Trying to understand

Loveless1990, I’m not discouraging you from seeking support. In fact I think you should. I’m just saying don’t throw caution to the wind for the sake of it. And I have endured some pretty nasty consequences from it. Just be smart about it.

 

It may be a sign he loves and cares for her, but it also may be an excuse to continue doing pmo and hiding it. Many spouses on here would be more damaged by being an accountability partner, as in being the person to not only be told about the relapse but told so in detail. HOWEVER this does not mean that a spouse should not be told that relapse has happened. Many of us have boundaries in place to be informed of a relapse in x amount of hours or days because we do not want to be lied to anymore. Some of us have extremely firm boundaries on this (for example my boundary is that a relapse means we separate) others have more light boundaries on this (e.g. no shared bed, in home separation, etc). So in all of this I think it is very important for the spouse experiencing betrayal trauma to decide her/his boundaries on what they need to know regarding relapse and what the boundaries need to be.

For you personally, it may be helpful to find an accountability partner who is serious enough in supporting you that you are in fact held accountable for your actions and get support redirecting yourself back to your goals. Part of the point is finding someone whom you can go to to out of feeling ashamed. This addiction thrives on secrecy and lies. You need to be able to be honest to gain power over shame.

 

So, put yourself in his place. Something happened. You realize you just relapsed. It was a mistake. You wish you hadn't, and you feel great self-condemnation for having done so. You wish, actually, that you could find some support in a loving spouse in whom you could confide your deepest struggles. You love your spouse and the last thing you want to do is to separate--but if she knows, she will insist on it. Will you tell?

No. This policy of being "transparent" that leads to "death of the relationship" means HE WILL NOT TELL. He is forced to lie in an attempt to save the marriage.

You are asking for lies. You would rather not know the truth. He is not allowed to be open and transparent when even one stumble would end the relationship with you per your own demands. That is not a warm, loving, and safe relationship. He is not free to open his heart's deepest secrets with you in his quest for healing. Can he actually heal in an environment like this where if he does slip up he must conceal the fact?

Unfortunately, this kind of "hard boundary" may actually work opposite to its intent. It may have an enabling influence.

I'm not saying it's bad to have boundaries: boundaries are good. But we must be careful about where we set them so as not to destroy our relationships by being overly harsh. For example, suppose you have children, and you make a rule with them that if they ever get less than a "C" grade in school, they will be disowned and asked to leave your home. Do you think your children would ever tell you when they got a bad grade? Because they love you and want to remain in the family, and because they would greatly fear the consequences--neither knowing how they would survive on their own nor to whom they could turn for help in such a case, they would lie and cover up the truth. They would feel forced to do so. They might even go to great lengths to forge documents that were presented to you. And the bad grade might not even have been entirely their fault. They might wish very much that they could talk with you and get your support to help right the matter, but would be unable to do so on account of the iron rule that you have set. Such children would never be free to open their hearts to their parents--never would they be able to have a close, open and transparent relationship with them.

I'm not a porn addict. I've never been one. But I feel for the man who is in the hard place you appear to have put your husband. If I were in his shoes, I'm afraid that the fear of losing the relationship itself might weaken me and push me towards relapse. Once I'd slipped, I would never be able to tell the truth. Lies do hurt a relationship; but what's a man to do in a situation like that? Lie and he loses; tell the truth and he loses. It's a lose-lose; he'll take his chances with lying, I think, and simply hope the truth is never discovered. And he's lying for you--because he loves you.

 

Ummm… he doesn’t relapse? He doesn’t choose to cheat? You act like he is the a victim and doesn’t have a choice but to relapse. It’s a choice even though it’s an addiction. He chooses faithfulness and recovery, sobriety, rather than relapse and dishonesty. People do get into recovery and it’s their choice. They choose to work the programs, to put up safeguards, to get counseling and help. He must want recovery more than the relationship. Because recovery is what protects the relationship. If you have ever been on the receiving end of an addicts acting out, gaslighting, lying, you would understand that her boundaries are for her safety. It’s not like she wants this,. She needs to feel safe. Trust me, he’s never lying because he loves her, he’s lying to protect himself and his addiction. If he loved her he would protect her and not relapse. If he loved her he would be honest.

 

I'm glad that God doesn't reject me after I've failed just once. I may not be a porn addict, but I'm certainly still a sinner, and I make mistakes. Sometimes stupid mistakes. Fortunately for me, God won't send me packing, forever ending the relationship, if I have slipped. I sure appreciate 1 John 1:9--I'm able to confess to Him, be truly forgiven, and then cleansed from it. It's a three-step process--and I don't know how I would reach step three if you took away the first two.

 

You can forgive without staying in an unfaithful, dishonest relationship. Separation/divorce does not mean she doesn’t forgive him, it means she can’t stay in the relationship for her own health and safety. Addiction is far different than a one time mistake. Very few partners leave after a one time, two time, three time mistake , they leave after years, even decades of deception and unfaithfulness and lying. Most SO’s are incredibly forgiving. They leave when they can no longer stand the pain of their partners addiction.

 

To be honest, I'm struggling to understand the implications of this. Can God "forgive" me and still reject me? Does God "forgive" the people to whom the words are addressed: "I never knew you; depart from me ye workers of iniquity?" Would that kind of "forgiveness" have any merit or meaning at all?

On one side, I understand what you are saying. On another side, I cannot make sense of it. After years of marriage, after countless admonitions, my wife still runs my clothes through the laundry without checking the pockets. Not too long back I lost someone's contact information, and have no way of getting it back, because the business card was in my shirt pocket. I have told her time and again to check pockets before washing the clothes. She still refuses to do so. My mother taught me to do this as standard practice--but my wife is obstinate and will not do it. You might think it's a small matter, and perhaps it is; but it hurts me that she doesn't love me enough to even care about it. She doesn't care if I'm happy. She doesn't care if I lose important contact information. She doesn't show me one ounce of love in this matter. I've already forgiven her many times. Maybe we've gotten to 490 times now--should I just "forgive" her but seek a divorce?

 

Forgetting to empty pockets is a far cry from repeatedly betraying a spouse with infidelity and lies. I’m sorry, I don’t understand how you can even compare these two things. You walking in on your wife masturbating with someone else in cams is a better analogy, and she just won’t stop. Or forgiving multiple emotional affairs. Why don’t you just do your own laundry? My husband does his because he doesn’t like the way I do laundry. Problem solved. My children do their own laundry. It’s a very simple solution.

 

Ya know I had typed up a long response and just deleted it. Not worth the time. Do your own laundry!

 

I realize that the two examples are rather different. There's not really much that one could compare on the same level, to be honest. But if the woman will not share the marriage bed, should the man do his own thing then, too? This wasn't really about the laundry. It is all about a much deeper issue: love.

 

Except the man will answer to God for his actions within the marriage and so will the woman. There is no excuse for infidelity. Not even when my husband failed to meet my needs because he was busy masturbating to porn. No matter how desperately I wanted companionship, love, sex, intimacy, bonding. I took those things to God, not another man. Although I was sorely tempted at times. It’s not always the man who is getting rejected in the marital bed you know.

 

Why would it be "poison" for you to be able to confess your wrongs and be forgiven? You don't want to be forgiven for the mistakes of your past?

 

If religion isn’t helpful then why is it part of the treatment protocol at sexual addiction treatment facilities around the world? If you are religious it is a very important part of your recovery. Declaring that it is poison is ridiculous. So to make a blanket statement that it isn’t helpful isn’t helpful.

And where are those messages from stegiss people are responding to? I don’t see them.

 

I dont agree. My husband and I are maybe intimate once a month or every few months, sometimes even longer, and that is by choice. We are stronger now than we were when we were first married. Removing sex from the marriage for extended time periods actually improved our relationship. If we decided to never have sex again, our marriage would still have a strong foundation because it is built on connection.
So's are allowed to heal in ways they feel works best for them. If not having sex because she is hurt, or not laying in the bed with him is best for her, she is allowed to make those choices. Blame shouldn't be placed on her for making those choices nor should anyone make her feel as though those choices are what caused the marriage to end, should it end. What we do is in response to what is done to us. Things we didn't ask for. She doesn't feel safe. Why would she further traumatize herself by doing something that makes her unsafe? For his benefit?

With that out of the way, good job on your current streak!

 

Yes, of course. That's what marriage is--it's "other" focused. If you are not desiring what is best for your "significant other," then you are too selfish to be marriage material and should not be entering into holy matrimony to begin with. Marriages are not strengthened by selfishness. They are strengthened by selfless acts of love.

Extremely few men would be content in a sexless marriage. Less than about three times a month is virtually in that category, and you're content with once every few months? That is a sexless marriage. Perhaps your husband is "helping" himself. In any case, your advice, if followed, would prove ruinous to the happiness of many couples.

Sex is not evil. Selfishness is. You have put your selfishness on display by questioning whether or not a woman should regard her husband's well-being or seek to benefit him. What did you vow at your wedding? To love, honor, and cherish...him? If you didn't vow to love him, perhaps you can be excused for not desiring his benefit. In that case, however, yours is a tragic marriage that should not serve as a model for true love.

 

Still gaslighting the SO's I see. *eyeroll

 

Our idea of having a marriage where sex wasn't a thing was due to the neuroscience behind what porn does to the brain and how everytime we did, it never helped his recovery. It was like an alcoholic trying to get by with little shots of whiskey here and there. The chaser effect was strong.

 

Yes, they are. But the dopaminergic system is the same. How much or how little sleep he gets is irrelevant in our experience.

I get that our method is scary and goes against what people feel aligns with their belief system. I also understand that people will fight to defend their belief systems when faced with what they perceive is a danger to it. However, it is what works for us and I know we are not the only couple in the world that has chosen this route.

 

"Judge not lest the be judged"???? You have nothing to offer that is truly balanced when it comes to a relationship. All your arguments are husband centered, and you don't even recognize that. It is truly sad, but you are set in your ways. You are utterly selfish in your POV and you cannot even see that.

By the way, I am the husband of @DefendMyHeart. Just so you know my wife is the least selfish person I know. Am I being biased in that case? I am not, no. I have watched humbly and attentively in her responses to people that need help. We are not in any especially good place financially, but there are people in much worse situations than us. She would rather send money to someone who hasn't eaten in a few days than ensure that we have our favorite meal everyday or whatever the case may be. I on the other hand got angry about this, but why should I be angry? There is absolutely no reason to be.

I am of very sound mind when it comes to not having sex. Hell, I don't even care if we have sex ever again. That does not mean, however, that we are not intimate. That does not imply that our marriage is nothing. Sex is a small thing. If you allowed yourself the opportunity to be truly selfless (you are not) you would see that you don't need sex. It is all a play in the collective mind of which you have become a slave to and you cannot see it.

Lastly, no. I don't "help" myself. That mindset that I need that sort of "help" is a trap. I have no pressing desire for that. My desire is in connection to the deeper aspects of life, furthermore, life in union with my wife. Without the supposed need for sex I am free to truly enjoy the company of my wife within EVERY moment; I am not just waiting everyday to pop one off.

You can't see that because you think with your penis rather than your brain.