 week or one month state funded detox program for the sole reason of getting back that awesome 'first time' user feeling the moment they get out). So for us these positive effects will lead to increased horniness... the increased horniness will lead to a fall... followed by disappointment and disgust (and typically after a binge that can go on for some indefinite period of time, an hour, a month, a decade)... which eventually fuels determination... which leads to initial success.... and on and on the roller coaster goes. You are currently at a phase I would call: lets settle and manage this. And at some level you are right: If you make a habit of staying in the fight, even if it is not to win, but only to keep some distance, then that is at least an improvement, better than the all out perpetual binger. I was there for years. But the truth is you are not pushing through a barrier you fully well can. I found I had really clear barriers at 1,2,3 weeks and one month... where there would be a level of urge I could not get through... (it's remarkably like a video game with harder to beat monsters that you need to learn to outwit at every level).

Anyway I need to wrap it up: Here is your new attitude: fuck your mind and feelings. You cannot trust them. During reboot you will feel like crap. There will be days you feel awesome too. And all the time your brain is weaseling trying to come up with some great reason to waste you. Work on getting out of you thoughts and feelings. (Take some distance from them) Focus on truly living in the present, instead of some future or some past or some hypothetical situation or fantasy. The irony is your mind makes you live in a reality that does not exist (it is not in the present) that makes it seem like your life is hard (the urge is killing me and only going to worse etc. etc.)... but it's not true. Live in the present, be truly aware, and you will see that life is actually fine.... it is only the 'idea' of having you being a mega stud having sex with the babe that makes the present seem unbearably boring. But focusing on that idea rather than the present is a form of unconsciousness, even insanity if you will, why would you do that to yourself? It serves no good purpose. It brings you no closer to actually finding that amazing woman and having a real relationship with her.

Anyway this was more of a ramble than I had hoped,
Hope it helps in some way

 

I am pretty well divided on this matter too. I have not gone anywhere close to the standard 90 yet (my best is 10% of that) but the messages have well and truly sunk in by now- the Porn simply HAS to go. And I have found tangible benefits from a succession of attempts to stay away from the stuff. Never had any physiological effects from it (ED etc) but still wanted to try this in the interests of emotional well being and thus far I am quite sure it has been an enormous benefit to my life. But when I get from 7-9 days the urge to release is massive. I understand this is part of the process- but I cant help but wonder- is it the P, independent of the M, that is MORE of a problem here? I think this is a subjective thing and different users need to tailor goals based on their own needs. Don't get me wrong I would really like to go the full 90 but I can't help but wonder about it sometimes.

 

Regardless of testosterone spikes - useful info to think about actually, if not just to understand the male cycle here for urges (thanks), MO seems to be such a self-centered, addictive activity that I can't imagine the reality of using it in such a neat, clean, and disciplined manner without it slipping back into the very quagmire of addiction. That is -- Well, since I MO anyway - today I'm angry, so I'll need self-pleasure, a quick fix---I can't sleep, okay a quick jo, then; my regular sex day fell through, okay.... see what I mean? When do we ever learn to deal with life's ups and downs other than self-medicating on brain dopamine? It's not the life I want to buy back into - in fact, I often see such rationalizations (which I have had them all) as trying to find a loophole in an otherwise healthy, happy, and holistic life - it's really the addict in me trying to justify some part of the addiction all over again, so that I can just fall completely into the shitty swamp thereafter.

 

Yep that is a good point and I am very aware of this line of reasoning and accept it too. I suppose masturbating is like putting the training wheels back on again in preparation for the main event. And trying to recall all that archived porn in the dusty recesses of the mind (as one is usually want to do in the process of masturbating) involves quite a bit of psychic energy! So much easier to go back to the stimulus version on a screen. I guess that masturbating is part of the cycle and because it is such a big part of the P experience, it should be singled out as a no-go. But what are your thoughts on independent masturbation on an ad-hoc basis, however 'bland' and without P- i.e masturbating to release on occasion?

 

The way I see it, doing nofap is about more than semen retention and "peak" testosterone. Anyway, fluctuating levels of testosterone, like I imagine you would get from MO once a week or every once and a while, would be bad for your body's internal balance and your overall happiness/peace of mind. It would be better to have a normal level of testosterone and a brain that isn't addicted.
An addicted brain is the other big thing to worry about. If you masturbate on a regular basis, or even every now and then, your brain will become addicted to the high levels of dopamine, and that could very easily lead back into a full on PMO addiction. And even if it doesn't, no one likes the way an addict acts, even when it's just little things that he doesn't notice. The brain is desensitized to all the simple pleasures in life, and people just don't seem interesting to him. The only thing that really seems to satisfy him is his addiction, but we all know that isn't really satisfaction.
I never suffered from PIED, I was never that interested in semen retention, and I don't get many of these superpowers people talk about, but I'm much happier and have a better temper when I'm completely free of PMO.

 

I don't shame anyone for having bad addictive habits. Want to smoke a pack a day? Knock yourself out. Want to eat fast food every meal of the day, and drink two bottles of whiskey everyday, you go ahead and do that too.

However if you do those things and you no longer want to anymore and can't break the habit, that is a cause for concern. That means you have character issues that need to be dealt with. That means that a "muscle" in your brain that processes urges is very weak, and you need to get that thing stronger.

That is why I am here. PMO/ MO was a daily habit for me, but in the depths of my soul I knew I didn't want it anymore. I knew I wanted real, sexual relationships with women. Just look at yourself honestly. If you really don't care about occasionally fapping, then knock yourself out. Just don't make excuses for it if you actually want to quit, because you are killing yourself inside if you are.

 

Yeah that is solid reasoning. Don't use masturbating as a stand in for real life stuff which the goods are designed to do through evolution, gene expression etc.

 

Yes, I'm reaching 6 weeks this Friday - let it come! (no pun intended)

 

Of course a good reason not to MO is the chaser effect. Those first few days after MO are difficult.

 

I posted about this issue on another thread, so perhaps it's useful to you @chefboyxo .
I think there are two kinds of semen retention. one is based on abstaining and the other is controlled ejaculation (CE).
Taoism and other Eastern traditions advocate both to boost male stamina, libido and vitality.

The difference in motivation is huge. Abstinence is much harder because it involves no orgasms and presumably no sex. As we all know it can be frustrating and can lead to all sorts of emotional and physical challenges.

CE means that you get to orgasm, but you don't ejaculate. You hold on to the majority of your essence, which means you're less depleted. You're therefore more likely to be ready sooner to have sex again if it's on the cards. It's also less likely that anyone will get pregnant. You're also more likely to have longer orgasms. You're more likely to last longer and more able to give more pleasure to your partner. Also there is not the same build up of fluids with CE, because you urinate quite a bit out post orgasm.

I've practicing this since I was 18 (12 years now) and I have found that if I practice abstinence between sexual encounters and CE during sex, this is the best way to keep my energy up as a man. Over the last few years my challenge has become the abstinence between encounters and spending too much time on PMO, which is what I'm here to work on.

Hope this has been helpful.