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PMO simply seems to be the most enjoyable thing to do in the house.

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by skaterdrew, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    The internet without porn
    Watching tv
    Listening to Music
    Gaming
    Reading
    House work
    DIY
    Cooking
    Learning, playing an instrument

    As it turns out none of these things come close to the enjoyment I experience from PMO. I simply seem to find PMO by far the most enjoyable thing to do in the house.
     
    jcl1990, darkernight and Ghost79 like this.
  2. Kevodrag

    Kevodrag Fapstronaut

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    Yep, nothing wrong with liking something more than others.
    “Liking” something like PMO is not necessary a preference, it’s an impulsive behavior

    you do not like PMO
     
    darkernight likes this.
  3. An0nym0use1234

    An0nym0use1234 Fapstronaut

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    Where would PMO fall on the scale if you instead rated those activities by productivity/long term satisfaction?
     
  4. I do agree with this sentiment, and that's why there's something called 'dopamine detox'.

    I don't mean the one where you sit in a room doing nothing, and not eating or drinking anything but water, but the detox where you replace with PMO with other activities. The idea is that you learn to start enjoying doing other things. Basically, it's tricking your mind into liking other things, because you keep doing them consistently.

    Trying it myself starting with TV. Watching two shows, and then instead of just watching any random thing after, I switch it off and read fiction on my Kindle until I go to bed.
     
    An0nym0use1234 and darkernight like this.
  5. Thats it my friend, i am also in same coom matrix. I am also suffering this thing. So i may tell you the solution to it .

    Its breaking the comfort zone and use your life. Don't stay at the fucking house. Go out, find something, lets taste some adventure. If you stay at home you will be doomed again.
     
    darkernight likes this.
  6. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    Are you surprised?

    P is a super stimulus. We know this. The revolving images of hyper-idealized people in hyper-idealized contexts do all the things that are impossible in real life but trick our brains into thinking are attainable, it's better at shooting straight dopamine into your brain than anything else. You aren't going to get the same high from any of those other things.

    I notice you didn't mention working out. I run, a lot of guys lift. However you choose to do it, working out 1. makes a huge distraction from your boredom/stimulus seeking. It's harder to think about how bad you want P when your heart is screaming for air, or you're straining to push that last two inches to finish a set. 2. provides a cocktail of hormones, including but not limited to dopamine, that have been proven to improve overall mental health. That reduces future triggers.

    Exercise is, I believe, a key component to quitting P. Try it. 15 mins every day, minimum, and make it intense. If it doesn't work, I dunno, burn me at the stake. Call me nasty names, I don't care. Or, you know, don't. And keep saying "I've tried everything!" when you know you haven't, and the truth is you've tried everything that hasn't inconvenienced you or required a little short term pain and sacrifice for a greater future gain.
     
    Abel100%, Reborn16, jcl1990 and 3 others like this.
  7. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    What chemical rush or "high" feeling do you even get from P though. I don't consider the anxious and panic feeling to find the "right" clip combined with the sense of impending doom of what comes after as some kind of amazing super dopamine boost. The so called "super-stimulus" isn't super in that it makes you feel so good, it's only super in its ability to destroy you.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  8. skaterdrew

    skaterdrew Fapstronaut

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    If what you're saying was true, no one would have any interest in PMOing, taking drugs etc. If these things didn't give anyone any pleasure, enjoyment, and only caused the type of pain you describe, no one would have any interest in doing these things in the first place. These things clearly cause a chemical rush, high feeling, pleasure, enjoyment that entice people to want to do these things in the first place, and then later the negative consequences follow.
     
  9. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    I do not think people get addicted to P because of some great and amazing high it gives.
    P kills your ability to feel arousal and MO, even though the entire idea behind it is that in enhances MO. I believe people get hooked through the process of escalation and the anxiety and negative feelings produced. Feelings that appear to only be quelled by P. It's more about seeming need rather than pleasure, similar to taking pills to sleep.
     
    darkernight likes this.
  10. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    Are you kidding me? Why would anyone look at P, especially those of us who decided P is detrimental, unless it did something for us? Consciously or subconsciously, nobody ever does something that only messes them up. We're getting something out of it, even if we know on some level that we're trading pleasure in the moment for suffering in the future. Denying this, pretending P doesn't fill some kind of need, might trick your conscious brain and you might feel on some level that it will help motivate you to quit, but your limbic, lizard brain is not fooled. You. Need. Dopamine. As a guy with a dopamine deficiency, I can't tell you how much you need it, and P gives it. It starts before you even look, just the anticipation of looking at it queues you up, makes you feel good. Then you start looking, and more dope hits your system, then, you find that special clip or you settle for whatever's in front of you, and you finish it off, and a massive flood of short-term happy time feel good hormone douses your brain. But it wears off fairly quick.

    I know because I can physically feel dopamine in my brain when it hits in sufficient doses. Sounds insane, I know, but I do. I first noticed the sensation when doing PMO as a younger guy, but I didn't pay much attention to it. It wasn't until earlier, when I started this strong push to quit this April, that I started noting it, and associating it with dopamine. It's a cold sensation that comes in a wave, similar to goosebumps running down your arm. I sometimes feel it when I'm exercising hard, sometimes when I'm particularly pleased with something I'm doing. Sometimes it runs over the top, slightly left side of my head, sometimes down behind my ears and wrapped behind my head.
    I'm relatively certain I'm/we're on a constant dopamine drip, it's just a question of how much in response to what behavior. Something looks interesting, in part because dopamine rewards you for checking out things your brain hasn't categorized to your satisfaction. If you like looking at fire or are fascinated by snakes, that's an outsized reward for paying attention to something that could harm you. Dopamine is keeping you safe. If you convince yourself that fire is contained, and you don't need to look at it because you have better things to do, you get dopamine for ignoring it and going about your day as a reward for prioritizing your time.

    That's how you interact with P, because you are fully convinced P has a strong detrimental effect, and that is 100% true. That anxiety, though, has nothing to with P itself. It's the cortisol, the stress hormone, triggered by your absolute belief that this activity is going to do more harm than good. Your immediate need for dopamine is fighting with your concern over your future self. Craving P gives you both an eager anticipation for dopamine, a positive, helpful hormone to need, and cortisol, a negative but also helpful hormone, because it teaches you what to avoid. That love/hate relationship with P on a deep, chemical level makes addicts of all kinds extremely conflicted people.

    If you are familiar with the Marvel character Venom, that might help conceptualize the dynamic. The alien creature is loud, pushy, impulsive, and ultimately, self destructive. He needs brains, and he's not exactly wrong. He needs them. He can't survive without them. But he isn't exactly smart about the way he goes about getting them. Left to his own devices, he creates a path of destruction and mysterious bodies that will get noticed, people will eventually see something is going on, and they will find and destroy him. Eddie Brock is Venom's symbiotic pair, his conscious being. Brock holds Venom in check. Brock says, not right now, not those brains, and Brock hides the bodies when he can't control Venom any longer. Some versions of Venom show the character cooperating with Brock fairly well, other versions have Brock strictly acting as damage control while the alien rampages across the city, destroying buildings and all of the relationships Brock values. They share a body, though, and one can argue that Venom does enrich Brock's life, in a way. Venom enables Brock to experience things he never could otherwise, gives him an insane brand of courage, opens new opportunities, you know what? I'm getting lost in the weeds. You can hate your own Venom, your limbic system that craves dopamine and gets satisfied through the problematic practice of devouring human brains/watching porn. You can even deny he exists, if you want, but that will be an exercise in futility because he does exist. Or, you can accept that he's there and learn how to accommodate him without feeding him porn. Like I said, exercise provides dopamine, and that's not all it provides. It gives you a lot of chemicals that improve your overall physical and mental health. That means it provides immediate dopamine that curbs your craving that you'd otherwise satisfy with P, and it leaves you feeling good enough in the longer term so that you don't crave so much dopamine and, consequently P, in the future. There's lots of other ways to get dopamine that aren't P, it's just your previous self has learned that P is an easy, plentiful source and has gotten lazy.

    Dammit man, I did not mean to type this much, but I hyperfocus when I'm writing because I get dopamine from that. Congrats on 80 days my dude, you are a beast, I hope you keep doing better than I've been.
     
    Abel100% and jcl1990 like this.
  11. Don'tLookBack

    Don'tLookBack Fapstronaut

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    You need dopamine in healthy levels. The dopamine that we get from P is bad for us because that type of rush is only supposed to happen during real sex with a partner that you actually love and are loyal to, not when our eyes are glued to the screen looking at some pixels in a dark room.
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  12. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    True story. With a real partner you also get lots of oxytocin, a bonding hormone you get with skin-to-skin contact. There's probably lots of other stuff going on that I don't know about, like with exercise, that doesn't happen when it's just raw dopamine through that screen.
     
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  13. Don'tLookBack

    Don'tLookBack Fapstronaut

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    Yeah. I hear about all this dopamine detox stuff and it sounds very ill-informed. Dopamine is just a pleasure chemical. We get dopamine from seeing our counter go up in days. I think instead of trying to abstain from dopamine, maybe we should find a healthy balance for our brains to function better.
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  14. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    Dopamine is a natural and inherent chemical that is an absolute necessity it our brain. And yes, that obsessive searching for P provides a shit ton of dopamine. What I am saying is that I don't believe its an enjoyable experience in itself. MO/sexual arousal yes, the endless swiping and searching for worse and worse P, no.

    During a relapse, if I ever stop the physical pleasure of MO and try to pinpoint any kind of "high", its not there. What I do feel is a feeling of "needing" to keep scrolling. Even if it's to search up a picture/video i find absolutely disgusting. Part of my brain may want the dopamine from that, but I don't get actual pleasure from doing it, I just feel I need to.

    Ironically enough, I am able to feel more pleasure from MO without P. When I watch P I am literally sacrificing actual pleasure for some illusory dopamine high which my brain wants, but I don't even feel the benefits from it.

    The "high" from exercise is a genuine one and a genuine happiness I can feel because I actually want to do it, rather than despise it but feel I need to do it.
     
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  15. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

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    That's your experience, then. Some people feel the high. Sound like there's not much motivation for you to use P, so that's good.
     
    Candun likes this.
  16. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    Fair enough, it is my experience. It wasn't something that happened at random though. It took/takes a deep look at how I feel before P, during P, after P, and without P. I just can't see the true pleasure in the schizophrenic search for images and videos that can only destroy you more and more. The conditioned idea of P as an amazing pleasure in my head and the reality of doing it just don't align, even if I wanted them to.

    I have researched other addictions in effort to learn more about my own and I can see the same thing in other people. At a time in their life they would laugh at the idea of their substance of choice having no pleasure. Now the position is completely reversed.

    I don't know your situation, but if you were to explain my process of PMO to someone who didn't do it, they would think "How on Earth can that possibly be a pleasurable activity?". It is not their view thats distorted, its mine.
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  17. Upwards2020

    Upwards2020 Fapstronaut

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    What it is
     
  18. Reborn16

    Reborn16 Fapstronaut

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    This is gold advice here^

    I'm not out of the woods yet, I still find PMO the most novel and enjoyable thing at home. But it only stays that way if I keep doing it. When I give it a good break for a week or more, other things start to become more fun. Importantly, they're fun without any guilt or shame associated.

    And workouts are a game changer for me too. I do about 30 mins strength training at home most days, blast the speakers with my favourite tunes, and it really is a rush!

    I have a lot of free time at home without a job now, which is why I struggle a lot at the moment. But I do find taking on small productive activities, followed by small rewards, is key. You don't want to spend too much time browsing or sitting on the couch, but you don't have to push yourself to work every hour either.

    So PMO still feels more fun/interesting? Only when it's in our lives.

    Your end game should be taking a break from PMO and incorporating a good amount of healthy activities. Then believe me, meeting women, working out, getting your goals done, spending time on your passions - it all feels awesome!
     
  19. Ketherlonk

    Ketherlonk Fapstronaut

    Me too, it's really weird. On my last relapse (after 100 days PM free), at the moment of O while watching P, I had an intense sensation in my brain, clearly dopamine flooding it. It was super pleasurable, but at the same time so weird and unnatural that it was quite disturbing. Really like if I had shot myself with some drugs. When I have sex with my wife, it is a very different feeling. Pleasurable, of course, but more "holistic" and emotionally satisfying because of the oxytocin, as you say.
     
    Meshuga likes this.

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