6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. We can learn a lot from a heroin addict. After 6 years of self-indulgence, their life has changed. It's harder to keep friends. It's harder to enjoy a simple TV show or ballgame. Work loses value and interest in their minds. Wait... everything is starting to lose value and interest in their minds. Everything except their addiction. If you are around hard-core addicts they are sometimes almost zombie-like. Completely empty. Porn is a bit more subtle. Sometimes anyways. But even when it is more subtle in how it steals more and more things from you. If you sit down and think about it, it will be pretty obvious. Satan says that there are disadvantages to being only Spiritually minded. He says you will miss out on the fun. But, when he tells you that, read the verse again. Which part of death is fun. Life is always more fun when we do things God's way. But in order for that to be true we need to strive to follow God's ways. I will repeat an earlier thread: Jeremiah 29:11 ESV For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Pray one million times: "Father, show me the plans You have for me." If our goal is to follow God's plan... life will always be, way more fun. When we set a goal to be spiritually minded, we find life, peace, and a future.
Just a question. I always wondered how you can apply things God says to other people, to yourself. For example when Jesus gives authority to his disciples. Or in this instance when you quoted a letter to captive Israel (JER 29:11), intended for captive Israel I guess. But applied to us. I would appreciate some clarity on this.
Aren't we also disciples of Christ? Aren't we also captive Israel -- God's people stranded for a time in a broken, fallen land?
I think most verses are for everyone. Even when verses are specifically for the disciples - we are supposed to be disciples also. The exceptions would be the Old Testament Jewish traditions which are not renewed in the New Testament. I am not Jewish and they are not for me. Regarding the disciples. We have the same authority available as the disciples. But all too often, we allow sin and distractions to keep the power gone.
Yes, with the disciples I agree. I don't know what you mean by Jewish traditions, I think they are called the Lord's feasts in the OT. And is passover not renewed? 1 Cor 5:8 Get rid of the old leaven, that you may be a new unleavened batch, as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old bread, leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and of truth
The OT had dozens of laws including circumcision which were part of salvation. They were only for the Jewish people, we don't need them for salvation after Christ.
I agree, we don't need them for salvation, nor do we need any law-keeping for salvation. I'm just a bit weary with plucking stuff out of God's law, when you can keep it, why not? I think it's clear in NT that we should keep the law, but we are not saved by it. And are we not all grafted into Israel, Tao Jones comment a few lines up depend on that I think.
My take is we must obey the commandments. That is how we keep "Christ's light on" in us. We need Christ in us to be saved. So, while we are not saved through our obedience... We are empty (dead) without it.
But what is the Law? Jesus summed it up in two phrases: Love God with everything you've got and love your neighbor as yourself. If you do those two things, you keep the law. Then, later, Jesus further condensed the Law by giving his disciples the new command to simply love one another as he had loved them. In doing this, we obey (i.e., love) God and love our neighbor, thus fulfilling all of the Law. There is nothing further we need to do. We are complete in Christ, without need for anything else added on.
To me, life is better when we follow Phillipians 2:12 and "Work out our salvation with fear and trembling."
I could not agree more. As the context of Philippians 2 makes plain, love for one another is the peak expression of our humbling of ourselves before God, even as Christ humbled himself for our sakes. His love for us was so profound that following it caused him to sweat blood and go to the cross willingly. We have no greater example to follow than that of our Master.
Tao mentioned the two greatest commandments that sum up the law. My take on that is that keeping those commandments IS keeping the smaller ones. Keeping the 10 commandments for example is loving God and your neighbor. Any obedience to God is showing love to him. And I think that includes the dietary laws, and even the ceremonial things like passover.
Correct, when we truly love God and others we follow all of the other commandments because we can't love God and others unless we follow them.
That's what the Pharisees thought, too. To the point where they completely lost sight of "love your neighbor as yourself." This is why Christ emphasized "Love one another" in his new commandment to the disciples in the upper room. According to the Lord himself, that must be primary. And in doing this, we obey God. If our "love God" is precluding our "love one another," we know we are off-base.
The Pharisees added to the word of God, Jesus called it commandments of men. But the things I mentioned where not commandments of men. And how do you lose sight of loving God if you try to do what he says? It seems more likely to lose sight of loving him when you don't do what he says. The Pharisees did not do what he said, they added to the law while keeping their hearts wicked. The things I mentioned are in the law, why would you not want to keep the law? Jesus kept the law perfectly and did he lose sight of "love your neighbor as yourself"? And: 1 John 3:6: "He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." So we should walk as he walked, keeping the law.
Romans 10:4 bears a look, I think. Indeed all of Romans and Galatians address this issue. I will let the Scripture and the Author of Scripture speak for themselves on the matter. Do as the Spirit leads you, of course!
To me, I think he is saying that righteousness comes from faith in Romans 10:4 and the surrounding verses, which I think we both believe. But Tao, we seem to have different views on the law. And I would like to better understand your perspective on this. Do you think Christians should keep all of the law it, some of it, don't focus on it, or maybe another option?
I think the Scripture could not be more clear. We are to keep all of the law. And here is how we do so: By loving one another. That is all. Romans 13 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. Galatians 5 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Then we seem to agree completely, but what about: "Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." So I think loving God also is fulfilling the law. Then the question is, which mindset we have, do we love others to fulfill the law, or do we fulfill the law to love others. I think it's both, since if we keep the law, and the prophets we will have to love others. The only danger would be to make up your own idea of what love is, and then say you are fulfilling the law with that idea. When scripture should be what defines love. ( that's no accusation btw, just me thinking )
