Is this what I want?

I'd go as far as saying that it really depends on what ones definition of forgiveness and grace is, though. The fact of the matter is, the things that Miranda's partner is doing is causing Miranda to feel unhappy.

I think we can all gather now that this is so not just about the porn issue any more. Her guy is not even attending to the baby and he just doesn't seem to be very present. He is acting very unloving towards Miranda in general. Forget about porn for a second. He's passive aggressive and she has mentioned that he has gone into fits of verbal abuse towards her.

Perhaps the question here should be, why would one want to stay in a relationship if they are being treated in an unloving manner in the first place? Like you said, this all comes down to a decision that Miranda has to make, but we're basing this off of the wrong things. I'm sorry, but at this point I fail to see how this is about grace and forgiveness.

 

It's not. Unless her decision is to persevere and try to make it work.

Then it has to be.

I know the realistic suggestion is for her to kick him into touch - to give a firm ultimatum or leave him altogether. She'd be well grounded in a million reasons for doing that - I don't think anybody would criticise that decision.

But no matter how bad someone is, nobody is more than one life decision away from turning it all around. I hate to hear of Miranda's mistreatment. But she's the best hope he has.

Again - no he doesn't deserve her, or that continued patience and love. But he needs it. And that's why its grace.

 

Completely disagree. Miranda is not responsible for him. They're not even married for goodness sake.
What you're talking about is verging on co-dependency..

Each individual is responsible for their own actions at the soul level. She is not responsible for his PMO (and the other mistreatment that he has been portraying towards her). This is not about "grace", this is about one taking responsibility for their own choices. His damage was not created by Miranda. He needs to allow himself to work through his own turmoil, whether he is in a relationship or single, should make no difference. If he and Miranda had never met, he'd still have a shit ton of stuff to work through regardless.

In terms of working through our own emotions, we become our own hope. It is about learning to own our own emotions that drive us to do dumb things in the first place.

 

@AlltheRageBackHome , I agree with you.

I didn't say Miranda was responsible for him. I'm saying that if her decision is to stay with him (not even saying that's the decision she should make) then there's probably no one better in his world right now to support him through it. That's not her responsibility - she has no binding to do that - but as you say, they're not married - but if she chooses to stay with him, that level of support is required.

It's irrelevant whether he's single or not. Because he's not. Should he be? I would probably say yes - but that's not my call, and it's ultimately her decision.

Yes, his damage is his own; yes it's his issue alone to ultimately work through, but is Miranda simply to stand back and watch because he's been atrocious to her?

Or (I f she decides to stay) would it require her accepting that he has wronged her, but helping him anyway? Is that not grace?

 

I bring up the point of him being single or in a relationship, and why it makes no difference, because you mentioned her being his only hope, which even though you tried to clear up, I still disagree with that statement altogether... Whether in a relationship, OR even married, we are no ones hope. Each person is their own responsibility, and Miranda is not responsible for her guys unloving display of emotions towards her... That is why I made the point of him being single or not. He is his OWN hope, until he deals with his root emotions. He'd still need to deal with this if he were single or in any other state. He can only save himself by allowing himself to be completely honest and real with himself, which he is failing to do.

You ask, is Miranda supposed to sit back.... Uhm, no of course she's not, which is why for the past couple of weeks on this same post I have been encouraging Miranda to make a decision about this dude, due to his unloving behaviour, which other people have encouraged as well; Encouraging a decision that benefit her happiness and her childs. No, I'm not in the camp that she stays with him, but that is Miranda's free will decision to make for herself.

For Miranda to sit back and just watch, is the last thing I'm wanting her to do, obviously.

 

@AlltheRageBackHome

My apologies for confusing you over the hope issue. A bad choice of phrase on my part. Perhaps best source of outside encouragement and support would have been less abstract.

I agree, ultimately we have to become our own hope, but sometimes we don't have the strength. Whether we should be in a relationship if we're not in that place is another discussion - I only say it's irrelevant right here and now is because that's not their situation. Whether Miranda chooses to make that the situation is her choice. As I say again, his issues are not Miranda's responsibility, but if shes choosing to be with him, she has to choose to be with all of him - including his failings - and have the grace not to hold it against him.

I have also been encouraging such a decision - that is key.

 

Yeah, it's just that many have different perceptions of love, much of which has been adopted from society (a damaged and error based view point of love). True love actually puts yourself first. Self love is important. As some other wise people have commented on this thread, that the same things have been occurring in this relationship. She has already tried to offer support. She has done all she can do already. All this stuff about grace... Sometimes I think we've adopted distorted versions of that as well.

To be truly humble, means for someone to allow themselves to see themselves as they truly are. True humility is for someone to own up to their error based emotions and begin working on them. Miranda's guy hasn't shown much humility. We do not need to suffer in relationships, especially if the other person is not making many steps to change, otherwise it just turns into abuse. Grace, IS the ability to be able to BE humble to work on ones emotions.

Love is a gift, it is not sacrifice. Love has no expectations of another. Love takes care of it's own soul. She cannot expect him to change. It's his free will (which is another gift he has) to act how he wants to. Since he is using his free will to behave in an unloving manner, Miranda needs to now decide what she wants to do, and I already know what camp I'm in and wont be budging from that stance.

 

I'm with you. We're in the same camp. I'm not advocating abusing Miranda's patience and compassion. He has to want to change - but we all know that's not easy - but he has to make the decision.

She has done more than just support him - she's taken the flak of an emotionally draining and upsetting partner for far longer than she should have done. Far more than I would have been able to stand im sure. She cannot expect him to change, or even be his change. It is down to him - but If she chooses to be with him, she chooses his issues too.

All these words and ideals: trust, love, hope, grace, forgiveness. It's all blanketing the same bottom line: if she wants to stay with him, then shes going to have a hell of a time and have to be prepared to take more of it, while he figures out the issues.

Also, Sorry Miranda for talking so at length about you and your situation without your feedback and input!

 

How are you doing Miranda? I haven't seen you post in a while. Just checking in!

 

And you deserve effort in every way. It is damn well possible for him to put forth effort, but he doesn't try and respect you, I believe a ultimatum is in order.

He needs to know you are serious. He needs to realize you will not stand for this. Right now, he thinks it's not a big deal and that you are just being silly. Get him on this forum and get him educated. Tell him to make a journal and we can help him work through his problem. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I know how you feel and so does my SO. We are still recovering from such horrible acts, but we remain strong and supportive.

Do not put up with his disrespect. He probably doesn't even fully realize it's a problem. I'm so sorry society has him so brainwashed. He needs to have his eyes opened.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world. Not everyone can be reasoned with and I feel the same way about meeting people. There always feels like there is a reason.

I am sorry it has come to this. Please take care of yourself

 

Miranda,

I'm sorry you haven't felt comfortable posting your updates here recently. I know everyone on here feels for you and just wants you to be happy. Some people can be more blunt than others and I sure hope I didn't say anything to upset you. I'm also sorry that things haven't worked our how you planned. You never know though, you may leve this relationship and he may decide that holy shit, I just lost a very wonderful woman. He may still change. But I think he is probably in a rut and may not think you are serious about leaving. I still stand by the fact that you need to take care of yourself and that precious baby which it sounds like you are doing a great job. I look forward to hearing from you again.

Hugs.