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Renewing spirituality

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by DohnJoe, Aug 23, 2021.

  1. DohnJoe

    DohnJoe Fapstronaut

    I live in the bible belt and grew up going to church on a regular basis. When I was in 3rd grade, my grandmother passed away, we began "church-surfing", and eventually, around 4th/5th grade, my family just stopped going. One of my older brothers who was already moved out of the house invited me to go to church with him a few times, and I went probably once every other month or so in middle school. I didn't enjoy it like I did when I was younger because there was hardly any youth to connect with and the average age of the church had to be around 60.

    Throughout middle school I started to really question the beliefs I was taught as a child. I discovered what the term 'agnostic' was, and I seemed to lean into those views more than those of a religion. But, if I was ever asked, I would always say I was Christian, knowing I really wasn't because I didn't 100% believe in God. Like, I wanted to believe, but I didn't have the faith because of all the different deep questions I had about Christianity. There is a rap song called "Ill Mind of Hopsin 7" that came out while I was in high school and whenever people asked about my beliefs I would tell them to listen to it, because it was exactly how I felt, but in song form.

    -How can a person in a remote tribe that has no outside human contact be saved? Do they automatically get to go to Heaven? Or are they just damned to hell? How are they supposed to know about a God not known to them?
    -What about the people who were alive before Christianity? Are they just screwed too?
    -How do I know Christianity is the right religion, because there are SO many other religions in the world.
    -Why are there so many different denominations within Christianity that believe in being 'saved' in different ways. Like some Baptists believe the only way to get to Heaven in the is through baptism. And that's taught in most Baptist churches I've been to. But other denominations don't believe in Baptism.
    -How can all this 'magic' happen back then, but nothing like that happens today?

    My first gf and I got together in the summer before my senior year. I knew she was a devoted Christian, and she knew how I felt about religion. She invited me to her church and I was so nervous, but I wanted to make her happy so I went. And honestly, after not going to church for so long, it genuinely felt so good and I felt at peace all day. It was a good feeling. I enjoyed the teachings and agreed with pretty much all of them, but I have a hard time believing in something I don't see. Anyway, I began going with her on a regular basis and I was trying to make myself believe, but I still had those questions and doubts in the back of my head. After being together for 3 years, she broke up with me for 2 main reasons - my P and M problem, and I think she knew I still wasn't 100% committed to God and practicing Christianity.

    I stopped going to church pretty much all together after that, but my parents began getting back into going. I would go very rarely with them. About 6 months later I met my 2nd gf and we agreed to start going to my parents' church about a year into our relationship. She grew up not going to church that often, but she still believed. I ended our relationship 2 years in, but it isn't related to religion. She still goes to the same church my parents go to.

    My mom keeps telling me I need to go, but I just don't have the desire. I feel like I have to put on a happy face and pretend like I'm so happy to be there and that gets draining to me. I just don't enjoy the sense of fakeness I get from some of the church members and the fakeness I feel I have to portray to be there and I dread going. Those people would not be that happy to see me shopping at Walmart, you know? Why just be that happy for 2 hours, and then shut it all off when you're off the church's campus. It's fake, that's why.

    Among these reasons, I just overall don't understand the Bible and I don't know a whole lot about the religion itself. Its kinda like when you're fat and you know you need to go to the gym, but the gym is for fit people, so you don't go. I kinda feel the same because I'm not spiritually fit.

    In the future I want to go to church with my wife and I want to raise my kids in the church, because I genuinely think it can make people the best they can be aside from God and all.

    Idk man... I just feel like I'm rambling now and this is all over the place, so I think I'm done. That's probably not all of what I got to say, but these are the main issues I'm having. Just wanted to get that off my chest
     
    Chris_Cactusblossom likes this.
  2. DominicNL

    DominicNL Fapstronaut

    I agree. Often it's fake, and if you feel in your heart it's fake, you can't give your heart, for you are faking it yourself.
    Don't be a mommy's boy and listen to her just because she wants it too.
    I don't mean for you to disrespect in her any way, you could with all respect reject her invitation to go her Church.

    You say you don't know much about the Bible.
    What I would suggest is you read the Bible every day, but just a bit.
    Let the material sink in, absorb it, but don't rush it.
    Take your time.

    And if you feel attraction when reading the bible, you can always explore other Churches, one that does align with your heart.
     
    DohnJoe likes this.
  3. Monkeyboyab2c

    Monkeyboyab2c Fapstronaut

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    Hi. First off I want to say I appreciate your honesty. You are actually in probably one of the best places you can be spiritually that you can be even though it feels uncomfortable. What it sounds like to me when I read your post is not that you are having a tough time believing in God but are having a very tough time mentally ascending to a very narrow set of beliefs about God. I was in a very similar place. I went to church for 25 years just kinda going through the motions all the time asking questions like “well if God is love like it says in John why does he send the vast majority of his creation to suffer eternally for a finite set of sins.” I also had the one about people who die before Christ. Or one of my favorites is why did Paul wait 10 years after Christ revealed himself to him to spread the Gospel to the gentiles. That’s 10 years worth of people going to hell. What kind of plan is that.

    Here’s where I’m at. And believe me I have a closer relationship to Christ now than I ever did before. There are a ton of different ways of looking at this stuff. Hence all the denominations you asked about. A huge percentage of the early Christians didn’t believe that hell was eternal. Look at the works of Origen or Gregory of Nysa first and second century thinkers who were absolutely brilliant. Gregory of Nysa was the guy who formulate the doctrine of the trinity. He’s kinda a big deal. The whole idea of salvation from an eternal hell wasn’t even that popular of an idea until Augustine of Hipo came on the scene in the 4th century and was a great way for the Roman Empire to control its population. The modern church puts such an emphasis on that doctrine but hell is only mentioned a handful of times and the one place where it says that it’s forever has a huge debate on weather that area is translated correctly.
    Believing a bunch of facts about God and having a relationship with God are two completely different things. I can tell you all about my dad and you could have all the facts about him and never actually meet him. If God is real and believe me I think he’s more real than anything, you can ask him to show you that he’s real and see what happens. I believe God put us here to have a relationship with his actual being not a set of facts that people say you should believe about him. It’s kinda hard to have a relationship with something you have no experience of. If you are interested ask for the experience. All the doctrine stuff will sort itself out if it’s even that important to you.
    I really believe that the modern church has it backwards. “Believe this stuff and God will come to you”. I kinda think it’s the other way around. Ask for a relationship see what happens and watch your life change.
    Personally I think the idea of sending my family to church without God behind it sounds more awful than that hell you are so concerned about. It’s like going to Disneyland and telling everyone they can’t ride the rides. What’s the point, morality for morality’s sake? Nothing could seem more pointless. If there is no God why be moral? Why is morality even important if we are just biological creatures with all the intrinsic worth of a fart in the wind.
    There are a lot of really great thinkers out there with the same questions you have had and still land on the idea of Christ as God. You are just looking in the butcher section of the supermarket saying that Bread doesn’t exist. There are tons of answers to these questions within the realm of Christendom. They might not be answers that line up with what you ex believes but chances are she probably doesn’t know why she believes what she believes. I’ve afound most Christians are simply willing to accept a set of beliefs wholesale because the guy who they got them from was a smart guy. I say you are in a great place because the minute I decided to give up on what I was given and let God move in my life how he wanted to, was when things started to get really interesting.
     
    DohnJoe and Chris_Cactusblossom like this.
  4. You're having a crisis of faith. This means it's time for you to look beneath the surface of your own religion. If you look into esoteric Christianity, the list of your questions will be answered. It could be a wild ride, but if you don't go on it, you'll never find the answers you're looking for. Ultimately, all religions meet in God. This is blasphemy to people who read Christianity on a literal level, but Scripture's designed to be read on 4 levels. When you start noticing irreconcilable inconsistencies in the outermost level, it's time to start digging deeper.
     
    DohnJoe likes this.
  5. DohnJoe

    DohnJoe Fapstronaut

    First of all, thanks for reading. I appreciate your insight. I think there are many people that go to church for the moral/ethical teachings, but may not necessarily believe in God. But, they go because they still want to be the best version of themselves and the church sort of acts like a mentor. The church pushes its attendees to go out and do good in their communities and be the best person they can be. Hopefully that makes sense. I understand where you are coming from, though. Here's an analogy: Its like a high school student, who goes through almost every grade in grade school, but decides to drop out. They still have all the knowledge and teachings, and are still smart, but they just don't have a diploma to show for it. I understand both sides, though. What's the point in getting so far, but not committing all the way. But, some people just don't want to believe in something that is invisible to them. Something that's not tangible and there isn't any proof, but just stories passed down from generation to generation.
     
    Chris_Cactusblossom likes this.
  6. I was thinking about your OP yesterday, and there's somewhere in the Bible that says that there are uncircumcised people who follow the law naturally, and circumcised people who don't follow the law. I know Jews are physically circumcised, but in this context, I think the author meant spiritually separated from the Gentiles. Which means there are Gentiles whose character and actions are naturally pleasing to God. People draw the distinction between the tribal, terrestrial Yahweh and the One God that's behind all religions, but again it's just different perspectives on the same Law. Abstract intellectual vs. literal everyday, versus first-hand mystical experience of God, which is what Christ and Paul and the prophets were relating. Hesychasm's one form of Christian mysticism you might like to look into (the original Naval Gazers!) if you're looking to find God, but it's not a path to be taken lightly, as Christ says somewhere in the Gospel ('Let the dead carry out their own dead', etc).
     
  7. I found the passage:

    Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness... etc.

    Then he talkes about the circumcision of the spirit. Some people are just naturally pleasing to God and live their lives right as human beings, regardless of whether or not they've received Scripture.
     

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