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Am I being petty?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by CdB, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. CdB

    CdB Fapstronaut

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    I am new here, and I have questions. First, I'm a middle aged female married to a middle aged male. We've been married just over 3 years. My 3rd, his first.
    I discovered his porn shortly after we married - I had NO idea. I was so naïve. I'm learning a lot, and it's rattling my foundation badly. After confronting him a few times about it (and he lied every single time), he finally told me he had "quit doing that stuff". I'm not inclined to just flatly believe him, as I know he's capable of lying very easily. He is also a recovering alcoholic - this I know for sure - he is sober for over 6 years. But he was deep in the bottle for 15 years or more before this. So he has the addictive mentality going on in his head.
    My question at this moment is: am I being unrealistic to ask him to stop masturbating as well as not viewing porn? I've found that every time I get the feeling he has M'd I get angry and hurt and confused.
    I absolutely hate confrontation, I'd rather pretend everything is just hunky-dory and go about my life than have any kind of confrontation with anyone. But I'm almost to the point of wanting to throw him out the door. And he doesn't want to talk about it, gets all petulant and angry if I try to bring it up. I think I walked in on him about to do himself a favor last night, and I'm so mad today I could just spit nails. I surely didn't sign up for this! My first 2 husbands were cheaters, credit to my 1st - he's still married to the woman he cheated on me with. The 2nd had 2 wives after me.......
    I know this is long and rambling, and thank you for sticking with me this long. If anyone has any insights, advice, good jokes to shake me up, I'd really appreciate it!
     
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  2. JoeinUSA

    JoeinUSA Fapstronaut

    I don't think you're being petty at all, and your emotions are justified, but I'm not sure acting on that anger in rash fashion will bring you your desired outcome. Along with the wild swing of emotions, you may need to stop, think, access your motivations, and ultimate goals for your life, and then direct your actions accordingly in rational fashion - which may be a mixture of tough love as well as whole-hearted and patient support of any movement that turns toward or supports any direction toward recovery, whether in little steps or big ones.

    What exactly do you want to happen? Have him shape up (it would be nice, of course), give this up for you, and if he makes one lapse, good-bye you're out the door? I think that will be exactly what may happen, unfortunately, with that approach.

    Here are some thoughts:

    1. Your husband will never be able to conquer this addiction for anyone but himself ultimately, and he first needs to admit he has a problem - it's the AA scenario all over again. Also, he'll never succeed in conquering this addiction or maybe admitting even that he has a problem if he feels badgered, under duress, or the target of anger. And, indeed his defenses are up and he is lying to you, and you do not deserve it, but it is a part of the very addiction and sickness and his denial of a problem and perhaps embarrassment and/or anger of being exposed. You don't have to believe his lies, but you can choose whether to write him off and to lash out angrily in return or to return a rational tough love - I don't necessarily need to believe you, you'll have to earn my trust again, and you'll need to see how destructive this addiction is to us and seek the recovery you need for our relationship to ultimately work.

    2. I do not think that his porn addiction is the same as acting out and cheating with another woman - like your previous husbands. And, of course, porn and masturbation is all about a drug dopamine addiction and the physical side of sexual release and maybe even covering or medicating inner brokenness or inferiority issues that have nothing to do with sex. I seriously doubt that your husband is entertaining loving, relational thoughts about other woman in porn and emotionally cheating on you in that way - even as it hurts you emotionally, of course. His emotions are probably quite dead and hardened when he indulges in this, and there is no semblance of love or relationship in this addiction to porn. It just doesn't go there. So, I wouldn't get angry on that level, but there should be concern on how this addiction affects your own relationship with each other or lack thereof. And, then again, what do you want the outcome to be?

    3. Ultimately for the two of you to stay together, he's going to have to come to admit he has an addiction, see how it affects his sexual and emotional life and relational life with you, realize it is very destructive to his happiness and yours, and ultimately want to seek recovery with a support group like Nofap (or another therapeutic avenue), wherein he can work his recovery freely, privately, securely, and without the syndrome of "mommy" forcing him or leading him by the hand. If he were to approach his program of recovery this way - if he can get to the level of freely and self-motivatingly want such recovery, he will come to learn also that he can be more open and apologetic to you as he discovers how other guys have approached their own wives. It will make all the difference at that time if he finds a wife who is supportive of his recovery (with tough love when needed, perhaps) or whether he finds a wife who is begrudgingly impatient with the whole process of recovery and any possible relapses and also angry at every past porn or masturbatory activity he ever indulged in (he will never have any chance of leaving behind such a history that way).

    4. In many ways, what Al-Anon is to AA, you will also need some support as a wife of a recovering addict, and there are many other wives on here further along in the process and further behind you even. You will want to find support with such women, hopefully sifting your way through to those wives who have more experience and wisdom of this recovery process. Latching onto and venting with just another angry and confused wife may be cathartic, but I don't know if it will ultimately provide you with direction, as you will need.

    Anyway, I am sorry for all the suffering this brings you both as a couple and empathize with the hard work that lays ahead.

    Best wishes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2015
    CdB, TheWife, Handzfree and 1 other person like this.
  3. Traci

    Traci Fapstronaut

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    Don't hold things in. Always walking on egg shells is a sure fire way to destroy your relationship. It will build resentment and that will affect your feelings towards him.

    My wife and I are in our second marriages (30 years now). We both don't want to "rock the boat" but that has led to some difficult times. I found it takes a lot of courage to overcome the fear of being rejected but its SO worth it as long as you bring up your concerns in a loving way, rather than in an accusative way.

    M is such a private thing that its difficult to talk about. I told my wife I was working on NOFAP and I think it was a relief for her. I know she was aware of my habit and tried to excuse it but it really bothered her. I told her that I wanted to sacrifice my self pleasure for our own increased intimacy. She said she was happy I talked to her about it.

    I am having problems because this has been a life long addiction but WE are working on it.

    Try to get him to talk about it. Be as loving and understanding as you can.

    BTW, I gave up smoking and drinking "cold turkey" years ago. That was a heck of a lot easier for me that nofap.
     
    CdB likes this.
  4. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Your feelings of anger, hurt and confusion are justified CdB. It is normal for you to feel this way. However, it is unlikely you be able to get your husband to stop PMO by just asking him to stop or telling him you object to it. Like you say, he gets angry every time you try to bring it up. He is currently in denial, but for him to stop requires a conscious effort and dedication on his part in order to quit. And that can only come from within himself.

    My advice would be, try educating him on porn addiction. For this, you will need to confront him, and perhaps even give him an ultimatum- ie "we need to sit down and talk about this, otherwise I'm done with this marriage"- sort of thing. For the education, I suggest he watches these two videos:



    Good luck.
     
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  5. CountryDude

    CountryDude Fapstronaut

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    Ok, I sympathize with you. I really do.

    But let's look at how P addiction usually happens.

    We are exposed to P at a young age. We are usually still children, more or less. We think watching P is normal and harmless. Everyone is doing it. Its on our TVs, computers, magazines..literally everywhere (to one extent or another). Our instincts tell us to enjoy it. We go crazy for it and by the time we are adults we are addicted.

    With that in mind, please try to be understanding. I guess, if he had been smoking since the age of 13 and was an addict, you wouldn't feel so hurt and confused. After all, it doesn't involve the taboo and smoking is a normal addiction. Also, sex is something that is supposed to be only with you and not randoms girls on the computer screen. So, I understand why you feel the way you do, but looking at it objectively - its probably not really his fault and I am sure he doesn't want to hurt you. Also, I dare you to find a man who doesn't masturbate or look at porn, in this day and age (sorry). A needle in a haystack comes to mind.

    His petulance is actually nothing more than shame and embarrassment, in my opinion. An expected reaction to being confronted with such a taboo thing. He clearly feels bad.

    You are, of course, a very good partner to him. You want to understand and make it work.

    So, to answer you title question: Are you being petty?

    Definitely not. I personally think P should be illegal in western countries, like it is in many Asian countries. You are not being petty.

    You are, however, being a little naive. Porn is shoved in our faces our whole lives, of course people (men especially) are jacking off to it.
     
  6. DireMerl

    DireMerl Fapstronaut

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    Hi there. Went through the same thing with my husband. I felt like I was going crazy. You're not petty, and you're not crazy. My husband denied his pmo addiction for years. Every time I would try to talk to him about it, which was difficult for me because I too don't like confrontation, he would get angry and defensive. It got to the point I just stopped asking him about it because I couldn't stand the angry silences. It took us going to sex therapy for his addiction to come out properly. Since then we have learned how to communicate properly. But he has to want it too. It may take some time.

    Is try sitting down with him and telling him how you feel. Don't blame or accuse. Just tell him how you feel. Try and start a conversation. If that doesn't work then I suggest therapy. Its a non threatening way to bring up these issues and it should pave the way for you to start rebuilding your relationship.
     
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  7. CdB

    CdB Fapstronaut

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    I sincerely thank you all for taking the time to respond to my question with such articulate and thoughtful answers! You folks are amazing.
    Yes, I understand that P is everywhere - we're bombarded by it every day and every where. It seriously takes a super-human effort Not to see it. And you know, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't directly affect me (other than the people involved in it against their will, which is a whole 'nother issue).
    But it Does affect me. DH is not truly bringing intimacy to relationship, it's all about him (even when he's giving me O's, it's for his pleasure). And I know that's the PMO, it has re-wired his brain to see women (me) as objects, body parts, for pleasure. I feel like he wants to be better, he's very affectionate, he just has No idea how - partly because he refuses to believe it's an addiction. And he uses it as a crutch, it's his pacifier, his go-to-sleep ritual. I feel bad for him, but I also feel bad for Me!
    He's a bit better than when he was using P daily, but he's still M'ing so his mind isn't clear. He has nothing left for me, to show me real true love. I don't know if that makes sense, but I just wish I could somehow gently get through to him how much I love him and want him to get free from it all for both of us. I think therapy would be great, if we had someone near who was trained in this specific issue.
    Ah, the changes this makes us go through!
     
  8. DireMerl

    DireMerl Fapstronaut

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    You should be able to find a couples councillor near you somewhere. They don't necessarily have to be sexual therapy experts. We were lucky to find the only sexual therapist in our area and we had to pay to see them. Other than that you could tell him you've been reading up on here about it and suggest he looks at some of the threads on here. It is hard to admit you have a problem But ignoring it won't make it go away. If anything it makes it worse. Be very clear on how it makes you feel and that you need to start having a real conversation about the issue. He needs to see that it's affecting you and your relationship and you need to be firm. Be brave. I wish you luck.
     
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  9. CdB

    CdB Fapstronaut

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    Warning - a bit explicit. I'm kind of at a loss, I love my hubby. I truly can't imagine my life without him. We get along so well, and other than this "pink elephant in the room" our marriage would be near perfect.
    But it seems like since he supposedly stopped watching porn, I think he's making up for it by MO'ing more frequently. I guess that's kind of normal addict behavior though. Take away the vodka, well I'll just drink twice as much beer....
    Maybe the men here can speak to this: he has no problem whatsoever with ED, but he can't climax with me without twisting me into one of his "porn poses" and pounding away like a jack-hammer - is this directly due to MO'ing? That is my hypothesis, but I don't even know what to say to him. It's been getting steadily worse since about July. Yesterday he said "I don't know what's going on, why I can't, I'm going to have to ask the doctor". I didn't say anything, but in my head it's just yelling "stop MO'ing!!!" (And he has an abrasion rash on his P AGAIN - not from me btw)
    I would be so happy to go to couples therapy - how do I gently convince him that this may be necessary for our marriage? I've suggested it, I've also strongly suggested he check out this site as well as your brain on porn. He wants me to actually do that for him - he refuses even to remember the names of these 2 sites. I'm at a loss how to get through to him, I sure don't want to be the wicked witch - that's just not me. But I'm feeling a bit like a blow-up doll lately......
     
  10. TheFiancée

    TheFiancée Fapstronaut

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    Well, from my experience: the not coming in/with you is absolutely related to MO'ing. My fiancé and I had that exact problem for ...well...until he realized it was directly connected, stopped MO'ing and after some weeks (in his case) suddenly it worked. Now we're doing the hard mode together (...grrrrmpf...this is hard for me as well by the way...) so I am looking forward to exploring everything anew (very slowly though) with him once he feels sure about it - thus after 90+ days. I would recommend that to everyone going through this, but he needs to deal with it first. He needs to want to be honest about it (with himself first of all) and go through it on his own account. Well, nothing new here...
    You're not the wicked witch. You're his partner, his beloved, his friend. You are concerned for him, for yourself and your relationship and you want to change the situation. That is all very understandable and reasonable!
    I hope you can find a way to communicate your concerns and fears so he understands it and hopefully he will also understand that he is the one who needs to take action if he wants the situation to change for the better.

    I wish you all the best, be strong and take really good care of yourself!
     
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  11. DireMerl

    DireMerl Fapstronaut

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    If he is uncertain that it is the problem, then I would suggest physically sitting down with him and reading something like 'yourbrainonporn' or watch the ted talks video together. He can't expect you to look up all this stuff for him. He's a grown man! I'm sure I read somewhere that you could try making an apointment with a couples councillor, tell him that you're going and tell him you hope he will come too. That might get him thinking. Other than that you have to just keep telling him how it makes you feel. Try telling him that it hurts your feelings to be twisted into porn shapes and used as a sex toy. Tell him you feel degraded rather than sexy and it's effecting your enjoyment of sex. Be honest. The only thing I can suggest is to keep telling him that you're not comfortable with the situation and it needs to change. Either he'll get on board or he won't. I know how you feel about the elephant in the room. We had one for years. And it will never go away unless you have it head on. Decide where the line is for you and stick to it. I understand you feel like your marriage is perfect other than this one issue. I feel like that with my husband. We enjoy the same things, similar taste in films, tv, music. We have a similar sense of humour. We get on pretty great. But sex became such an issue for us that it got in the way of everything else. Resentment builds up over time and it's corrosive. Its left me with a lot of self image issues and him with a ton of anxiety and depression. So I would say to keep trying to open up the lines of communication between you. Eventually something will have to give and he'll realise what a strain this is putting on you both.

    That's not to say you need to jump on him every two seconds with conversation about porn. That will probably just annoy you both. Sit down. Have a good long chat and make your feelings clear. Show him this forum of he won't look at it himself. I hope this helps. Its such an appaling issue to be caught up in. It takes a he'll of a lot of strength from both parties to make any progress. But you're the only one who knows how much you're willing to put up with. Good luck xx
     
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  12. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    The believe the reason he can't climax is not only from him MOing, but from excessive porn use also. I had a similar problem with my SO before I found nofap where I would only be able to climax if I was in control and pounding away.

    In a way, I see that as a form of PIED (porn induced erectile dysfunction) because it inhibits his ability to climax and it is caused by porn. In my case, I stopped porn and mastubation, now I can pretty much climax anyway she wants me to. It is wonderful.

    Of course, it could be other things, but I think your best bet is for him to abstain from PMO and test it for himself. I'd give it at least a month. Even if he is just MOing, he could be fantasizing about porn which is exactly the same as watching, but without the screen.

    You aren't crazy and I put my SO through the same shit. I am so sorry you have to feel this way. Like @NoBrainer said, give him an ultimatum and get him educated. Hopefully, it will wake him out of his denial. Good luck!
     
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  13. CdB

    CdB Fapstronaut

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    That is an awesome idea!! Thank you DireMerl - it's kind of a softer way of bringing it to the table. Trust me I don't harp on this, even though it's on my mind a lot. We work different schedules so we don't really have much time to spend together, and I try to make it as pleasant as possible.
     
  14. CdB

    CdB Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your thoughtful input Sun Bro, I really appreciate the male viewpoint (@NoBrainer as well!) because I don't know how it feels to be a man, and even though I'm trying my best to empathetic, it's rough. And add the lies and deception/deflection, my sympathy is starting to wear thin as well. I'm preaching to the choir here, I know. Just know that I really appreciate the validation, it means a lot to know that this is pretty typical behavior and I'm not right round the bend yet!
     
  15. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    These signs are absolutely from MOing, there is little doubt. The delayed ejaculation, as well as the abrasions on his penis are signs of death grip, that is masturbating with a strong grip, squeezing the penis to kingdom come! :eek: If he has indeed stopped using porn like he claims, it is likely that he will try to find other ways of making up for the lack of stimulation that porn provided him with previously.

    I'm sorry to hear that this whole situation may feel so hopeless at the moment. :( However, I see a method to which you can get through to him, that he has identified himself. That is, you do it for him. You show him the videos I suggested, or go through some good articles on Gary Wilson's site with him. You don't have to be the wicked witch, that is not the purpose of this exercise. You are doing it to be real with him, to show him how his habit is affecting both you and him. You're feeling like a blow up doll- tell him. You're feeling conflicted by his habit- tell him. One thing seems clear to me about this situation- your confrontation to him must be devoid of anger and frustration. You are hurting, yes, but is unlikely that you will be able to get through to him via expressing your frustration towards him. It is unfortunate, but that method will easily allow him to lie back on one of his defences to ignore the problem like he has been doing so far.

    I would go so far as to say you should be so apathetic that it scares the living daylights out of him. That isn't a confrontation, it's telling things like they are. Desperate times call for desperate measures, so you must get through to him in a way that doesn't allow him to fall back on his defences. I hope you can get through to him, so he can reconsider his position and your guys' situation. Good luck.
     
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