A childhood "trauma" made me develop this disgusting fetish..

I have a similar problem, and I'm going to write out a lot cause I think there's def other people who struggle with this, and this is what I think about it after a while of dealing with this.

I'm similar to you, although I still get somewhat turned on by sex just not nearly to the same level as my fetish. I had a gf for 2 years at the end of high school and I believe that made me more into different kinds of "vanilla" sexual acts to be honest. But, we only had sex a few times as we were young and mainly fooled around in other ways, so I haven't really experienced a full relationship with regular sex. Before that gf I never really MO'd to vanilla stuff. I've talked to different people on this site and read a couple books about this, I'm by no means an expert but here's what I've gathered and what I'm thinking my path is going to be.

It seems like this happens to a non-trivial amount of people, where they get a paraphalia due to experiencing some event in childhood. Mine is feet and light femdom, although honestly with the amount of porn I've consumed I'm not sure how much the femdom is simply added because of the porn. Anyways, the people I've seen who this has happened to have similar stories to yours, in that they never really MO'd to "vanilla" porn just cause their fetish got them off way more. From what I've gathered there's two things you can do about this.

One is starting to watch vanilla porn, and Mo'ing to it for a while until you genuinely feel turned on by it. It's also good to abstain from the fetish porn. I know this sounds like it shouldn't work, or like "gay conversion therapy" or something, but for whatever reason it genuinely has worked for me somewhat, and I think it could even more as I haven't been able to fully commit to it still. I know a well-known psychologist who has treated paraphilia's has written how he believes that sexual preferences like this are actually the most mutable part of someone's sexuality, because most people like this are actually attracted to a certain sex, they just have this fetish almost layered on top of that. It's different from someone who is gay who is legitimately attracted to the other sex. It definitely varies the level people have it, and it seems pretty random.

I'd say its good to MO to vanilla or normal porn for a while, then slowly watch amateur, then maybe just go to pictures and then imagination. I don't think there's a right "speed" or frequency to do this at, just whatever works for you. I've also heard that it kind of helps to think of it as you're learning a new, mature way people share affection with each other, one your childhood brain didn't fully pick up on. The other way can exist and is valid, but this is just another way that you can engage in as well. Just look at it with a somewhat open mind, your feelings and identity around it as well. Again, I've legitimately felt changes in what I'm attracted to with this and I didn't think that was possible, I don't know exactly how this works but I'm going to keep doing it.

Now, the second thing you can do, and to me this is a lot better, is actually finding someone you like and exploring sexual acts with them. There's been case studies that show that people with paraphilias, I even read one similar to yours with a guy who could only get aroused by obese ladies, can have and enjoy normal sex if they feel comfortable and look at it more as a romantic way to show affection between two people. This is why I think its good to even watch porn with that kind of mindset. Almost everyone wants affection and romance, and even me, I've found if I like a girl I feel odd about delving into my fetish with her, it just rubs me a weird way. There were a few case studies in this book I read that showed the same thing, that once the guy got comfortable and felt open around their partner, they suddenly found themselves enjoying sex. I read a story like that somewhere in the NoFap universe as well. In some cases that involved opening up to their partner about their fetish and feeling accepted, but there was one where the person did not do that as well. In my experience, the vanilla sexual stuff I do enjoy like bjs, kissing, and some positions, I think are from the experiences I had with my ex a few years ago. I'd say to be open with them and go slow, and even if you don't feel super aroused by it, you can maybe think of your paraphilia a bit or just focus on the sensation or romantic sentiment around it and see if you can get aroused. This could lead to you getting aroused by the actual stuff you're doing with her, just keep an open mind about it. Really, it doesn't hurt to try this and if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out, but it doesn't hurt to try. If you do this, I think its a good idea to do NoFap, so you can sort of just work with as much natural sexuality as possible. So, if you can find someone to date and feel more comfortable around that could really help a lot, and at the end of the day if you find the right person that could be the happily ever after.

Lastly, I think the idea of trying to suppress the fetish is not great. I would guess abstaining from porn involving it is pretty essential to learning vanilla sexuality, but I don't think its healthy to try to fight it in your mind when it comes up or hate yourself for having it. At the end of the day it wasn't your choice, and no one ever really has to know exactly how you feel about it. Lots of people have fetishes, really its incredibly normal and was not your choice. It's absolutely difficult to deal with, but at the end of the day I feel it's something that's worth it to try to work with. The future is uncertain, there was a period with my ex where I felt like I liked some vanilla stuff even more than my fetish for some reason, and got insanely turned on by it. Now I feel way less turned on by vanilla stuff but that may be cause I've fapped to just a shit ton of porn. I'd even add that rarely my ex would indulge in my fetish, and even this felt romantic in a way, because she was doing it in a sort of accepting light. Some people may not want to do that, and I understand that, but I think sexual acts between two consenting people are OK, and as long as one stays off porn, they're really just exploring their natural sexuality guided by real relationships, which in my opinion is never really bad.

Anyways, my point is to not get into a really fixed mindset about this and get depressed, you never know how this could change. Even people who like vanilla sex say that after certain kinky relationships they got super into BDSM and that's now what they love, and think of all the people who start off vanilla and get super into cuckolding or chastity through porn use. There's been research shown that especially when guys feel immense anxiety or depression for a while, their sexual tastes change and even can be more inclined to do more taboo stuff. I've heard stories where a guy even in his 20's or later has a bad breakup or moment and gets a cuckolding fetish. Some of these might sort of be undesirable, but I'd be really surprised if it went one way but never went the other. My point is, sexuality seems to be somewhat fluid in a lot of people, so don't curse your life and predict any kind of final outcome. There's many things that can happen.

I'd say this lastly as well, which is that I'm not sure exactly how well all of this works for everyone. I've talked to and seen a few people who seem to have altered their sexuality to different extents doing what i've described, and I can say for sure that's happened with me, I maybe went from being 1% attracted to vanilla stuff to like 50%, and I'm hoping that can be even more. But, I can't say how well this would work for everyone. At the end of the day there's no concrete data or "treatment" for this, which fucking sucks, cause its definitely isolating. But, the way I see it, is we gotta do the best we can, without jumping to any conclusions. Don't start a pity party around this, and try not to obsess about it. There's a very real chance that if you do this, or find some other method or acceptance, this could all work out, and your time spent obsessing over it would have been over something that never happened. Obviously I'm not doctor so take all of this with a grain of salt, but this is just what I've gathered from what I've read and experienced. Good luck everyone and safe travels.

 

Find a good csat and do emdr. It’s worked wonders for several family members with childhood trauma.

 

I totally agree with you. I have same problem.
OP you should try this, i have already made a thread how to overcome pre porn induced fetish, you should check it: https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/my-way-to-overcome-pre-porn-induced-fetish.322399/

 

There is no good evidence for masturbatory reconditioning. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/014664029190012Y And there is no recent research of this procedure, it means that medical and psychological community gave up on masturbatory reconditioning.

I think there are 2 sexual systems in the brain. One is stimuli oriented, it is based on testosterone and dopamine. More males use this system than females. It is simple, rapid and reliable, but it is not flexible and plastic. It means that it is very diffictult to modify this system, it will always react on your prefered stimuli even without your awareness. The second system is based on oxytocin. It is related to attachment and love. This system is more feminine, but it is plastic, flexible, and there is room for change here. Such system can also provide erection and arousal, but it is less reliable in this regard than the first sexual system. I think the best bet for person with paraphilia who feels romantic attraction to women is development of romantic and sexual relationship based on strong attacment, love, commitment, etc. I don't think that it is possible to change the first, stimuli oriented system. It is basic and reliable like basic motor reflexes, we simply can't control them, it doesn't have enough complexity for change and tuning.

 

Really, with most of this stuff, I just think there is not a lot of concrete evidence out there either way. Even the article you linked just concluded that more empirical studies need to be done in order to come to broader conclusions. I personally don't know exactly how some of the biological systems work, but I know that I've experienced some slight changes in my preferences due to the porn I'm watching. Your first point also goes against the thousands of guys who have posted on these forums who have said their preferences have been altered by porn use.

I guess I'm not trying to debate what you're saying, I just lean more towards the idea that we should keep an open mind and try out and stick with things that work for one personally. In this case, where there really isn't a ton of evidence either way, I think that makes the most sense.

 

Yeah, but we don't have the data on a natural history of sexual interest. I think that sexual interest isn't a point on the multidimensional space, it is more like an area on the multidimensional space, and sometimes some points on the area become more bright (intensive), sometimes less intensive, etc, but it is difficult to change the volume of an area in order to include other elements (people of other sex, age, creature of other species, etc) and change the coordinates of this area.

Also most biological systems are not linear, and they are not time invariant. And it is a critical point. If sexual system was time invariant then early childhood experience wouldn't matter, because other experience could erase childhood imprinting, but it is not the case, because adult experience with sex and masturbation is only a pale imitation of the first experience with arousal and orgasm. Critical period of sexual development is real, existence of critical period is a consequence of the fact that sexual system isn't time invariant.

Also sexual system isn't linear. It means that it's performance isn't determined by the sum of different experiences. A lot of guys say that you should masturbate more to vanilla porn than to the 'bad' porn. The problem with this approach is the assumption of linearity, that performance of the system is determined by the sum of "impulses", but it is not the case. Sometimes one particular "impulse" (sexual stimuli) is more important than thouthands of other impulses, that's why there is a love at first sight, and that's why some children and teens are stuck with one particular bizarre stimuli.

 

I can’t really argue with theory but, I feel like at the end of the day what you’re saying is a hypothesis. There are many models about how sex and attraction work, I think it’s a bit naive to think yours might be the one that’s really true without a lot of evidence or data around it. It could be the case that it’s true, but I just feel there’s very little data to confirm either way.

I definitely agree overall that the “linearity” aspect people describe doesn’t make sense, and for sure some sexual experiences or just experiences appear to be more important when someone’s sexuality develops. Thing is, there are many anecdotal stories on nofap where someone starts with vanilla, watches a lot of porn and delves deeper, and then has trouble engaging with or being aroused by vanilla, and craves the fetish porn they’ve viewed. I feel like this is an odd case which definitely exposes something new about sexual preferences, assuming people are being honest.

In addition, I’ve heard people who suddenly got into cuckolding, even later in life like teens or twenties, due to a weird experience with a girlfriend. Or people that got very into BDSM and feel less aroused after experiences with later relationships. This would show that it might be possible to still have sexually formative experiences throughout one’s life, maybe less powerful but it appears still possible.

Overall I agree with you on the point that sexually formative experiences in youth can hold much more weight, and that the linear way of thinking about it might not make sense. Thing is, I feel like most guys with this condition might not desire to understand the exact underlying mechanics, which in my opinion we can’t say we know, but want to be able to have somewhat normal sexual relationships with others. I do think there’s some guys that won’t be able to do this, like if their Paraphilia strays very far from what we might call vanilla, and if they don’t get aroused by vanilla at all. They might be able to find someone who is also into their Paraphilia or accept themselves, but it may be less likely they’ll get into vanilla.

For some guys though, they do seem to have some attraction to vanilla. Just speaking anecdotally, I have personally experienced changes in my sexual preferences due to having a girlfriend, changes in my mood or experiencing depression or anxiety, and things like my porn use. For me, it would mean a lot to be able to have a good sexual relationship with a girl, and I just know most aren’t truly that interested in my Paraphilia, which is feet and light femdom. But, I also enjoy some vanilla sexual acts, although to a lesser extent right now, and could definitely engage with girls doing that. I guess from my perspective, since there’s not great data and I feel I’ve personally experienced some changes in what I’m attracted to based on porn use, and probably also having an ex I did a lot of vanilla stuff with, I’d rather just try these different avenues out given that it’s important enough to me. To be honest, long term I do want to find a girl who is OK with my fetishes because I think it’s ok to have them, I guess I just want to be flexible, which for me is like almost possible. I think a lot of guys I’ve seen in other threads have personally experienced this using vanilla porn and just want to continue that route because it’s important enough to them. Even though it may not fit into some theory box it’s sort of the Wild West with this stuff and at some level we can only go off of what we experience. Again, I agree it’s better with a real person, but some people just want to try all avenues. That’s all how I see it

 

You know, paraphilias are official mental disorder, which are recognized by the WHO. In theory you can even get disability benefits due to paraphilia (I know few such cases in my country). Also the whole medical checkup is warranted for person with paraphilia, including MRI brain scan, hormonal test, etc. Also I would be very careful to advice orgasmic reconditioning. I know one guy who became suicidal after such procedure, because "normal" porn is disgusting for him, so exposure to nude females was very traumatic for him. It means that this procedure can be not safe. Also the goal of treament of paraphilia isn't normalicy, the goal is good social functioning without suicide attempts, depression, anxiety. Ideal sexual function can be not attainable for a lot of paraphiles. I would be happy for chemically castrated exclusive pedophile who lives without damaging himself or others, it is a realistic goal of therapy, but in reality a lot of pedophiles can't even attain this moderate goal, they are either suicidal, dysfunctional or dangerous to others (children).

 

Yeah, I guess you are right, at the end of the day I don't want to advice anyone either way as you're right we don't know the possible consequences. I definitely understand what you're saying, I guess I'm coming at it from my subjective viewpoint, in which I have some attraction to vanilla stuff and my fetishes aren't dangerous and somewhat common. I understand why pedophiles and someone who has a non-harmful fetish might be categorized as the same thing, but it also is a bit hard to relate in terms of what someone like me should do, as it wouldn't make sense at all to chemically castrate myself, if that makes sense. I'm not a psychologist, but from reading a fair amount about it, I guess my opinion is good treatment outcomes should vary based on someone's specific circumstances. I saw a video of a pscyhologist who would begin his treatment of paraphalia with understand how much one finds vanilla sex enjoyable and how overwhelming the fetish is, in order to formualte a realistic treatment outcome, and good next steps to take. I don't know, this stuff is confusing and I hope everyone can find happiness doing what works for them.

 

I want to understand the mechanism of your suggestion. You said that "One is starting to watch vanilla porn, and Mo'ing to it for a while until you genuinely feel turned on by it." How is it possible for exclusive paraphile? Exclusive paraphiles find normal stuff disgusting. I have tried orgasmic reconditioning for years, years and years. I think I had been trying it for 15 years, I understood that I have a paraphilia when I was 13 years old and I had been trying to switch fantases through orgasmic recondition since that time. I didn't read about this technique in a psychological textbook, it is too simple, even teen can understand the basic intuition of the procedure, but then I have understood that this technique has a lot of flaws.

By the way, my paraphilia is agp, also I have gender dysphoria since childhood, so my case isn't applicable to more 'mainstream' fetishes. Even in my conservative country (Russia) clinicians recommend transition for me and people like me, because they think that I have poor prognosis in adaptation in male role, and better prognosis in adaptation in feminine role (and they are right, I am transitioning, and I am happier now ). Also I don't oppose to paraphilia treatment. I only want to eliminate ineffective procedures and medications from the market. Treatment should be based on science, good theoretical foundation and good evidence, orgasmic reconditioning isn't based on good science and evidence. Also I think that sexual conditioning is real, but I don't like old fashioned american psychologists for thinking that man is a tabula rasa, and you can make him sexually react on anything (In fact I haven't found in russian sexological textbooks reports on orgasmic reconditioning, also germans don't practice it asfaik, french psychologists are into psychoanalysis, Lacan, they don't like behavioral approach, it means that orgasmic reconditioning, radical behaviorism is an american thingy). We should consider conditionining in the broader theoretical framework. There are dynamic system theory, behavioral system theory which acknowledge the existence of a lot of limitations of conditioning. I agree with Ronald Langevin on orgasmic reconditioning.
Ronald Langevin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Langevin) wrote about this in his brilliant book "Sexual strands: understanding and treating sexual anomalies in men"

 

I think for different people some may feel differently watching vanilla porn. I personally never was disgusted by vanilla porn, I was slightly aroused but much less than my fetish.

Really, if you want a concrete example, when I was 16-17 I had a gf, and we were starting to fool around. I had never masturbated to normal porn, and decided that it might be a good idea to try before I did anything with her. I can tell you that when I first watched the porn I didn’t feel that turned on by it, but as I watched more, especially hjs and bjs, I got much more into it. I was able to get aroused with my gf and really enjoyed it, to the point where I’d be ejaculating in like 10 seconds just from being so turned on lol. I say this to say it didn’t feel fake, it felt like a legitimately new part of my sexuality. I still get turned on by that stuff, although less so than with my fetish. So, I don’t know how it works, but that’s what happened with me.

I think it’s likely that different people have different levels of attachment or rigidity with their Paraphilia and normal sex. Here may lie the problem. You ask:"One is starting to watch vanilla porn, andMo'ing to it for a while until you genuinely feel turned on by it." How is it possible for exclusive paraphile?

In my view, since it’s likely a spectrum, some people may be able to do this. Some might not be able to. Perhaps in some cases it’s an exclusive, rigid Paraphilia, although I get confused by this as I mentioned before, I never felt turned on by normal stuff but now am somewhat. So, I sort of thought I might’ve been an exclusive Paraphilic but now I’m not sure. Obviously in the cases at the end of your post, I obviously would never think orgasm reconditioning is a good idea. If it’s not changing anything and makes someone feel worse, then it makes sense to stop it. I just said it might be an option because I’ve subjectively felt a change with it.

Different cultures have different traditions in psychology, i admit though I’ve become skeptical to ultimatums of the field due to how quickly information or theories gets updated and changed, and how the culture in the field shifts. For me, I feel I’ve read enough anecdotes about tastes changing with porn use that my mind is open to the idea of orgasm reconditioning, although again I want to emphasize I think real sexual experience is far, far more preferable. In the end, i feel treatment should focus solely on the individual, and whatever works for them the best. I don’t doubt orgasm reconditioning can be a bad choice for some with Paraphilia, all I’m saying is it might work for some as well.

 

It doesn't contradict to my understanding of sexuality that there are two systems in the brain related to sex. One is stimuli oriented. Another one is based on attachment. I am castrated and my stimuli oriented system is shutdown due to the lack of testosterone, but I want to have intimacy and attachment, and it can produce arousal and pleasure. Also it is interesting to understand how such systems interact with each other. I think Toates wrote about this in his book. https://www.amazon.com/How-Sexual-Desire-Works-Enigmatic/dp/1107688043

 

I think we should differentiate between behavioral addiction and developmental processes. Paraphilias are peculiarities of developmental process like autism (I think it is reasonable to call paraphilias "sexual autism"), but they are not addictions per se. Sure, paraphile can also be an addict, in this case he will develop new fetishes, sexual scripts related to his basic paraphilia, he will need more and more extreme sexual stimulation, but his new sexual interests will be temporary, they can't become intrinsic to his psyche, because they are not related to his psychosexual ontogeny.

We shouldn't lump together sexual addicts and paraphiles. They are completely different populations.

 

I definitely agree it’s not correct to lump them together. However, with myself I have noticed my sexual tastes getting more extreme due to porn and I have been using porn since I a very young age, so I’m interested in doing nofap in order to see what the “true” nature of them are.

In addition, I mainly brought up that point to emphasize the idea that sexual preferences may be somewhat malleable for some, and it could be influenced by what porn one watches. To be honest, I just don’t think we have enough robust data on Paraphilia and it’s nature to make claims about how everyone will respond. That’s my true view. I personally thought I would never really be aroused by certain things and then after experiences with porn and my ex, those have changed. I guess I’d find it sad if someone who experiences some Paraphilia rules out ever trying “vanilla” sex because they think aspects of themselves are totally immutable, especially when we don’t know that. Idk

 

People have psychological leaning to stability and predictability. Fluidity and uncertainty make all people nervous. So it is simple to understand the idea of immutability of sexuality. Also vanilla relationships with women can be hard and traumaic. They can not only bring joy and pleasure, but also pain and disappointment. I don't understand such fascination with femininity and women in cis straight guys, I at the end of the day can be also feminine and beaitiful, a lot of guys can be feminine Also It can be more easier and funny to masturbate with idiosyncratic fantasies (diapers, for example), especially if you have this fetish since childhood, you can create your own world of pleasure, and you can find a lot of friends who will support you. Why not? I can accept all sexualities if they not violate boundaries of other people (pedophilia, coercive sadism, rape). I have some ethical dilemma with zoophilia, I haven't formulate my attitude to such paraphilia and corresponding sexual practice yet. I think that some variants of zoophilia could be legal.

 

Yeah, it’s a tough needle to thread and I’d guess it vary person to person a lot. For me I want to be monogamous one day, and thus I’m hoping nofap and having a good emotional connection with a girl would be enough for me to perform sexually and also enjoy it. I feel like I’m pretty close to there. But, there are probably those with Paraphilia who might not be able to do this, or it could be traumatic. To be honest though I think I would also need to do fetish stuff as well so she’d have to be open to that. Funnily enough almost every girl I’ve been with has been open to it, so I’m overall not too worried. I don’t know, I definitely agree with you I wish we as a society were more open to this idea and these things weren’t so hidden. In addition, I think that lifestyle may work for some, but for someone like me I’d feel a bit lonely, I really want to find a good girl and settle down one day, at least that’s my feeling right now. Since I’ve held a long term relationship with a girl before and enjoyed the vanilla sexual acts, although less than my fetish, I’m really willing to do nofap or pornfree and see how much better it can get. If someone has truly zero attraction to vanilla stuff, then perhaps a different solution could be better.