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P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Fenix Rising, May 12, 2019.

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  1. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    Just had a read - thought provoking stuff, but spookily accurate in terms of mapping what I'm experiencing. The only major difference I have is that I have almost zero tolerance for exercise. I can do small amounts, but anything more than the "minimum" has negative effects.

    It's also just a bit depressing re-re-realizing just how much I've wrecked my health with PMO. If I'd not experienced this myself, and I heard someone else talk about it, I would think they were mad. Unfortunately, it has happened to me. As for the madness, who knows?
     
    KaliYugaWarrior likes this.
  2. wfcasdvwervdsv

    wfcasdvwervdsv Fapstronaut

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    I also relapsed after 13 months, it definitely sucks. I'm interested to hear how it has affected you.

    Also, has anyone got any updates on masked-debater. He was a prominent member of the group but then stopped posting around march with no explanation. I wonder if he healed and moved on...
     
    KaliYugaWarrior likes this.
  3. KaliYugaWarrior

    KaliYugaWarrior Fapstronaut

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    Definitely I was making a lot of progress. But I was also going through a phase where I've had digestion issues which I still do and I'm unable to gain any weight. The worst thing obviously has been brain fog. It got around 25% better but after the vaccine, I felt like my brain closed off and brain fog got worse than ever. Especially around what's called the third eye, I've had major pain.

    And after the relapse, I feel really numb and dizzy. Have wierd dreams. Increase in anger. Most times when I lay down I start dreaming almost automatically and somehow I catch myself back. That all feels like I'm losing my consciousness. I'm tired of all this!
     
    Dave G 123 and Freeddom_Taker like this.
  4. mentorr

    mentorr Fapstronaut

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    Hey @KaliYugaWarrior also sorry to hear about the recent relapse - don't let it pull you all the way down.

    Just to put it out there, I think I can relate to the odd dreams you are experiencing. Is it almost like very 'thick' dreams even when day dreaming? Dreams that are somewhat 'muddy' and very hard to recall upon catching yourself? Like you, I am also experiencing issues putting on any weight despite working out daily and eating large amounts. Its almost like I have been pulled back in my streak despite not relapsing. Again, my brain fog has recently gotten worse out of nowhere. Suddenly my brainfog is close to what it used to be and I have no idea why?

    Were these symptoms after or before your recent relapse?
     
  5. KaliYugaWarrior

    KaliYugaWarrior Fapstronaut

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    Thanks man, I know I still have a long way to go. I guess the relapse was eventual. I had given up porn but the YouTube stuff was like a trigger. I tried to avoid as much as I could but eventually I gave in. I have decided to leave YouTube as well now.

    Yeah it's like whenever I just lie down, thoughts automatically start coming up and then suddenly I'm caught in a dream (happens during the day as well) and I'm not even sleeping actually. I try to stop it but that doesn't work. Also my dreams are usually so vivid that at some point when I come out of it, I'm worried what is real and what's not.

    These symptoms have been there since the beginning of my nofap journey.
     
  6. mentorr

    mentorr Fapstronaut

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    I recently started going to see a psychotherapist, just to get some perspective on my PMO addiction etc. In our first session, one of his first questions was ‘what is your sleep life like - do you have dreams?’ I explained pretty much what you just mentioned; that I dream very regularly, that my dreams are vivid and that I slip into a dream state during the day quite easily.

    He explained that dreams are a means for the subconscious mind to communicate its contents to the conscious mind. He said a vivid and significant dream life will always occur when you begin to work on yourself. It is basically a form of spontaneous clearing.

    When I asked why now, why since NoFap (he knows about NoFap) his explanation was that when we 'fap', drink alcohol, take drugs, have consistent sex, or are addicted to TV/the internet, we are using internal energy reserves to suppress our emotions. Once we stop these activities, the emotions that we have been blocking are able rise to the surface (our conscious mind). He believes that by starting NoFap, and stepping away from these activities, the emotions are now able to come to the surface.

    After our conversation it dawned on me that I likely beat my own PMO addiction a good year or so ago. The problem is that I replaced my PMO addiction with an internet/YouTube addiction. After realising, I also stopped using YouTube for good (6 days now). I agree that its a slippery slope, and can easily take the place of other addictions if not careful.

    In terms of your recent relapse, I doubt you have lost all of your experience. If anything your recovery has been curbed rather than set back. I have read maybe two recovery stories where long-term rebooters have relapsed, then 30-40 days later they have crossed the finish line and recovered fully, so I would try to keep an open mind.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
  7. 13 months is something.so hang in there. definitely your brain has recovered a lot ,if not fully.From my own experience semen retention and this all nofap works ,things improve for sure.

    I suggest you to leave all virtual stuffs as much as you can eg. mobile screens,laptop screens ,games ,TV and try to do things physically such as walking,jogging and households or any other works.Within 1 1/2 months ,you'll find yourself on other side of road.it works.Keep youself busy ,there should not be any time left with you to sit idle and keep thinking.just do anything except virtual stuffs.

    Hope it'll help you.
     
    KaliYugaWarrior likes this.
  8. Monkeyboyab2c

    Monkeyboyab2c Fapstronaut

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    I’ve been in therapy for 1.5 years now. I absolutely love it. I applaud you for taking that step. Is it something you see yourself continuing?
     
  9. mentorr

    mentorr Fapstronaut

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    Starting therapy really was a hard step, but after a few sessions I knew I had made a good decision. From our first session alone I realised just how much emotional damage I have taken over the years, and how NoFap and other addictions have been a buffer for that pain.

    Yeah i'd definitely like to continue going - I think I have been able to eliminate most if not all of my addictions (PMO, Internet, YouTube, Instagram, Junk Food) by dealing with the underlying emotions first. Still not 100% there yet, but after working with some of the old hidden emotions, a lot of my addictions seemed to be easier to manage.

    Hats off to you for being in therapy for so long - how do you feel after 1.5 years, do you feel any better?
     
  10. stoxx

    stoxx Fapstronaut

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    Hello all. I am 44 years old, for about 25 years I had problems with porn. There weren't frequent sessions but byly.dzis it's 240 days of cleanliness. I am most concerned about mood swings and anxiety, as well as various intrusive thoughts and memories from the past. Has anyone been through this too? I don't know if it's a withdrawal effect, flatness or problems with mine
     
  11. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    What type of pain are you talking around your third eye? Essentially I've had head sensations/pressure/pain all around my third eye area since the start - thought I was going crazy, turns out it is sinusitis (I only 6 months ago understood frontal sinus exist), an inflammation.

    This is significant as the sinuses have been linked in playing a role in mental health on the dopaminergic system
     
  12. Abstaining from PMO initially will by itself (as probably every substance abstinence) increase level of frustration and moodiness, anxiety. They are part of rebooting but can be also sign of underlying issues, sign of PAWS stage. Unfortunately no one will figure it out, except yourself. If abstinence symptoms are not making you severe dysfunctional, some amount of daily physical exercises will be very helpful to balance your mood.
     
    Freeddom_Taker likes this.
  13. Quick update (one more before I write the final one, hopefully)

    I'm 26.4 months free of PMO. Still struggling daily, to be honest.

    The severity of pain is still pretty fuckin' terrible. Maybe it's not as bad as it once was, but when it comes to this kind of pain it's all quite relative. Excruciating and terrible still fall under the umbrella of "shit I don't want to endure". And they still significantly affect my ability to live a normal life, especially when it comes to my inability to sleep normally.

    At this point I'm hoping for a click. The flatline is the flatline. It may undergo small improvements, but it's still very much there. My hope is that one day I'll just leave it. I don't know what else to find hope in. The last 3 months have once again beaten the optimist out of me.

    I saw @winningover seems to be out after 30 or so months. I'd be okay with that timeline, but it's just hard to fathom being clear of this stuff when it's still so "in my face". My biggest fear is that I'll be a 3+ year story. The question marks are still massive. There's just no way of knowing anything. And my libido is still nowhere to be found.

    I think I'm nearing the end of a cycle. I don't know about anyone else, but my symptoms occur in 3 month cycles. At this point I'm aware enough to predict what's going to happen almost to a "T". The mystery is completely gone. It's just this awful pattern that has come to define my life over the past 2+ years. Good thing is once I leave the cycles I usually have around 2 weeks of okay-ness. Usually during these times I'm able to build a momentum of optimism once again, but I'm going to be quite wary this time around. My guess is that I have, at least, one more 3-monther to go.

    Sorry to come off so negative, but I don't want to paint some rosy picture. I expected things to be much easier at this point, and to say otherwise would be misleading.

    I do regret having even the smallest influence in Don Quixote's exit and his complete deletion of his ideas. That dude had some interesting stuff to say, and he said it so eloquently. If I could take back anything it would be that. What I would do to have a conversation with him at this point in time. He's probably 3.5 months into his recovery. I wish him well. He was a tent post in this forum, which, now, seems to be rather desolate. I think a lot of the long term guys no longer feel the need to constantly post.

    One thing that makes me happy to think about are all of the success stories. Seems most guys do end up being thankful for the PAWs in the sense that they are now bulletproof when it comes to pain, along with a stupendous ability to not take things for granted. Such darkness makes for the perfect contrast for anything remotely filled with light.

    I myself am already pretty fuckin calloused at this point. When I hear people complaining about minor things I straight up cannot sympathize. It's tiddly winks to me.

    I try and expose myself, these days, to as many of these stories as I can find, though there aren't as many as one would like. So I re-visit the same ones over and over again. Sikreodds did a heck of job in his descriptions.

    That's it for now. I probably have a couple crushing days left before I leave this cycle. I'll learn a lot over the month of January. I expect disappointing news, but ya never truly know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2022
    Kningb, MeTP, Freeddom_Taker and 2 others like this.
  14. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    @zander13 don't blame yourself for don etc deleting posts. Its such a shame the felt they had to remove their inspiration

    Im coming up to almost 3 years on this journey, I can't seem to break free, PAWS is a killer, I can go months and months monk mode with no respite, and then end up having sex etc, and then get plunged back into the depths of hell, seems like no way out sometimes
     
    MeTP, Freeddom_Taker and zander13 like this.
  15. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    Hello everyone and thanks @zander13 for tagging me. It was a wakeup call that I needed to perhaps post something of an update here as its been a very long time. Many a reasons for me losing interest in this forum. Primary reason would be that I am not battling PAWS like I used to after 31 months long streak. Second, people I was in touch with, like Phoenix Rising (who started this thread) and Don Quixote have left so I couldn't find anyone else here ahead of me in the streak to take the useful guidance. Thirdly, I also wanted to experiment if taking a break from this forum would be in any way useful.

    As of my update, I would say that I have recovered from PAWS very very very slowly. The only thing that I still struggle with is social anxiety and I am not sure if its due to PAWS or PTSD. I find myself inclining towards PTSD because I have been through considerable trauma in last 31 months and something has to stick from all that. My social anxiety has definitely improved though from where it started but I haven't seen any improvement in that for last year or so therefore I am seriously thinking of starting therapy for that. I haven't taken any therapy at all throughout the process and recovered on my own and with a lot of help from this forum.

    I was still sufferings from my worst symptoms all over again about 6 months back but somehow they all evaporated completely and haven't come back to haunt me until now. It was quite a weird experience because when I really thought the worse was behind me, I just started having PAWS of month#1. They lasted for about 2 weeks after leaving me perhaps for forever. Nobody knows how recovery actually works in your physical brain although there is a lot of theory but nobody really knows. So @zander13 , when I read your last post above, I could relate some of the thoughts that you must be having after 27 months. We have no option but to keep going and trust the process. The experience that I had or the experience that you're having is quite unique and makes us feel so lonely out there out of all the recovery stories. I was here on this forum 6 months trying to find answers if I could start having worst PAWS after 24 months. But I felt alone and scared but I read other experiences of ppl in recovery having their unique PAWS experiences. So we are all together in this unique way because when plasticity of the brain kicks in, the PAWS fireworks, timings, lightings, explosions and the end result is different for everyone.

    I got covid last week, but it didn't hit me significantly thankfully. I have recovered almost but the fatigue and breathlessness remains. I will write a more detailed post in a while soon. In the meanwhile, I would suggest people here with unanswered questions to start reading this thread from page#1. There isn't any of the recovery or PAWS related aspect which has not been discussed here extensively. This thread is pure gold. Even though many of the long termers have left, their content will remain here forever.
     
  16. DerJogge

    DerJogge Fapstronaut

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    I completed 27 months and it feels like I’m actually making progress. It’s a slow progress but it’s progress. I started to spend more time out in the woods all by myself searching for fatwood, having little carving projects and basically spending time outside even on dark, rainy and cold days. I never could have thought of spending 6 hours in the forest 1-2 years ago. I also feel a lot more self-sufficient and I actually enjoy spending time on my own. I often feel loneliness in a way of missing a female companion and seeing other couples always induces some form of pain but it’s actually more motivating then demotivating. I understood that being alone serves a great purpose that nothing else can substitute. Being alone and making yourself happy is a key concept for living a happy life, at least for me. I think this is the hurdle that I have to overcome and to work on while my brain is doing the rest. For me PAWS has become liveable. There are things that I enjoy and although my brain is still fluctuating a lot there is small degree of consistency.

    I‘m also going through cycles but in the last 1-2 months they seem to soften up as it’s hard for me to identify where I‘m currently at, which at least for me is a good sign. I think I still need some months to go for my sleep to resolve. I started trying to implement a tight sleep regime again because I remembered that every time I felt good in the past I usually went to sleep at the same time everyday: 23:00 / 11pm. Bad sleep, fatigue and derealisation are still my worst symptoms.

    I also signed myself up for the gym and I noticed that I barely feel any social anxiety anymore. Some feeling of uneasiness but nothing like a strong stress reaction which I had in the past.

    My best recommendation for anyone would be trying to live life despite of PAWS. It takes a certain degree of energy to get yourself out in the world but since I have that energy I‘m feeling way better although I still have very dark and hopelessness days.

    This post of a guy that came out of PAWS after 30+ months is one of my anchor points since a few weeks as he is exactly going through the things I am going through and I can only highly recommend reading his success story and ignore that it revolves around weed. I am an ex porn/Sex/drug addict and I still see barely any difference beside my symptoms and psychological phenomena’s. Maybe for derealisation, as I don’t read about that in here very often.

    https://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=106335

    If anyone is interested in reading Dons old post which he deleted then he could use the wayback internet archive to go back in time to a date where Don was still present in this forum. Just google „wayback machine“ and Play around with it to figure out how it works.
     
    DC1234 and Dave G 123 like this.
  17. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

    Thanks guys for these posts over the last 24 hours. It really means something to know that I'm not all alone in all of this. The questions I keep asking myself every day are: "How long is this going to take!?" and then on my worse days: "Is recovery even possible?". I hope it is.
     
  18. happygilmorescaddy

    happygilmorescaddy Fapstronaut

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    hey fellas always read this thread, but havent posted before. im getting all the usual paws. 2 years in recovery , 1st year couldnt get past 1 month, second year had about 3-4 minor slips, this year plan is zero porn completely. PAWS is shite, feel like ive got the mood swings of a pregnant lady sometimes lol. the brain fog is the worst, when u actually try and think and just cant, theres a part of your brain that just doesnt work yet. so my quesstion whats everyones best tips for self care. I do exercise, intermittent fasting, try minimzise processed food as much as possible, i started TM and thats been epic so far . I found it really hard to take risks socially and meet new people, i use to be able to do it as a porn addict easier. I think thats my next step is taking the plunge and meeting new people even though it feels uncomfortable and feels like my foots in my mouth the whole time.
    anyway cheers lads keep up the good work
     
    MeTP likes this.
  19. Sleep. Check and improve your sleep patterns if needed.
     
  20. Monkeyboyab2c

    Monkeyboyab2c Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for posting that guys story.
     

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