Being a normal person again & leaving harmful Nofap ideology

To each their own. In my opinion, there's nothing to fear here if you can develop and maintain some discipline as well as morals. And before someone comes back at me with something about judging people too harshly, I'm not doing that. I'm flawed myself. But I've worked on my faults and I'm better off for it today.

 

This analogy makes no sense.

All an alcoholic needs to do to no longer be addicted is to not drink alcohol. Just as the porn addict needs to not watch porn. What are these million other things they need to do?

Well I hope you don't mind me asking then but what are you doing on this site if you don't believe in it?

 

1. I guess the recovery period depends on what you were recovering from. I suffered mainly from two things: exorbitant time wasted PMOing and PIED. I spent several hours a day PMOing, and was unable to have sex at age 19. Recovering from the first took like 30 days of rebooting, but recovering from PIED took 6-7 months. I would still have slip ups after that, but besides some slip ups during the initial Covid lockdowns, porn never really had any directly adverse effects on my life. I still deal with "urges", but they've been decreasing in frequency and intensity ever since I started recovering about 4 years ago.

Will a relapse set me back?

Will stopping porn solve my problems?

How do I know when I’m back to normal?

2. The point of the reboot is get your brain to "forget" about porn in a way. When you don't use PMO, the neurons in your brain wired to porn slowly get weaker and start to wither away. After about 90 days, you start in positive activities that build neurons wired to beneficial things, like sex, socializing, exercising, etc. However, a lot of those neurons wired to porn are still in place, so using again will activate and strengthen them if they haven't been dormant long enough. This pattern can lead to binge behavior, in which the frequency of porn use decreases but the stimulation is much higher, leading to the same symptoms.

Why is intermittent use (long abstinence with binges) an addiction risk?

If you just happen across an ad with a naked woman, that's definitely not a relapse or even a "reset". In fact, if you truly encounter some arousing media by accident and immediately turn it off, you're actually strengthening the part of the brain that resists porn.

Your last paragraph pretty much sums up NoFap. Most people come here because they are using so much porn that its interfering in their life and/or causing sexual dysfunctions. The first step in recovery is the reboot (to help your mind "forget" about porn for the meantime) followed by the rewire, where you spend time engaging in healthy activities and resensitizing your brain to positive sexual activities, such as flirting, dating, cuddling, kissing, and having sex. Once you've rewired adequately, you build a lifestyle that discourages porn use so that the remaining neural networks wired to porn can eventually erode away.

After this, sure, use porn if you want. I've come to the realization though that it is really something in my life that provides no benefits so I do not plan to ever go back. When I'm horny I have sex with my girlfriend. When I'm anxious or stressed I go exercise. When I want to treat myself for having a rough week or celebrating something I cook myself a steak. With all the harm porn has done me, there is no logical reason for me to use again. I think for most it brings no benefit, it only soothes a tired mind, and my ways of soothing myself are much healthier and effective.

If you're looking for better info about porn abuse and recovery, I suggest checking out YBOP's overview and FAQs. NoFap was built of YBOP ideas, but their information is much more positive and objective.

Start here for an overview of key concepts

Porn FAQs

 

All of those things also apply to any other addiction. They are all building blocks to help move away from the addiction, you don't have to do them but they will put you on a path that has a better chance of succeeding. I'm sure if you were to read an alcoholic or drug addict forum then you would see many of the same posts you see on here.

If you've gotten to the point of feeling the need to join an online recovery forum in order to stop doing something then clearly it's gone past the point of just being problematic. You may not find it helpful to class it as an addiction but the reality of the matter is that in a lot of cases, it is.

 

Yeah so there are different phases that people who have been abusing porn typically go through once they quit. In the first phase you're just more horny and excited, there's not really a name for it, just antsy because you're not getting your fix.

The next phase is called the flatline. It's not well understood, but it is incredibly common. It usually starts around day 14-30 and last for the majority of the reboot. You feel foggy, slow, unmotivated, drained, all around really shitty. It's theorized your mind goes "Oh we're not getting aroused anymore? We're going to feel like shit until we do again". YBOP has better documentations and descriptions.

What does withdrawal from porn addiction look like?

HELP! I quit porn, but my potency, genital size, and/or libido are decreasing (the Flatline)

Why am I feeling so sad about giving up porn?

It isn't permanent though, and even when the Flatline stops you're not "recovered", you just move on to the next phase of recovery.

I think of porn abuse as a health issue, and symptoms of porn abuse like PIED, HOCD, etc as injuries. As a health issue can lead to injuries, porn abuse can lead to these symptoms. You work your way to move away from having a health issue, but you are objectively recovered or not from injuries. Once you're recovered from an injury you keep yourself healthy to prevent it, but you have to consistently avoid the health issue for the rest of your life. Similarly, you are either recovered or not from HOCD/PIED, but you gotta avoid porn abuse for the rest of your life.

Yeah some people are able to use porn healthily after they recover, some can use porn without any bad effects, and some just cannot. It's just like any other drug. How it affects you really depends on your environment and genes. I'm a pretty big drinker and I'm going to do that forever, but I feel super high risk for developing issues with porn so I don't go back. I could care less what others do, I just think that if you had such high issues you shouldn't go back. Additionally, within the first few years of recovery, there's still lots of brain wiring that remembers porn, so while you think you may be logically thinking about using porn again, it could be part of your still-addicted brain tricking you back into the spiral.

YBOP is one of the oldest sources and is primarily about getting rid of negative effects, such as PIED, PIDE, PE, acquired attractions, and other sexual dysfunctions. I started using their stuff in 2018 and the material has not changed at all. It wasn't made by influencers or social media personalities, it was made by this researcher named Gary Wilson who died recently, so there likely won't be much change in the future.

 

The Flatline only refers to symptoms including but not limited to low-energy, brain fog, and very decreased sexual motivation within 100 days of your first reboot. It seems common when rebooting, but no one really knows why exactly it happens, even the YBOP people. Anyone that says they know is misinformed.

If you are not rebooting, you are not experiencing the Flatline; the symptoms may be the same, but it's just something else. If you are past 100 days of your reboot, you aren't in the Flatline, you're sex drive is just low.

The reason the Flatline is talked about is because when people quit porn, they expect to feel better, but many feel worse. The Flatline is documented so that people trying to recover do not get discouraged and continue on rebooting. Otherwise, it's not useful to dwell on or think about. If you're rebooting and you feel shitty, that's normal, just keep going. In all other circumstances, it's something else, no use in arguing about it.

All humans make decisions but our subconscious brain consistently influences us, whether we know it or not. We are humans but we are still animals, and remnants of our evolutionary past significantly influence our perception and behavior. It's why taller men are seen as more attractive, why racial/ethnic groups can feel suspicious towards each other, and why porn is fun to watch at all. Porn is pixels of light playing on a 2D screen with accompanying sound. You obviously know it's not sex, or even 2 people in front of you having sex, but you still feel arousal because older parts of your brain don't understand what's in front of you and tells your conscious mind that it's arousing. This subconscious facet of you can quietly nudge you to use again without you knowing at all

Do what you want, this advice applies to any sort of substance or behavior that someone has abused. Alcoholics, coke addicts, porn abusers, gamblers, etc. can all quit, but likely still have thoughts that "I'll just do it one more time, won't hurt anyone". Are they logically making that decision, or are they being unknowingly being influenced by a subconscious part of their brain. No one really knows, but many who want to get out of that cycle may say afterwards "I wasn't thinking straight" or "I was on autopilot".

We are all in control of our decisions, but we can be both very compelled to make certain choices or quietly pushed in one way or another.

 

Lmao it doesn't seem very empowering for someone with severe compulsions to be told "just don't make that decision again". Sometimes there's something else going on and you need better information to tackle the problem. If you can just stop then great for you, but most people here can't! We need a new strategy because our brains have literal neurons built up to encourage the behavior we are trying to stop. It can apply to anything

White people who grew up in homogenous neighborhoods may feel anxiety around minorities to the point it affects how they treat others. Women who grew up with abusive fathers may be apprehensive and untrustworthy of men in opposition to their rational thinking. Like have you never picked up a habit you realized you didn't want and experienced resistance trying to fix it? Do you make every single decision with complete rationality? If so you should have had plenty of time to optimize your decision making within 20 years of life.

For everyone else, we still have to deal with satiating what I call our "lizard brain". If you eat ice cream everyday as a kid and then stop as an adult because you're getting fat, you're still gonna crave ice cream, possibly to the point that it's either debilitating or so compelling you give in. If you got woken up by your mom every day for school, you're going to find it hard to wake yourself up for classes in college. If you use porn every day of your life as a teenager, it's probably going to be tricky to just stop cold turkey.

If you can just stop watching porn, why don't you? I personally don't get any benefit from porn. All around there are healthier and more lasting ways to relieve stress, feel more focused, and treat yourself than a PMO sesh, even if infrequent.

If you have a good reason to watch porn I'm all ears, otherwise why keep it up?

 

This happened to me. I thought that a strict 90 day reboot and trying to go as far as I could without porn would change my life. Thing is it didn't really work because I didn't try to change anything else. I used instagram, reddit, twitter, and snapchat, all which can possibly trigger me into viewing X-rated content. I still had lustful thoughts, made sexual jokes, and had a bad relationship with a girl because of my extreme anti-sex views. Like I wouldn't kiss her because I was scared I would get an erection. WTF. I know I'm under 18 but I now don't think erection = sex. However, since my first 90+ days success, my life has become overwhelmingly better. Better social skills, goals, strength, health, athletic ability, fulfillment, faith, and happiness. There always room to improve, but NoFap successfully kickstarted my redemption.

Now in general, I don't think NoFap will work perfectly for most people, even after a year or two of practicing it. Porn is definitely bad across the board, its never helped anyone in the long run. But if you become addicted to the binge sessions every 30 to 90 days through NoFap methods then NoFap can negatively impact your life.

My new approach to NoFap is a heavy focus on all the little details in my life, such as relationships, health, sleeping and eating, productivity, and slip-ups.

90 day streaks that is only no-porn but allows M and O isn't going to rewire the brain against the masturbation addiction and you might just become the same pitiful loser just looking at picture of slightly-clothed girls rather than hardcore videos. Doesn't really change a thing. 30 day streaks with binge sessions between each one also doesn't help. This has happened to me throughout the year, although this time I'm taking preparation actions in order to not make the same mistake again. I need to reboot my brain against binge sessions, I need absolutely nothing related to porn right now. Also, trying to limit the use of porn/waiting for a time when you actually need to quit porn aren't gonna work either. People who say "I could quit at any time" really don't get it until they try quitting. In addition, if you've been attempting NoFap for a while by trying to reduce the percentage of days you use it, then you're still solidifying the repetitive action of porn usage.

My current "streak" is only 14 days, however it has been more genuine than my No Nut November 25 day streak because I have made changes in every other aspect of my life. I'm also keeping a log this time which helps me count up all my slip-ups in order to prevent more.

Now for the OP, if their life can truly be improved through their strategy of not acknowledging porn addiction's existence, then go for it. But if it doesn't work, then I'd definitely say they need a new method to stop porn, and it begins with a change of lifestyle. And we already know NoFap works, we've seen so many success stories on this website. It's just the people who are struggling to overcome the challenge are the majority so it can hurt our confidence.

Edit: Even though my streak has been absolutely amazing so far, I haven't hit the Flatline phase yet. Even though my overall sex drive decreases during the Flatline, I will likely be in increased danger of relapse because boredom leads to curiosity leading to viewing sexual imagery leading to arousal leading to edging leading to PMO. I think its gonna hit for me after 30 days or so, I am definitely planning ways on how to deal with it.

TL;DR: The NoFap isn't the problem. It's the execution. So many people attempting NoFap become depressed or hopeless through the wrong strategies and plans. It's out of our control to stop the porn industry from flourishing, but it's within our control to become the masters of NoFap. The only way we can beat porn addiction is to analyze every move it can make on us and plan the best strategy to stop its control.

 

Once your brain is rewired, you won't have the fear to look at porn. A person with a rewired brain accidentally seeing porn will go, eww, this is nasty, how could I have ever enjoyed this crap. You are freeing yourself from porn, not moving to another prison. I agree, the "monk" mentality might not be the right pathway, but quitting porn doesn't mean you have to become a monk.

Me, as an addict seeking recovery, feared porn, until the tipping points where I'd completely contradict all my preparatory actions and relapse. It was an abandonment of my recovery plan. Now, I don't fear porn but fear the abandonment of my recovery plan. The abandonment of my recovery plan would be becoming a loser again, quitting interactions with females, stopping sports and working out, quitting on school. THAT pathway is clearly going to ruin my life, so I'm confident in my recovery. The last 2 weeks I've had since relapse have been the 2 most confident I've ever had at the beginning. Being afraid of porn is probably better than being an actual fan of it. Becoming indifferent to it, preventing its existence, involvement, and interference in your life while improving other areas of life will most certainly make things a whole lot better.

Edit: like @moderstore99 said, you don't want to have to use NoFap forever, its goal is to be a transitionary phase from old life to new.

 

This resonated with me to a certain degree. My early fight against porn definitely made it the boogyman of my life. I personally have a religious moral objection to porn so my goal is to expunge it from my lifestyle as much as I can, but I've learned recently that my goal shouldn't be defeating porn but being free of its hold over my life. I've been learning that there's more to my life than just this struggle and that freedom in my religion isn't being able to overcome my moral shortcomings, but rather coming to terms with the fact that my moral shortcomings have been made virtually obsolete compared to things in life that are far more important.

That mindset has helped me quite a bit. I honestly hated the "Always an addict" mindset. It's why I couldn't get into SAA as a recovery group and opted for one that focuses on, drives people towards, and celebrates the progress being made. If I get too legalistic about this, I'm giving it control over my life. Honestly, I've been kinda falling back into that legalism in light of a prospective relationship that seems promising.

I need to keep in perspective that it's non-substantial, although also keep in mind it's still a regular habit. That's the next right step for me.

 

Same here, when I first tried nofap I didn't feel too bad after relapsing, actually I felt kind of good and de-stressed. Once I started keeping track of my streaks and became more conscious of the negative affects of porn I began to feel like complete shit after a relapse

 

Man I'm half way through reading and this is quite groundbreaking. Thank you very much for referencing!