1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Leaving a religion, What stops people? What is your experience?

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    579
    1,188
    123
    Hey everyone, so a topic on here... leaving a religion and either officially converting to another religion or at least mentally converting to another religion.... or, just leaving religion altogether and living life day by day, as it comes.

    Has anyone here had any experience being part of a religion for a number of years, maybe even since childhood, and then left the religion and never returned to it? Did you still think about this religion in your mind after you left, or were you able to completely separate yourself from it?

    A little bit of my story:

    Grew up in an agnostic home, but went to Catholic mass as a child up until the priest scandal. My dad got mad and we stopped going to mass except for Christmas and Easter. This was around age 12.

    From here, I was agnostic/never thought about religion at all. Was more into "energy" and thinking about existence though. At age 20, I read the Bible, started going to church at age 21. Off and on went to church from age 21 to 29. But also read the other major religions - Judaism/Islam/Hinduism/Buddhism. An interesting thing I noticed --- whichever religion I read, I started to believe in that religion. And started to think from that perspective. So in a way, I could choose how I wanted to think based on what religious book I read.

    I had always felt a strong sense of doubt about Jesus. Not that I don't think he existed or that he wasn't a smart or nice guy. But the story of the Virgin Birth, and also his resurrection from the dead, and the idea that Jesus is/was God Almighty. I also never liked attending church. I don't like listening to someone talk, and most of the preachers I find boring to be honest. Also, a big reason the "Church" pisses me off is because I think its a waste of time. I drive to a building, listen to someone else play music, listen to someone else talk, and then I get back in my car and drive home. This whole process drains my day and potentially prevents me from accomplishing goals in life.

    However, I have not been able to truly, fully leave Christianity behind. There is still part of me that FEARS to fully, truly leave the Christian religion behind. I have felt before that I am trapped by this religion, trapped in my mind. Also, Christianity is a religion that even threatens eternal hell after death if you reject Jesus as the Lord and Savior. So, I wonder if this is a BIG reason why a lot of ex Christians don't FULLY reject the Bible/Church/Jesus.. it is because of fear of the uncertainty of death. And Christianity, one of the main themes of Christianity, is the idea of Heaven -- of seeing loved ones, of living a life without pain, and other such things.
     
    onceaking likes this.
  2. Francis X.

    Francis X. Fapstronaut

    162
    150
    43
    The things about Jesus weren't made up. All the documents about Jesus claim that he was God and that he rose from the dead. There is very good evidence to believe Jesus claimed to be God. Why did Paul want to kill Christians for blasphemy in the first years that it existed? It's because of the claim that Jesus is God. The disciples were killed for saying that Jesus rose from the dead. Paul did a 180 after seeing Jesus. There are also other good miracles for Christianity, for example, the Miracle of the Sun. 70,000 people witnessed a vision of the Sun dancing in the sky, including journalists and Atheists. Rejecting Catholicism because of bad clergy is like rejecting Judas because of Jesus.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  3. FocusIsLove

    FocusIsLove Fapstronaut

    281
    277
    63

    I just have to ask, what about the parable of knowing a tree by it's fruit? I've not looked into it for a good 3 or 4 years, but for decades the Catholic hierarchy has made a safe haven for sexual abuse. When they find out about it, it is swept under the rug, and the offenders are shuffled around rather than give them wise love of stripping their title, having them face the proper consequence of their crimes, but loving and supporting them as brother's in the faith of God in the process.

    on the subject I've never understood the tradition of celibate priests and nun's. Peter, the supposed first pope, had a wife. Pauls writings implied leaders of the church were to have a family with good standing and repute. Seems rather Pharisaical, heaping unto men rules which, made clear by the aforementioned abuse, they cannot keep themselves. This is not what God wanted for men, but what men have imposed over others justifying it with God's own name.

    God's love for you and all the believers in Catholicism exists despite these actions, but it seems so directly against plain scripture, which is supposed to be their foundation. What're your thoughts on this?
     
  4. Francis X.

    Francis X. Fapstronaut

    162
    150
    43
    Well, I sometimes think crises in the Church are punishments for sin. An example is the Babylonian Captivity (both in the Old Testament and in the Papacy.) The kings of Israel did very immoral things, but they were still chosen by God. A lot of this has actually come from relaxing standards in the Church. The main perpetrator of a lot of this is the "Spirit of Vatican II." It's interesting that the third secret of Fatima was set to release in 1960, but was delayed for some reason. Another thing to add is that the abuse rates in the Catholic Church aren't that different than any other Church. What you see is an extreme media spotlight. Public schools have twice as much sexual abuse, actually, even though you can be married. Any job that involves children is going to have predators.

    About celibacy, this is a disciplinary measure, so it can be reversed. There are actually some Catholic churches that allow married priests, like the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. I wouldn't recommend it, though. It could create a class of priests separate from society. Paul actually talks about the greatness of being celibate in his letters. It's interesting that you would be on this website if you think that celibacy is impossible.

    I would like to note that scripture's authority is based on the Church. The Church produced the New Testament; the New Testament did not produce the Church.

    I wish you prayers and love as well.
     
  5. FocusIsLove

    FocusIsLove Fapstronaut

    281
    277
    63
    I can see the perspective comparing rates to other stations involving children. I do not have the ability to confirm your claims of comparison to other sects and schools, but they are plausible. I certainly will dig into the subject a bit more when I am able.

    I never said that celibacy was impossible, just that it was unfounded as a perquisite for the priestly class. I think a glaring difference from Catholics prerequisitional celibacy and Paul's exhortation for men to be so is that it's entirely voluntary and for service to the kingdom of God. Jesus has a line saying living the life of a eunuch to be accepted by those who can accept it. I can see how that one is not forced to become a priest, and one chooses to knowing the requirements, or as you say there are exceptions, the strong suggestion. But men have a natural tendency want to be in places of authority and respect. Even the apostles jockeyed for such position, only to be informed that the greatest would be servants. So one is taking on the burden out of a desire to hold the position, rather than to serve God. I think there is a reason that Jesus and Paul stress that it was optional, for those willing to take it on. I think making it a requirement that was not given in the scripture has unintended, and to those not looking, unobserved consequences.

    I suppose my history in the church has the perspective that the "word of God" is the word of God. The scriptures have authority as from the perspective of the authority of whom had inspired them, not the men that propagate them. With that sort of logic, you could certainly get away from the scripture quite a bit, and I would argue in a few key aspects you have.

    I mean that last bit not entirely as a jab, I respect you as a creation of the same God, but there are things that have always observed to be incongruous between scripture and the practice of Catholics. Firstly, you have the title of Father for the Pope, Priests, and other positions. Mat23:9 has Jesus saying not to call anyone on earth father, for your Father is in heaven. I can see that this could be interpreted to be hyperbole, like the cutting off hands and removal of eyes, but to outright do the thing it is saying not to do in the hyperbole as a foundational part of your practice of the faith seems wrong to me.

    Secondly, the practice of often numerously repeated prayers, like the rosary, of which again, right in the gospel seems to go against the teaching of Jesus Matt 6:7"And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." This is followed by the Lords Prayer, which was given as an example of what to pray like, and not something to be repeated or memorized(though memorizing it is quite beneficial for many.) He showed what aspects to focus on, as well as that it was incredibly short. Why would God need you to repeat yourself? His comprehension is perfect, and if one trusts that, then one can trust that a one short iteration is enough.

    There are others I might bring up, but they are less glaring. I hope none of this is too much. I suppose in my years living, I have had these thoughts and have not run into any Catholics to even mention these thoughts to.
     
  6. That means you have always followed others opinion according to your faith.
    Once you met Jesus' love one time you never will doubt again.

    I 've searched and have found. I was able to decide for myself. Not because what people told me but because what God revealed to me personally.

    I don't believe you are scared to break with Jesus. I think you are scared to break with people ('s opinions) completely and start your OWN personal spiritual journey to God.
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  7. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    579
    1,188
    123
    Thanks Roady for the response.

    well, lately I have been having a lot of stress regarding what path to take in life, such as career choice and things like this. I have enough money to get by right now, but I am undergoing a lot of stress because I feel as if I am “falling behind” , and that I’ll end up being an involuntary celibate due to not being able to be a “provider male”.

    Also, I don’t really have a friend group at all right now, am just going through the days talking to people at work, or my brother, who I live with, and is a Christian.

    So I’m in a good place right now to fully switch over to a life devoted to God, going to church regularly, etc.

    But I’m just in a lot of doubt on things in life in general. One thing is being able to quit this PMO habit, which I have not fully been able to get rid of yet. And another thing is this whole game of making money, which is annoying to say the least.

    So basically sexual addiction, and not seeing a way to be free from this internal pull to lust… and also stress of money, and being “successful” and all this stuff.

    These two things are a plague to my mind
     
    Roady likes this.
  8. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    579
    1,188
    123
    Also, the truth is, I do actually like Jesus a lot. And I do feel like I’ve had some “experiences” knowing Jesus.

    However… my concern is that by focusing on God/Jesus so much, that I’m actually unknowingly hurting and have hurt my chances of having a financially successful life. That I have, without realizing it, have been following something that feels good (Jesus), when in reality, it would have been better if I never even read a single biblical text in my entire life.

    This is my concern.. that I have walked many years in the wrong direction. And have followed something that I believed was real, but actually wasn’t!
     
  9. Are you conscious about the fact that porn is causing this all?
    When I had a relapse, it felt like I was sticking my head in the sand, becoming invisible for the world, but I also didn't see clearly my own life any more.
    Now all is clearing up and I "feel" much more better where my heart is longing for.

    It's great to see you have a spiritual life, despite your doubts.
    Can you mention bible passages where God gives you His promises?
    Promises about freedom?
    Promises about His unconditional love?
    Promises about His care and guidance?

    It's actually cool when you discover how His word fits in your today life.
    At least I was able to leave my horrible addiction with the help of His love and guidance, plus of course my own efforts in digging up some heavy stuff from the past, endless talkings with therapists and Christian helpers plus swallowing a quite heavy load of study materials.
    You have to work for your freedom, but the life I'm living now, is quite cool actually.
    So can you!

    Making money is great. There was a time I wasn't even able to work.
    It all gets better, but I agree, if you are just working for the money without any passion, that's boring.

    Again: porn causes this.
    When you use porn, all your other passions are covered and buried.
    My desire for you is that you will make that firm decision to leave porn for once and for all, and honor yourself the possibility to become free, discover your passions again and then steer into that life!

    Yes, you grow some older, and at a certain point you want to get your life back.
    Do you believe that's possible?
    And if you believe, are you willing to pay the price?
    Are you willing to deny your feelings, your urges and your arousal?
    Are you willing to crucify all that stuff and seek your comfort in the Love of God alone?

    I recommend you to read the ebook "the easipeasi way" (i=y because else nofap will use some protection mechanism to show that words). You can find that at https://easy123peasy123method.org/ (remove the 123).

    Ever thought about seeking some serious help by a professional helper?
     
    jcl1990 likes this.
  10. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    579
    1,188
    123
    Well, right now I am specifically having high stress because I am contemplating going back to school, and cutting back my work hours to part time. This gives me the opportunity, but not a guarantee, that I will eventually be able to do a job I would have some real passion for and also pays well. However, my savings account will go down a lot and there is no guarantee of success. And I have to make a decision by like tonight if I’m gonna do it or not. I am leaning towards “yes”, but I’m still pretty nervous about it. I don’t want to make a huge mistake on accident.

    And yea, that is a pretty significant thing you said… to seek comfort in God’s love alone… not in PMO.

    I saved the book you just sent. I will have time to read it over the next two weeks.

    well, yea finding some Bible verses on the topics you mentioned could be helpful.

    My main stressor though right now is whether or not to do this school thing. If the answer is “yes”, then I need to go into my work tomorrow and request part time hours going forward. So this is my main stressor and the cause of my recent relapses. Actually, the stress of this decision was the source of most of my relapses the past 1.5 months
     
  11. I think it will be very helpful for you if you start using the word fear in stead of stress.
    Stress is a populair common term people uses all the time. But when you know how to address your fears that will bring you much closer to your own heart. And that possibly reveals the real drives in your life.

    I believe that every relapse has its roots in some kind of fear.
    If that makes sense.
     
    AspiringHuman, Francis X. and jcl1990 like this.
  12. Francis X.

    Francis X. Fapstronaut

    162
    150
    43
    One can see that there was a structure to the Church from the beginning. Ignatius of Antioch talks about how one should always obey their bishop. If they don't have a bishop, they don't have the Church. Clement of Rome says that the Apostles chose successors among them to pass the faith on so it would not be corrupted. There was the question of who was the greatest in Luke.

    The decision for clerical celibacy is to be in imitation to the life of Christ. You can still disagree with it and be Catholic. It's only a disciplinary measure.

    Why does Paul say I became your father in 1 Corinthians 4:15?

    Jesus means rambling on in that passage. It is mistranslated. There's also Psalm 136, which is very repetitive.

    Sola Scriptura doesn't work because there is no way to know what is scripture without a reference to tradition. How do you know what is part of the Bible or not?
     
  13. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    579
    1,188
    123
    That may be one of the greatest helpful things I’ve heard in my life… replacing the word stress with the word fear. It is completely true, 100% true I feel like.

    Well, I will begin reading the book link you sent me tonight. Thanks again for your responses the last couple days
     
    Roady likes this.
  14. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    579
    1,188
    123
    Also, this reply of yours, the idea of using the word fear instead of stress, has given me great joy today. I've had a lot of joyous moments today because of what you said. If I could, I'd crawl through your computer screen and give you a hug.
     
    Francis X. and Roady like this.
  15. Ahhw man, this is amazing!
    A hug back to you!
    I'm glad I could help you with that little insight.

    Sounds it revealed that what you experiencing, is indeed fear.
    I know that fear is very hard to distuinguish, especially when we were fearfull all our life.
    I also know how fear can literally paralize us.

    Enjoy your happy moments :)
     
    Francis X. and jcl1990 like this.
  16. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    I was a Christian for about 20 years and am quite happy with being agnostic now. What helped me was the podcast
    Better Than Happy. It's a podcast made by this LDS life coach called Jody Moore and she did this one episode called Strong Convictions Loosley Held. The episode was basically about why we don't like to be wrong and why it's ok to get things wrong. For most of the episode, she talked about getting stuff wrong in our day to day life but towards the end, she talked about religion. She admitted it is possible that she has gotten religion wrong and she's ok with that since being LDS enables her to live her best life now. That was a massive a-ha moment for me because it made me realize it doesn't matter if a religion is true or not it's about how a religion affects your own life. So for about two years, I began debating religious people and thinking things through. I came to the conclusion that I had to completely let go of Christianity because it wasn't enabling me to live my best life now. When I completely let go of Christianity I felt at peace because I no longer felt I needed to convince people their beliefs were wrong and my beliefs were right. I accepted there are always going to be people with different beliefs and if their beliefs help them then who am I to discourage them.

    As for fear, well I've lost all fear of hell. The way I see it no one knows for sure what happens after we die. I dare say some Christians might say I'm going to hell for being agnostic and they could be right, but could also be wrong. It's possible Islam is the truth and Christianity isn't, or Buddhism could be right, or Hinduism, or maybe the atheists are right about there being nothing after death. I think these religions and non-religions just give us theories about what happens after death but no one knows for sure. All I know is that I have this life and I'm working on living my best life possible.

    Lately, I've been practising self-compassion and in turn that has enabled me to stop being judgmental towards other people. When I was a Christian I was constantly beating myself up and judging other people. Now when I mess up I remind myself why I messed up and tell myself it's ok because I'm human and humans make mistakes. Showing myself compassion has made me less judgmental of people. Usually when I noticed someone who says something I disagree with
     
    It Is Possible likes this.

Share This Page