Seeking advice: new to nofap, how to talk to my partner about porn use?

I have No Words To Say. The will to change always comes From within tho. Pornography has Affected so Many Lives and Relationships. People around the world say PMO is 'NATURAL' while it is actually Not it's fuckin 'COMMON' not natural Lol. Learning About the addiction, A 12 Step Programme and Other Activities will help him. But Only If He want's to Change and End This Addiction For Good. Take care Ma'am, Peace!

 

This was such a raw, sad, and intimate post that I wanted to respond even though I have nothing to add. You seem an intelligent and feeling person. I hope that you end up with someone that you deserve.

 

Hey, I only read the OP, and wanted to get in before being influenced by other posts. I'll circle back to them later, as this is an important discussion.

You sound like a very caring person and you just want to help. He's not making sense and it's troubling. I can't know exactly what's going on with him, but your description of his words and behavior resonates strongly, and I think there's a good chance my emotional experience regarding P matches his.

He's said before he doesn't like much of the content in P, dislikes it altogether, and claimed he didn't use often. He probably DOESN'T like P, and it's probably true that he doesn't like the content, but probably uses way more often than he even cares to admit to himself and there's a disconnect. It sounds like he's tried to quit, many times before, and has been unable to do so. Now he's in a position where he's tried to compartmentalize his addiction and has been somewhat successful in persuading himself that he can keep his addiction separate from real life. He clearly cannot. He has classic PIED, and sometimes simply accepts it and other times is angry with himself over it. The fact that he can't O unless he depersonalizes S is a sure sign he has excessive use. However, and I can't emphasize this enough, he has tried to stop before and has had no success in doing so. He has deep shame over it, which is why he avoids talking about it and is hypersensitive, even perceives insult when there has been none. In his ideal world he'd never be addicted to P, but this is where he is at and he sees no way out, so he has no option but to deny and avoid.

If it were me in his position, being approached by the person I loved about this problem with me, I'd need to know a couple things before I could hear her. First, I'd have to know she knew I loved her. The conversation sounds like, from my point of view, "You love P more than you love me. You lied to me. You need to prove your love by stopping P, or we are through." I'd have to know my partner understands that I didn't want this addiction, I never wanted it to come between us, if it were a simple choice I'd choose her every single time, I tried to protect her from it, but I can't. This might be specific to me and my psychological makeup, but if I even get a whiff of "You don't really love me" I know that isn't true and I lock up.
Second, I'd need to be convinced the addiction can be beaten. I had been addicted to M since I was 12 or 13, it was against my religion and I sincerely tried to quit so many times. I didn't have the right tools to do so. I was in my 30's and was 4/5ths convinced P would always be a part of my life when I read about NoFap. Knowing there were others who had succeeded in beating P gave me hope that I could do it, too.
Third, I'd want to be assured she considered P the enemy, not me.

The harsh reality is he did lie and he is addicted and it is coming between the two of you, and there probably isn't much hope for a relationship if he continues. He's not going to be ready to face any of that, though. If I'm right, he feels trapped and angry at his past self for putting him in this position, angry at his present self for putting both of you in this position, and angry at the addiction that won't let him go. It's hard to get through all of that anger.

Another thing to consider in your research is possibility that he has ADHD. It's a dopamine deficiency, and P might be his only known reliable source to get enough to keep him functional on other levels. This would explain why he got hooked, despite P being against his personal values, and why he can't stop.

I'll read what the others have said, and I hope he can be persuaded to give NoFap a chance. In the end it's his choice, though. No addict can be forced out of their addiction.

 

Not going to give relationship advice - not my forte.

I will say that there are many reasons for DE. When you mentioned "firm" it reminded me of Dan Savage and the "Deathgrip". It may not be the porn that is causing the delays, or even the fact he masturbates, but HOW he does it.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that this guy is addicted to porn, is experiencing the physical symptoms of the addiction, and does not seem to be able to understand what is going on with him, likely because his mind is so wired to porn at this point.

You gotta hammer into his brain that porn is the problem and he needs to quit. I rely very much on facts and science, being a very practical and to-the-point male who studies a mathematically focused STEM subject in university. I was in the same cycle of abuse, seeing symptoms, and then denial as your bf, but was able to escape it due to the great information I found on the website called Your Brain on Porn. It is the best porn addiction recovery research, guides, and testimonials, all curated by leading recovery professionals. I will link articles below that are relevant to your situation, but explore as much as you can on that site. Knowledge is power in the fight against porn.

Main Ideas: Evolution has not prepared your brain for today’s porn

Your Brain On Porn: How Internet Porn Affects the Brain



Are my sexual problems (ED, DE, low libido) related to my porn use?

Any suggestions for healing delayed ejaculation (DE) or anorgasmia?

What do experts tell young guys suffering from ED (the good & the bad)

Studies linking porn use or porn addiction to sexual dysfunctions, lower arousal, and lower sexual & relationship satisfaction

Neuroscience-based studies on porn users and sex addicts

What are the symptoms of excessive Internet porn use?

Studies linking porn use to poorer mental-emotional health & poorer cognitive outcomes

see rebooting basics page

Porn FAQs (explore!)

Articles

These next articles are about understanding how porn affects your relationship going forward.

Boyfriend Quitting Porn? 5 Tips

Handling Porn Addiction as a Couple (Video)

What if my partner is a porn addict?

Now I was lucky to have just read these articles, understood completely that the exact circumstances described reflected my experiences, and decided right there to start my reboot. I have had slips ups in the three years since I started recovering, but I have consistently improved my health, and my overall recovery path is objectively positive.

Your boyfriend may not be this way. Reading scientific words on a screen may not register as much for him as it did for me. You are the closest person to him in this instance, so you're gonna be the one who knows how to get to him. Maybe a video might be more helpful (I have linked one and you can find others in the articles). It might be helpful to get a trusted family member or friend to convince him. Porn addiction can have a very strong hold on someone and put them deep in denial, so use whatever tools are necessary.

If you're confronting him about this again, it might work to come out happy and excited. Be like "Hey Babe! I was looking at some stuff online and I think I found a way to help us have really great sex!" If you come to him really happy and excited it will be hard for him to feel ashamed, and if you tell him it's so he can fuck you like a porn star, it could low key trick his brain into accepting a reboot long enough to clear his head, at which point you can have a more serious talk with him. My primary goal when I started rebooting was having better sex and pleasuring my partners, so if you use a reboot as a means to that end and not the end goal, it makes it much easier to accomplish.

If you think he feels ashamed or embarrassed, try not to use words like "quit" or "addicted" at first. These are words implying he has an addiction, and could just push him further into denial. Again be happy and excited, but stick to the facts: "You are easily my favorite, but it's obvious something's going on", "I really don't care that you watch porn, I know it's dope, but you gotta take care of me!", "I just want to have crazy good sex with you, but that isn't gonna happen with the way you are right now". If he doesn't want to give in, just say the facts of the case, but not in an accusing way: "I know you watch porn, and I can tell it's hard for you to cum, do you agree?", "Remember how hard you were last time and how long it took you to cum?", "You can sense that the sex isn't that great right? Let's make it better together!". Shame, anxiety, and fear can all INCREASE his arousal and his desire for porn, so you really don't want to make him feel that way. Be happy, factual, and influence him with the thought of really dope sex. The goal is to break him out of this fog of denial and abuse so that he can understand what's going on and internalize his next steps.

I am open to debate about this, but I think for the early phases of this, you should not tell him about the conversations you've had on NoFap. Saying "I stumbled across these articles on the internet about porn making sex bad for a lot of guys, do you want to try not watching it so you can fuck me better?" might come off a lot better than "A ton of men I talk to on this sex addiction forum say you need to stop watching porn or I'm going to break up with you!" Eventually you should definitely tell him about your time on NoFap, maybe even encourage him to join, but I'm open to discussion of whether you should let him know about this right now. The stuff from YBOP has more then enough info and testimonials to aid you.

 

I agree but this man's mind may be so corrupted by porn that he needs to hear something that triggers his current desires to get him out of the hole he's dug. Once you do a reboot and rewire with vanilla sex, you realize being a "sex god" is both a fantasy but also reality: you're not a sex god because you last forever, have a six pack and 10 inch dick, and you can make a girl cum 5 times in 2 minutes. You're a sex god when someone feels safe and intimate with you in bed, when you make someone feel satisfied and whole, when you make a legitimate connection with someone. No one is a sex god, but also everyone is if they go into sex with care for their partner and come out with connection.


For a lot of porn abusers, there's a "rock bottom" point that is so traumatic that the reality of their situation is made clear, they internalize what needs to be done, and they're able to start making real changes to recover. For me, my rock bottom was when I lost my virginity to an absolute tenner I had a crush on for months. My PIED was so bad I was 100% limp, and she cried and made me go home because she thought I thought she wasn't pretty. That really made me realize something was wrong, and I've used that terrible memory as fuel to resist porn plenty of times.

This guy has not had his rock bottom yet, and honestly, he could get by without one. If he can clear his mind without a traumatic experience, we should be rooting for him. His gf telling him that if he does one little thing he can fuck her like a porn star is kind of shallow and objectifying, but that's the language his mind is speaking right now. Getting him to stop using porn for at least 3-4 weeks will get him past the first super horny phase and likely into a flatline, during which the reality of the situation should be more clear to him.

 

Lol, it an anonymous forum! How is that a breach of trust? However, I do think she should be up front with him that she is on the forum and he has the choice of staying or leaving because he feels it is a violation of trust.

 

All great stuff. You sound like an ideal partner for an addict to recover with, and I hope he will be willing to start the journey. As @stegiss has suggested, though, it's up to him & you have to make some hard choices regarding what you will do if he isn't willing. Hopefully that won't be necessary, though.

A lot of things. The most obvious is the physical symptoms. A healthy male of his age should have no problems getting up or off to normal S. Condoms are bollocks, I agree, but they shouldn't be that big of a problem, especially if using ultra thins (might think about that for the distant future, but if he goes into reboot I strongly recommend hard mode, which sucks for you too but I digress). His behavior in the bedroom, when he is trying to O, heavily implies he requires specific mental stimulation/fantasy to get off & unfortunately, his real partner isn't part of that stimulation.
Another hint is he's addicted is that he's expressed philosophical distaste for P, both on his own recognizance and out of respect for you, but has admitted he still uses as you state here:

You did a fabulous job of laying out exactly how that conversation went, and I confess I'm projecting a bit, but his behavior mirrors my emotions as I was/am confronted with the cognitive dissonance of my addiction. He does not want to talk about P, is highly defensive and sensitive about it, he doesn't feel good about himself after he uses it, and knows you don't like it and he loves you... but he still uses it. He clearly does not like P and wishes he didn't use it. Any sane person who feels that badly about something they do would have tried to quit doing it. However, he makes justifications/excuses, and blames you when confronted with it.
In the meantime, it seems he has tried to control it and build a code of conduct around it. Part of that code is "Only Certain Kinds of P." He has reported he "finds a lot of it disgusting," which you placed in quotes so I assume means a direct quote from him. That means he finds some of it acceptable. Given other evidence that he has a self image as a caring person (and my own projection again), it probably has to do with the scenarios and how he perceives the performers are treated. The kind of P you found in research probably falls outside his code, so he's as disgusted by it as you are, on a certain level. However, between him being male and him being addicted... under the right circumstances he could get off to it. Which he knows and finds equally disgusting, but now that disgust is directed at himself. That kind of recrimination makes him feel bad about himself, which is a trigger, meaning a feedback loop where he hates what he does but can't stop doing it.
Another part of that code is, "Don't Let P Affect Your Partner." Obviously this isn't working. Addiction clouds perception, though, and he's probably sometimes able to convince himself he's successful with this, or at least, successful enough. You mentioning it feels like a direct accusation because it's incontrovertible evidence that he's failed to live up to his code, and that's a hard thing to handle. Again, projection. I say this because it was my code, and this is how I felt when the code didn't work.
If this is how he feels about it, he has himself compartmentalized and he'll feel better about addressing his problem if he sees that you recognize that compartmentalization. He isn't the problem. It's this soul sucking parasite, this cancerous growth inside him. He's under the impression that the growth has wrapped around his heart, that it's inoperable, but it's not. He's been trying to do surgery on himself with a crude implement. If he has a sharp scalpel (NoFap methods), and someone to hold a mirror so he sees where he's cutting (NoFap community, and you, the understanding and dedicated partner), he can remove it. But he does have to be the one to pick up that scalpel and dig it out.

Yet again, personal experience. DE and ED are just different places on the spectrum. He's been jerking it too hard and too often to too extreme stimulation. It's very difficult for him to get off from PIV, he has to be in a precisely specific mental state, and physically stimulating himself in a way that is psychologically and physically uncomfortable for you. I have been in this exact state. From personal experience and from basically every single other person here who has quit P and then tried normal S again, I virtually guarantee everything will be fine if he quits. It varies, depending on how escalated the addiction currently is, but his performance will improve to completely normal levels anywhere between a few weeks to a few days of separation from P. You could even see improvement with a few hours.

This screams "ADHD!" to me. ADHD people are especially prone to all variety of addictions (estimated 30% of addicts in general have it), and video games are a common coping mechanism or addiction. It's not the fantasy of the game as much as repetitive tasks that are designed to be challenging yet reasonably achievable, granting regular dopamine reward. Video games are not, imo, a terrible coping mechanism, as long as one doesn't become too reliant on them (interferes with job and/or relationships). Video games let you collect things and level up and become proficient in pushing the buttons, it's perfect for those days when I'm easily distracted and having problems being social. It is similar to PMO in the sense that it earns dopamine through a screen, but different in degree and reliability of stimulation. Nothing lights up the brain like erotic content appealing to a kink, but clearing levels, unlocking content, upgrading gear, and sure, advancing the plot, does generate some of that happy hormone. PvP is more risky, because real players are tougher to beat than AI and represent a better level of competence comparable to one's own, but is more rewarding for the same reason. Gamer rage and rage quitting, though, are common phenomena and it's because the gamer in question is not receiving the dopamine they expect to receive.
This is another reason I'm projecting; I have ADHD and I still enjoy gaming. For me, gaming and P are not directly related to each other, but both stem from ADHD. In my case, this was one of the major handicaps when it came to quitting P; I didn't know I had a dopamine deficiency, I didn't know P was compensating for that deficiency, and I didn't know I needed to replace P as a dopamine source with something more healthy in order to reduce the frequency and strength of urges. I just tried to white knuckle it (get through on sheer willpower), and was never able to get beyond two extremely difficult & miserable weeks. Actively addressing this deficiency as part of my repertoire, a 14 day streak is common and as you can see, I can go significantly longer than that.

Off topic but hey! Me too, and I even wrote a book! It's YA soft sci-fi/futuristic fantasy, and it's basically Hunger Games/Divergent/Maze Runner (but 0 romance) and nobody needs more of that, but I worked hard and I'm proud of it. It's getting formatted soon, I'm excited, but I love to read as well, fantasy being on the list so. Kindred spirit I guess.

 

Uhh no. People date because it is fun. There are plenty of people who date and explicitly don't wanna get married. It's very common for people to date, develop a deeper connection and love, and then get married. But plenty of people don't! Dating just to judge someone's marriage qualities is not normal in Western countries and very short-sighted tbh.

People are complicated and we all have flaws, but very few disqualify us intrinsically from marriage. Marriage is an agreement between 2 people to share a life. This agreement is made out of love, connection, and respect. Partners choose to work through addiction in a marriage all the time. It can be difficult and scary, but many people do it. It's not a rule that if your partner has a porn addiction you're supposed to immediately leave. Having a partner means different levels of commitment (FWB, bf/gf, long term partner, spouse), and depending on your commitment levels, you may agree to stick with your partner and resolve the issue. It's immature and selfish do abandon anyone and everyone that has certain issues that you just decide are abhorrent.

Did you read the account? The vanilla sex is not unenjoyable because she likes kinkier stuff, likes it rougher, wants to use toys, or anything else. Her bf can barely finish/stay erect, the intensity makes her feel objectified and used, and she feels little sexual connection to her partner. What she is describing does not sound like vanilla sex that would be remotely pleasurable.

The advice I'm giving her is purely to snap her bf out of the trance that porn has put him in. After that, when his mind is calm, he can begin to understand what is happening to him and make choices to improve his sexual health. In addition, OP probably needs to get professional counseling or some other sort of mental health services for the trauma she has endured.

 

@StarRider it seems fairly obvious from your responses that you didn't read the OP well enough to understand her basic situation or line of questioning, and you have a general sense of contempt for her values and current Western culture in general.

She's not looking for "porn-like sex" and she doesn't have unrealistic expectations. Nothing about her description is pornographic or voyeuristic. If anything, what she describes is wanting a S relationship that is more focused on intimacy and less on intense physicality, which is the opposite of pornographic.

I admire your stated personal goals of NeverFap and NoBang prior to marriage. I admire your goal of being careful about who you marry. Projecting those expectations onto other people, especially people who were given no such values by their own family and culture, is unrealistic.

The relationship as described seems to be salvageable. P is obviously the problem, not either of the humans in this relationship, and the addict in question is potentially amenable to addressing that problem. Neither seems prepared to take the relationship trajectory you find ideal, but there is every indication the relationship could grow and be strengthened by eliminating a horrible, soul destroying addiction and that cannot be a bad thing.

 

Great troll bud.

Doesn't want to talk about porn addiction or sexual dysfunctions in a porn addiction and sexual health forum.

Gives advice and opinions on other people's lives without reading what is actually going on with them.

Tells people their situation cannot change in a forum dedicated to people changing their lives for the better.

Can't believe I didn't see your troll form from farther away. You fooled me. Bravo

 

Im pretty sure OP asked for advice about talking to her bf about his porn addiction, and people were responding with how to do that...so this is just wholly incorrect.

Have you like used NoFap before? People talk about shit related to their porn addictions to try and get specific help here. That is the primary purpose of this site. Sometimes you need to get into the nitty gritty to figure stuff out. If you went to the doctors saying you were sick and in pain, they ask where, and you say it's too painful to talk about, they won't be able to help you.

Also I'm pretty sure voyeurism is getting off by secretly watching other people doing sexy things, not talking about their sex lives on the internet. Might want to get a dictionary so we know what you really mean.

What are you trying to do? Do you have anything positive to add to these conversations? Besides of course dump the porn addict because he is defective, give up all hope for change or improvement, and accept God as your lord and savior. I'm sure Jesus would be very proud of the kindness and compassion you have shared with us today.