1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

A cheater always a cheater?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by modern milarepa, Oct 14, 2021.

  1. happenstance

    happenstance Fapstronaut

    361
    353
    63
    How is that victim blaming? I just posed a question. That's your answer? Victim blaming? Yes it's all bad. Do you not find it highly judgmental for people who routinely engage in PMO to pass judgment on their SO for committing adultery? I find it appalling. Yes the hypocrisy is thick. If I were to cheat then yes I would be solely responsible for that. It was my choice to cheat. It was his choice to cheat. I never cast blame. I just wondered if any of you spewing this bullshit gave any consideration as to why we would consider cheating in the first place. It's because you treat us like shit and expect us to keep swallowing it. JSYK as a victim myself I know first hand what it's like to be blamed for what my husband has done. There is a term for that and it is called gaslighting.
     
  2. p1n1983

    p1n1983 Fapstronaut

    951
    1,181
    123
    No, for many reasons.
    1- You are not longer going to trust in her. There is no way you are going to have a health relationship without trust.
    2- She cheating on you is a big sign that her attraction to you is really low. Don't waste time with people that have low attraction to you.
    3- If you forgive her, her actions of cheating are not going to get consecuences, so she is going to know that she can get away with it, she is going to loose respect from you and probably will do it again.
    4- Cheating on you is a big disrespectull act, is the worst thing that a girlfriend can do to you.
    5- If you value yourselve and monogamy, then you want a woman by your side that also value monogamy. So If she cheats on you she clearly don't value monogamy like you do, you should better go and find a woman that is more aligned with your values.

    Reason 3. Yes.

    In your particular case you are totally tempted to cheat, if not you wouldn't care and ex is going to be in town and you even think about going out with her.
    If I found out that my SO go out with her ex to "see what happens", it doesn't matter that nothing happens in the end, i will definitevely end the relationship rigth there and go and look for a woman that will never dare going out with and ex just because she respect me and only want to be with me.

    No, in general when a woman cheat on you she is totally out of love from you, and she is probably looking for a replacement.
    When a man cheats he can still be in love with his woman but he don't feel remorse banging another woman just because he got turned on.
    Like it or not, both are people without integrity that deserve to get dumped rigth on the spot. Both don't belive in monogamy and in most cases they think that everybody is cheater so they don't feel remorse when they cheat, only when they get cought.

    People that cheat also are people that are insecure, and can't be alone. Need to always have other person in his/her life to feel good about themselves, so when things are not going good with their current partner, they start looking for a replacement in case things end with his/her partner.
    Cheaters can be exclusive to another person while the relationships is good, but once it start to get bad it probably they are going to cheat again.
     
    modern milarepa and muhagg like this.
  3. Cyberpunk3000

    Cyberpunk3000 Fapstronaut

    222
    332
    63
    I can totally empathize with your situation. And the resentment you have which you are justifying to cheat on your partner.

    But its unacceptable in any way unless your partner did anything physically with someone else.
    If porn and imagination are considered cheating and you are using it to physically cheat on your partner rather than discuss it and work it out and it it doesn't give your SO an ultimatum and then leave. As simple as that.
    Physically cheating on your SO as a revenge and justifying it is appalling. He has an addiction and need help and support. And despite that if it doesn't work....JUS LEAVE! HE ISNT WORTH IT. But justifying cheating in this scenario is BS.

    There are times, when every couple fantasies about their fav celebrity or someone they were attracted to during sex, jus one of situation or rare occasions. So would you be bum rushing to cheat on your partner saying he fantasised??

    So does it mean you have a cheating addiction? Do you need help and support for that?

    In my case, I gave a chance to someone who had cheated in their past.
    But I took 2 years time to even consider a relationship. And we were together for 7 years
    Also she knew full well of my porn use. Had no problems with it throughout the relationship. She even insisted we watch porn during sex which I was not into.
    Once we were together. There were good times and bad times like every relationship.

    I have had my depression phase on and off at times. At times I had anger issues. But they resolved.

    I supported her career during transition from corporate to modelling and acting when she had no support from her family or friends.
    Even when she wanted to call it quits when she couldn't make it to the countries national paegants due to internal favortisim, I didn't let her give up..asked her to continue for one more year.

    And in the next 8 months things start to happen. She signs her first project.
    Things are still fine. I am the best boyfriend ever to her!
    She ckuldnt have done it without me. That we were the best couple.
    Signs the second project...by then gets attention from small reality show star and gets a tiny bit of vanity. Her circle grows in the industry.
    Within a span of two months....she cheats on me with the guy.
    And gaslights me that I didn't treat her right and accuses me of petty things. Not even her friends could accept the reasons that she was accusing me off. And that they weren't even a genuine reason.
    In fact she never confessed to cheating.
    Called it off jus like that saying that "I TREATED HER LIKE SHIT" and that she desreves better. Also kept me away from having sex, saying she had "fungal issues" in the months of cheating. Once I insisted that we better do it and am ok with whatever she is carrying as I started feeling abnormal about the situation. To such extent she had gone.

    Had to go to some lengths to find out as my gut instinct said otherwise..
    And finally when I confronted her in front of her friends with proof, she was caught red handed. She confessed that she cheated on me and that I was at NO FAULT and I always was supportive and treated her right. And that she started having feelings for the other person.

    Btw, jus before she broke it off....I had so many red flags that I knew something was off. So one day I questioned her, why did she cheat on his last partner.
    WAS HE ABUSIVE OR WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT HE DID EHICH MADE HER DO IT.
    Her reply was, there was jus no reason. He was really good and Caring all through.
    Jus that she happen to fall for the new person. And I got the same reply in the the end.

    During our relationship I have got enough chances to cheat. Once got offered to a threesome. But I denied the offer and informed her about it. There was an instance when one girl was so into me and my ex threw a huge tantrum and made sure that I never spoke to her despite being office colleagues. And at the end, she is the one whoring around.

    I even offered her chance to salvage the relationship.

    But the reply she gave was....I still have feelings for the other person. I can't be with you.

    And within next 6 months they aren't together.

    so once a cheater ALWAYS A FUCKING CHEATER!
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
    modern milarepa and muhagg like this.
  4. happenstance

    happenstance Fapstronaut

    361
    353
    63
    Did I say I had resentment? I never did won’t and never will justify cheating. Ever. I simply explained why they would do it. That hardly justifies it. Don’t put words in my mouth.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree with this whole physically nonsense. If you’re going have sex with her in your head you may as well go have sex with her in person. To us it makes no difference. It’s the same thing. I don’t particularly care if you agree or not but ask any woman on here. They’ll tell you it’s the same thing. Just because you have a y chromosome doesn’t make you the be all end all authority on it. It doesn’t matter anyway. If we perceive it as cheating it’s cheating.

    You can stop with this cheating addiction nonsense and insinuating that I advocate cheating. It’s a blatant lie.

    Your anger issues resolved? How so? The perception of your dialog paints a very different picture than the one you’re trying to convey with respect to your girlfriend. If you were the best boyfriend ever, couldn’t have done it without me, we were the best couple, blah, blah, blah. I’m sure she would still be there. Whatever. I don’t care. Just stop putting words in my mouth.

    I think it’s safe to say we’ve all looked at an attractive person and thought “wow they’re really good looking”. Never once have I thought I’d like to have sex with him nor did I ever fantisize about another man during sex. That’s pretty messed up.
     
  5. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

    4,195
    7,774
    143
    This! If you use porn you are selfish, self absorbed, negligent and thoughtless. That numb feeling you get, foggyness, lethargy, you think that doesnt seep out in every aspect of your life? You think you’re embarrassed when you can’t get it up? Do you know what your partner feels? First she reassures you it’s ok, as time goes by she knows she’s not attractive to you and she wonders who you are thinking about, who you are “ doing” in your mind, why she isn’t enough. She’s being neglected in almost every aspect of the relationship and tries to talk about it, and she’s told how good she has it with you, that she’s the problem and imagining things. She should leave you and never is cheating ok. Just understand that porn addiction always contributes to the death of a relationship. Any addiction would. She shouldn’t have cheated, just as you shouldn’t be using other women to get sexual satisfaction while unable to be intimate with her because of it.
     
  6. ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved

    ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved Fapstronaut

    940
    1,279
    123
    1. Yes, watching porn is cheating. Husbands (and wives) who do it are wrong, and in my opinion it is grounds for divorce, especially if there is no attempt to change the behavior or recognition that it is a huge problem.

    2. I may have misread your quote, but it still reads to me as victim blaming. "If she cheats on you rest assured it's not exactly because you were treating her like a partner. If you were she wouldn't give it an ounce of consideration." Maybe you weren't referring to a universal "you" but that's how I read it. I took it as, "if a woman cheats on you, you probably did something to deserve it (you said 'it's not because you were treating her like a partner')". Then when you said, "if you were she wouldn't give it an ounce of consideration," I read that to mean, "If you were a good partner, then your wife wouldn't have cheated on you."

    3. You seem to confirm this by saying, "I just wondered if any of you spewing this bullshit gave any consideration as to why we would consider cheating in the first place." There's a problem with that: I don't like when people start to "explore" the reasons why someone would cheat. Yes, treat your partner well and they will feel better about the relationship. But EVERYONE, has a personal responsibility to abide by their honor. "Exploring" the reasons someone would want to cheat ultimately becomes a way of shaming the person who was cheated on. If I was a horrible husband, (I'm not married) I would want my wife to divorce me and then find a better man. She would not have any right to cheat on me. Vice versa is true also.

    4. You might not intend to, but please don't throw the "gaslighting" term around. It has a very specific meaning. Two people having a disagreement or misunderstanding is not gaslighting. Heck, blaming another person for something is not always gaslighting—sometimes it's genuinely just a difference of opinion. Yes, if your husband has blamed you for his own obvious problems, that is wrong and it can become gaslighting. But the term can quickly become a tool used to shut other people down and make it so that ANYTHING they say is "manipulative" when in reality they are just giving their point of view.

    5. I say all this as someone who has also been a "victim" of repeated lies and blame. We have to be careful that we don't become the people who hurt us.
     
    muhagg and Psalm27:1my light like this.
  7. ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved

    ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved Fapstronaut

    940
    1,279
    123
    Sorry dude, that sucks. Hopefully now you've learned that PMO in a relationship isn't right either. But you're where you are at now. And obviously that doesn't at all excuse what that chick did to you. I'm glad you're not in her web anymore.
     
  8. Cyberpunk3000

    Cyberpunk3000 Fapstronaut

    222
    332
    63
    Thanks for the kind words man.
    The thing i was never aware of what was pmo doing to me. Growing up I was made aware of the harms of smoking, alcohol, drugs, prostitution. To this day I have never indulged in any of the vices.
    But not once I was told that porn was wrong and that it could lead to menacing harms in one's life. It wasn't until Gary Wilson, Gabe deen and Noah b Church came out with their findings and recovery stories. Porn was and is passed on as sex positive and ppl jus smirk about it and don't speak out.
    It just dumbed me down like a zombie. I was doing it out of habit, as I have the tendency to collect stuff more than it was giving me pleasure, I was a digital hoarder coupled with ocd.
    I totally know now that pmo isn't right, be it in a relationship or being single.
    Its fucking poison. It dumbs you down and keeps u from reaching your potential. I am totaly against porn and masturbation even without porn. Either you have sex as nature intended, with your partner or you jus don't.

    I wish I had bumped into nofap a bit earlier. Or someone had informed me that porn could wreak havoc in one's life. But the moment I got to know, I snapped out of it. It was really tough. But i have been porn free for 18 months. Pmo free 12 months. Pmo+wet dreams free 5 months.

    But I'd clarify that pmo wasn't the reason for my relationship to fall apart. She did what she did, being the serial cheater she is. Its jus who she is.
    Because even if I was someone who never used porn. She would have done it.
     
  9. ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved

    ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved Fapstronaut

    940
    1,279
    123
    Amen to everything you said.
     
    Cyberpunk3000 likes this.
  10. happenstance

    happenstance Fapstronaut

    361
    353
    63
    Defensive much boys? That's exactly how an addict would react.

    One last time because you aren't getting it.

    I do not believe there is any justification for cheating under any circumstances. Ever!

    Now go see how you can twist that around and turn it into something else besides what I said.

    And please don't make me have to define for you what cheating is because obviously we're not on the same page with that either.
     
    modern milarepa likes this.
  11. Can you define cheating then so we can confirm if we are on the same page regarding that.
     
  12. happenstance

    happenstance Fapstronaut

    361
    353
    63
    Are you serious? You’re really going to make me have to define it?

    I believe I’ve seen it posted here before. I can’t remember exactly how it was worded but it goes something like this:

    It makes no difference whether it is hiding money, having sex, doing drugs, watching porn, etc. etc. etc. It makes no difference whether you acknowledge that it is cheating if we feel like it is cheating. It makes no difference whether you believe it is cheating or not. It is cheating. If you won’t do it in front of us then don’t do it behind our back either. Otherwise it is cheating.

    Is that clear enough for you?
     
    modern milarepa likes this.
  13. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

    4,195
    7,774
    143
    When you cheat you are no longer trustworthy and your partner should be someone you trust- when you use a woman (porn) to get sexually fulfilled with fantasies and masturbation and your partner feels like you are cheating by doing that, then you either leave the relationship or stop cheating. If you do it behind her back you not only cheat but lie. She looks at you and cannot forget that you have spent years pretending to screw other people. She no longer trusts you and it will never be the same. You cheated her out of a healthy relationship in the same way as an affair, but in some ways worse. As she ages you find her unattractive because porn actresses not only stay young they are air brushed. She cannot give you the “ high” of cheating with someone else ( another woman on a screen is still another woman)she will see how it affects the relationship but you won’t because you are numbed out by your addiction to other women and the pretend world of sex they offer you.. she feels crazy because you invalidate her feelings because YOU don’t see it as cheating. Cheating is whatever you as a couple decide. If you feel as the man that her secretly meeting an old boyfriend and kissing goodbye is cheating then it is. She secretly meets him on a daily basis, but all they do is talk. You ask her to stop but she won’t, in fact she cancels events with you to sneak off and meet him. They never have sex. Ever. She swears. You can see that she doesn’t look at you with the same desire. She isn’t there for you. But she runs off to meet this guy any time he calls. She explains they are just friends and he needs her..she’s been friends since they were 8. They only dated 6 months when she realized he wasn’t good for her and now they are just friends. You doubt she’s telling the truth because she has lied repeatedly about meeting him in the past. You don’t understand, she says she loves you but you explained how this felt and she continues. It’s not cheating to her, she loves you and he’s just a friend. Seriously you can have a married couple who swing and it’s not considered cheating because they both know and they both follow certain rules.if your partner doesn’t care about pmo then no it’s not cheating. If your partner cares or you hide it then it’s cheating. Just be up front and tell your partner about your porn use. If you think it’s no big deal, then let her know in the same way you would/should talk about money, drug use, if you just want to hook up or you’re looking for a life partner..
     
  14. ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved

    ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved Fapstronaut

    940
    1,279
    123
    I think that definition is interesting...it definitely gets at something about cheating. But it's not a full definition...if a person decides to get food from a particular restaurant without asking his/her partner is that cheating? It would be by the definition you gave. By the same token, what if both partners agree that watching porn is ok? Technically, they are both "in the loop" and by your definition they would not be cheating. But the reality is that they are putting their lust for others ahead of each other, which to me would be cheating. I'm not nitpicking, I genuinely think your definition is interesting, but that it just doesn't get to the heart of the issue.
     
  15. happenstance

    happenstance Fapstronaut

    361
    353
    63
    Good grief do I have to go back and dig up the full definition from my notes for you to get it for Christ sake? What part of "I can’t remember exactly how it was worded but it goes something like this" don't you understand? I said it goes something like this. You've done this multiple times now. You've taken something I've said and reworded it in your own twisted interpretation of it. It reminds me of my husband. Now I just say something to him and have him repeat it back to me and tell me what it means to him that I said so that I know for certain that we don't have a miscommunication.

    The whole food analogy is preposterous. If both agree to watch porn together I think it's already been answered previously. And yes you are. You're nitpicking. Have you got a better definition? Lay it out there instead of criticizing mine which wasn't mine btw and was written by someone who is much smarter than I am about it. I can't even believe we're having this conversation over semantics over the definition of cheating. Psalm27 did a great job explaining it. See if that helps you understand it better.
     
  16. ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved

    ImASinnerWhoJesusSaved Fapstronaut

    940
    1,279
    123
    I assure you I did not mean to upset you. My critique of the definition was not a critique of you...I understand that you did not write it. I simply like to think about things and determine whether they are accurate descriptions of reality or not. And I agree, I also think Psalm did a nice job of getting at what cheating really is.

    It is not right for you to be angry. Coming from a person who struggles with overreacting/getting bent out of shape about silly things, it really is a problem that is worth addressing in your own personal life.
     
  17. happenstance

    happenstance Fapstronaut

    361
    353
    63
    IAmASinnerWhoJesusSaved, just because you don't necessarily like what I had to say or how I said it does not mean that I am angry. I'm not upset. You'll know when I'm upset.

    I do find it frustrating dealing with people who try to tell me what I think or how I feel or how I should think or feel or worse what I meant because you obviously have no clue as if I had said it in Tuscarora. It's a language. Go look it up.

    Even if I was angry, it wouldn't be because you critiqued the definition. It would because I actually had to go through the exercise of defining it to begin with after I explicitly said "please don't make me have to define it". I mean, WTF! So then I had to explain it and then you proceeded to tell me what I meant.

    Cheating is not that difficult to understand and all of you addicts want to split hairs over it. You make assumptions based entirely on your perception and your perception is all about you. Not me.

    You would know if I was angry. I just don't mince words. A very wise man taught me that.

    Now this "Coming from a person who struggles with overreacting/getting bent out of shape about silly things, it really is a problem that is worth addressing in your own personal life." Again, this is not about me. This is all about you. You're projecting your own internal wounds onto me, and it's not about me. Don't do that. Incidentally what you're doing? It's not silly things. I hope you're not doing it to your SO.

    I'm not angry, but do this enough times and I will be. Since you do struggle with it I do have a great resource if you're interested in it.

    Last if you learn nothing else when you're learning about recovery please make certain you learn that anger is a perfectly reasonable and acceptable emotion. Don't tell anyone that it is not right for them to be angry. You don't get to dictate someone else's emotions period. That is denying them the right to feel the way that they feel. And that is not right. That is wrong. Their emotions are are theirs and theirs alone.

    I'm not going to try to explain it anymore. Either you guys get it or you don't want to get it. I've got too much to do to be continuously cross examined over something as ridiculously simple as cheating. If you don't like the definition go find your own. But don't be surprised if your SO doesn't embrace it either.
     
    modern milarepa likes this.
  18. modern milarepa

    modern milarepa Fapstronaut

    I really love this thread I always believed women are naturally more smart and wise about sex than men. I can see it here very clearly.

    Specially the concept of cheating related to porn and simply hiding things from your SO. In us men that is not so ingrained.

    It's the nature of man to spread its seed to as many women as possible to increase it's genetic legacy.

    You can see how animals do it usually the male alpha lion has many females just for him.

    Women are not so prone to have children from different men. From a primitive stand point.

    I mean we are rational creatures but our biology is thousands of years older than our rationality.

    So it puts the question if we men are programmed to cheat or to have many women?

    And are women prone naturally to be monogamous or it's just social repression?
     
    Cyberpunk3000 likes this.
  19. I didn't ask you to give as someone else's definition of cheating I asked you to give as yours.
    Either way the definition you mentioned is to general to even be considered. So if forget to do the dishes one time I am cheating?

    This would be the correct/formal definition of cheating
    Infidelity (synonyms include cheating, straying, adultery, being unfaithful, or having an affair) is a violation of a couple's emotional and/or sexual exclusivity that commonly results in feelings of anger, sexual jealousy, and rivalry.
     
    Cyberpunk3000 likes this.
  20. Cyberpunk3000

    Cyberpunk3000 Fapstronaut

    222
    332
    63
    Man, don't waste your time and mental energy.
     
    muhagg likes this.

Share This Page