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This is Bullshit

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by TimCole11, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. Phibz

    Phibz Fapstronaut

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    This is what I'm talking about. I don't comment on here to butt hurt somebody. I'm still working on me, too. I get frustrated because I KNOW that if I did it, anyone can. I need to get called out on my bullshit, too. I found this site while I was trying to figure out why I suffered from PIED and what I could do about it. I had no idea that my penis had very little to do with my happiness. Giving up this habit was the scariest thing in the world at the time. I truly feel that I have found something that few people are able to grasp. I'm not coming from ego. I feel extremely fortunate to be the exception. I wanted to die. And I realized that I'd never even lived. I was so pathetic. I was dead. I had my share of excuses. My mother's life was ended tragically when I was 5. My father became a zombie. I went from a loving, happy household to an extremely abusive home. I never had the talk about the birds and bees. Instead, my stepmother turned my stepbrother and I onto hardcore porn at 14 yrs old. So yeah, I had my share of issues. I had to give up this habit because it was the only way I could quit living in the past. My abuse as a child and this habit were intertwined. I'm finally at a place in my life where I have absolutely no regrets about anything that has ever happened to me. When you can come out on the other side of the shit that I've been through and have no regrets, then you KNOW that you have something to offer this world. You begin to see people in a different light. Because you know that your fellows have their own demons. And they aren't much different from your own. I used to think that compassion was doing something nice for someone and getting that warm, fuzzy feeling inside. But when I didn't get the response I expected, compassion seemed like bullshit. True compassion comes from reaching out to another human being because you understand that they are merely an extension of yourself. You feel a connection because you feel their pain. And you know that something beautiful is behind all that bullshit, because you know your true self. I'm not apologizing. I'll call you on your shit in a fucking heartbeat. Life is precious. I'm not going to waste anyone's time if I can help it.
     
  2. TimCole11

    TimCole11 Fapstronaut

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    I'll clear up my points. The idea of this forum is to help people reach their goals. If you see this as purely as a forum to just pat ourselves on our backs no matter our success or failures then this thread isnt for you. By all means if pure success stories and feel good thoughts are what work for you then go for it.
    On the otherhand continue, if you actually want to seriously discuss the issue for what it is and not sugarcoat it, read on.
    To quickly cover your other question. I have do not want other people to be hopeless, I want people to succeed. But I believe if people purely rely on hope they will fail. I believe a different approach more than just kind words and hope needs to be taken.

    Now go onto the front page of this forum or r/nofap/new (page 2 as well if you really want) and look at the number of threads that come up over and over again. "I failed again", "Whats wrong with me", "I went 3 months and just binge relapsed". Its countless and the same responses continues. "Dont get discouraged", "You need to fight harder", "You should be real proud of 3 months". Now its fine to encourage people, I think that's important and necessary.
    And then what these people (and myself many times) will do is make a list of something along the lines of:
    - Go to the gym everyday
    - Eat healthy
    - Write in my journal everyday
    - Meditate
    - Cold showers
    - Not go on my computer for more than 2 hours a day
    - Follow the same guidelines set up for different addictions
    - etc..., etc.., etc...
    (These are all great for improving your life and should be done, Im not discouraging this).

    But I am trying to explain, from my experience (which is likely many others) this will not work for most people. After I write this list, I think to myself there is no way I can fail now, its simply not an option, and with 100% confidence is my new future success I set out. I last a week, a month, 2 months, 3 months, whatever. I yet always end up back right at the beginning. And sadly, and very unfortunately due to the nature of this problem, I make 0 progress.
    Having this false sense of hope is damaging our progress because we think we are more confident about are chances of success than we really are.

    We need to view this from a whole different point of you. Something that can not be beaten through shear will alone. I unfortunately dont have the holy grail solution. Perhaps its what someone else in this thread suggested and completely eliminate gadgets from our lives indefinitely (a very difficult thing to do). Or perhaps it's something I haven't even thought of yet.

    Anyways, I've said quitting should never be an option and my intention isn't to discourage people. My initial post likely annoyed some people because I realize it came out negative. And yes, part of the reason I wrote it was to vent my frustration. But there's a more important point to it in that we somehow have brain chemistry that is different than others. I can't exactly explain it and I'm actually confident noone on this planet truly understands it. I have my theories but they are right now just theories.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
    Gladiatori and Phibz like this.
  3. TimCole11

    TimCole11 Fapstronaut

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    I appreciate your point of view. I think having conflicting points of views on topics is progressive. If everyone constantly agreed with each other all the time we wouldn't get very far.
    No need to apologize. Speak your mind.
     
    Phibz likes this.
  4. JoePineapples

    JoePineapples Fapstronaut

    In my ever so humble opinion, there are is only one reason to respond to a thread (on here), and that's to help the poster out. There are a couple of ways to do this, encouragement, advice, sometimes just empathy and support, and sometimes, just occasionally a well aimed kick up the arse.


    Why so? What you're describing is exactly like an addiction to gambling or alcohol. A long period clean, followed by a relapse, often a binge, and then a long slow climb out of the new pit you've dug yourself. Saying this comes across as pretty disrespectful to people facing challenges with other addictions.

    You're not unique, or special in this. You're not the unluckiest 1% of 1%.
    It's not 'just you' – there are over 52,000 members of this forum, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm betting there are a ton of people in your circle that are having problems, it's just not the sort of thing men talk about.

    There are success stories, and whining that they are "either one in a thousand, or much more likely you aren't in the same addiction state as me" just comes across as the true bullshit here. Yeah, they did it, but I'm worse, what they did won't work for me, I got it real bad. Bollocks. What made you so fucking special? How fucking disrespectful can you get?

    Ok, so maybe you were venting. We all need a rant every now and then, but to then say you'd 'swap places with nearly anyone in the world' Really? Really??? That is so up yourself. Did you have food to eat yesterday? Do you have a roof over your head? Have you got two arms and two legs? Are you cancer free? Take a look at your life and you'll probably see you're in the luckiest 10% of the whole world. Don't be such a whiner. Have some gratitude for the chances you've been given.

    For me, it's not rocket science. It's not impossible. It's not even nearly impossible. OK, it's not easy, but I can sum it up in three words. DON'T BE A WANKER.

    You've been clean for a long time (months +), and then you failed. So, do more of what you did to keep yourself clean, and don't do what triggered you to fail. There's no magic bullet. There's no secret solution. People give the same advice because that's the stuff that works. You've just got to do it, then you've got to keep doing it. Don't pussy out.
    Btw, you say you know you've got to journal – but do you actually do it? How about a counter? An AP? Have you tried all those?

    You don't have to be a robot (yeah, thanks for that, another insult), you don't have to be perfect, and it's not forever (abstinence from wanking) if you don't chose it to be. Reset your brain. PIED can be sorted out. Sort it out and get on with your life. Attract one of those girls and have a loving sexual relationship, then you won't need to wank. That's what's ingrained in our DNA, by the way, actual sex with another human being. And it's far more enjoyable than one off the wrist.

    There. There's my rant over. Good luck to you.
    Peace and love, peace and love.

     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
    BlueNotes, iLoveHer and Boomer49 like this.
  5. Boomer49

    Boomer49 Fapstronaut

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    TC11,

    You're right that we M because it feels good. Mother Nature made it that we so we would want to pro-create, as @Gladiatori states. Excessive M, though, is out of the norm. See, it certainly takes up a lot of space and time on this site. LOL!

    Is there a moral component to PMOing? I know that when I was PMOing every once in a while the thought crept in that what these people on the screen were doing was wrong, exposing an intimate moment for financial gain. And, then, I'd shove that thought away because they were helping me get off. I justified it. (Double standard much?) I knew it was wrong, but I persisted, yes, because it felt good. What I didn't know was the brain/dopamine connection was harming me physically and mentally.

    We each have to seek the things that work for us if we truly want to end the grip P has on the addictive personality. Looking in the mirror has worked well for me. I'm feeling better about myself.

    *B49*
     
    Gladiatori likes this.
  6. Phibz

    Phibz Fapstronaut

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    This has been a good thread. And I have to agree with @JoePineapples. This is very much like any other addiction. It is easier to be labeled a "drunk," as opposed to a "jerk off." But we are doing something about that stigma. We are very similar. I used to write out those lists and always have a new "game plan." 98 days isn't shit. Don't take that the wrong way. I relapsed at 136 days. I deceived myself into thinking that I was cured. But deep down, I knew I still had a relapse left. Willpower has it's purpose here. But real power lies in surrendering to this. When you can totally surrender to the fact that this is destroying you, you will grow because that is your only option. Surrendering is the hardest part of this process. You aren't going to get better by just stopping PMO. I was using PMO to run away from myself. I had to figure out what it was that I was running from and start from there. For example, I look in the mirror every morning and I ask that image, "What are you still afraid of?" I ponder this a bit. And then I say, "What can I do today to overcome this?" I confronted these fears on a regular basis. I forced myself. It was scary. And eventually, I came to see my fear as unnatural and unreal. And I began to laugh at myself for the first time. I have this conversation with my reflection often. And I began to feel stronger. It doesn't happen overnight. I began to love myself again. I began to feel that sense of adventure that I had when I was 5 years old. So time away from this is not the solution. You have to be relentless in overcoming yourself. I've been through some really bad shit recently. But masturbation has been the last thing on my mind. I hope that we can get you through this. This is what they mean in AA about a "higher power." YOU and I are a power greater than just me. If you are serious about this and need an AP, I am extending my hand to you. If you aren't ready to surrender yet but want someone to talk to, feel free to PM me.
     
    A_Manifestor and JoePineapples like this.
  7. fjerid

    fjerid Fapstronaut

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    It is overly dramatic. You make it sound like it's something that only the best can do. Something like being Ussain bolt or Kobe. It's not. And "most powerful male evolutionary urge" isn't watching porn. It's reproducing. You do know that having sex and fapping to people having sex (sometimes under extreme conditions i.e. triple pen etc) have the exact opposite effect, right? It's not even remotely close to each other. Yet you're making it sound as it is. It's as easy as giving it up; if you don't have the willpower for it, then go read some books about willpower first.
     
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  8. iLoveHer

    iLoveHer Fapstronaut

    Our brain knows literally no difference between real mates or "mates" you see on your screen.
    The brain sees every one of them as a chance to pass on genes so your body reacts in a way similar to that before having an intercourse.
    Oh and btw, he's called Usain =)
     
  9. fjerid

    fjerid Fapstronaut

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    Why do people tend to feel extremely happy, alpha, good when they had sex (even the day after) but feel terribly bad, tired, demotivated after they fap? Surely, there is a huge differences between the two activities.
     
  10. iLoveHer

    iLoveHer Fapstronaut

    Of course they are different, no doubt.
    But tell that to your hedonistic brain.
    The reward system can't tell the difference, it doesn't care whether it's the screen or your wife.
     
  11. JoePineapples

    JoePineapples Fapstronaut


    For me, I always felt depressed and guilty after a wank. It's probably the brain's way of letting you know that this might not be a good idea, coupled with guilty feelings for what I'd watched, and how I've let myself and the people I love down. It's a solitary, shameful activity that you have to cover up, and are never entirely sure who suspects, what they know, what they've seen, heard.

    Sex with a loving partner is completely different. It's a connection, in the deepest way possible, an act of love, physical contact, making somebody else feel good as well as yourself. It might finish with loving words, and a cuddle (this isn't porn, when have you ever seen cuddling in porn!). It's natural. You feel good. Your partner feels good. It's something you can feel proud of. The next day you feel great!


     
    BlueNotes likes this.
  12. deadrole7

    deadrole7 Fapstronaut

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    I just want to share my two cents with you.
    I disagree with people who keep saying nofap is hard.It's not hard, you're the only one who is making it look like hard.
    Let's face it.I believe if someone thinks nofap is hard then hes doing it the wrong way.By believing it takes a lot of willpower to stop fapping, you unconsciously make it a lot harder.In contrast if you believe it's easy, it WILL BE EASY.
    I mean, as a fapper, your whole life is dominated by fapping, and that's why I think you became a member of this forum, to get help and stop being dominated, to be FREE.But if you make it harder by thinking it is so hard not to fap and it takes a lot of willpower to succeed, then your whole life will be dominated by NOT fapping, which almost guarantees you will never become free.& it also makes you think wanking is more pleasurable than it really is, and this process continues.The more you abstain, the more you mope for your exaggerated 5 seconds of pleasure, and the more miserable you will become, which usually ends up in a relapse,and you thinking you don't have enough willpower.

    If you truly want to be free of this addiction or any other addiction, I believe you must remove all the illusions first, & then FACE it.Face your fear.Sit in a silent place with zero distractions.Clear your head of any thought altogether and keep your mind blank and clear, without any fantasies.Meditate if you must.And then pull it out and start wanking.Try to keep your head clear of any thoughts, just have 100% concentration on what you are doing, feel each moment you spend for doing it.Stop whenever you want.Now think about it, is it that much enjoyable?Do you really want to spend your precious time doing THIS? Search for meanings, to what end a rational, evolved and healthy individual should be doing this? Doesn't it look absolutely RIDICULOUS?

    Maybe you think it doesn't, then I believe there is no reason to seek help.Just keep on wanking, at least you won't end up spending your whole life moping for an illusion.
     
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  13. TimCole11

    TimCole11 Fapstronaut

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    I disagree with you on the purpose of these forums. But if others are in agreement with you I wont post continue to post anything that could be considered negative. My goal is not to discourage anyone in a negative way that would possibly slow their progression. But I see it as important that we talk about things for what it is. I have a scientific background and am not religious. I realize because of these I will differ in opinion on many things, how I try to understand the core facts of something in order to understand the bigger picture and then be able to react accordingly. I think this is a more complex issue than most people view it as, similar to something like depression or anxiety where biology, chemistry, psychology all play important roles (more complex than other addictions). Talking about it gives me a better perspective on how others think and allows me to draw better conclusions of myself.

    When I say "I" I really mean "we" and more so the people who are truly addicted. Most probably wont be even posting on here but rather just browsing. I realize I am not the only one, I far from it. But I realize that the mass majority of people are not in this category. If that were the case it would be much more publicized than it is now. So for those people (you know who you are) it is a hell of a battle. One where the odds are stacked against you. Does that mean you should quit, 100% not. I believe that knowing that the odds are slim better equips you for whats ahead because you need to be willing to make sacrifices and do the extremes that are necessary to succeed. This isnt a 90 day battle. Its a battle for life.

    The swap places is an exaggeration, simply because I still believe there is a chance I could get better. If this wasnt the case then I would stand by this. People get ticked off about comments like these because they view happiness as a materialistic result. This isnt the case. The brain adapts very easily. Billionaires can become seriously depressed and poor people can be extremely happy people because your brain has adapted to a lifestyle. A would rather be a middle class who all of sudden had to live in a 3rd world country than be a rock star who had to live as a middle class. Anyways getting off topic I shouldnt get into this because itll bring us off topic. But the people who surround you and who you compare with sub-consciously have a major impact on your happiness, because your brain adapts to that standard.

    Just to close off I don't see how robot came off as an insult, but if it did that was not my intention.

    Thanks for the offer and the perspective.

    Ditto with what Kudo said.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  14. TimCole11

    TimCole11 Fapstronaut

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    I respect your thoughts, but I would have to disagree. Many have mentioned the idea that its all in your head and by releasing it from your thoughts you are able to overcome it. I dont feel this is case. This is a primal urge. Something we cant control. We can control how we respond to these urges but we cant control the urges developing. For the 99% of the time that I think clearly your post makes perfect sense. Just think logically and when you weigh your options the way is obvious. Its that 1% of the time where all of sudden Im not thinking straight that's the problem. I dont know why I get into these states, but getting rid of this rare thought pattern is very difficult. But it is crucial for success. It requires control at all times. It is possible. Yes. It is easy. No, not even close.
     
  15. CreateInMe

    CreateInMe Fapstronaut

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    Can you say more about this? I've been learning more about myself through fighting this addiction, and I've learned first and foremost that selfishness is closer to the heart of the matter. Because my addiction has hurt people close to me, but apparently that's not enough to keep me clean. I want what I want and I don't care who it hurts. But I do care...don't I?

    What darkness lies beneath selfishness? What could I be hiding from?
     
  16. BlueNotes

    BlueNotes Fapstronaut

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    At the end of the day you still love porn and cannot see the illusion. You need a quantum shift in perception. You want to love porn but hate that it has negative consequences on you and many others. You can't have your cake and eat it. Sorry dude
     
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  17. Gladiatori

    Gladiatori Fapstronaut

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    The ego is strong in this one.
    Always with him what cannot be done.
     
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  18. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Well, there is a lot of disagreement on this thread. :rolleyes:

    @TimCole11 , you make some relevant points, however I think you are making a few fundamental mistakes when it comes to your views and opinions on rebooting.
    1. You assume you are different from other people, and that the addiction is harder to beat for you than it is for other people. While there are different severities of addiction, the addictions of most of the people on this site have escalated to the point where they were finally able to realise their mistakes, and therefore start trying to recover. To think of yourself as fundamentally different from anyone else in terms of the severity of your addiction can be a rationalisation, as it almost gives you an excuse to give. This is just something to be aware of.
    2. You maintain that if you go 3 months, and then lapse, you are back to square one. This is not entirely the case. You will most likely feel terrible after a relapse, but the progress that you made in those 3 months will not be undone. The brain will still have had time to partly reboot. It is in these difficult times just after a reset that one must maintain extremely vigilant, as it is a binge that can start to undo the work done before by reinforcing the addiction, making it more difficult to abstain again. It is interesting, that some people can go for a long period of abstinence, lapse and then carry on on another long streak of abstinence, as if almost unaffected. While others fall and return to their old ways, sometimes taking months to come back and try again. It all depends on your character and the standard that you hold yourself accountable to.
    Furthermore, you make some interesting points about rebooting. I would encourage you to be a little more optimistic about your recovery. For the truth is, you can beat this addiction completely, and not go back to it. You must find a way that works for you though. I found the way that worked for me- which I have outlined in this thread. The basis of the strategy is to make an ideally infallible resolve as to why you're quitting. And then to make an action plan as to how you're going to hold yourself accountable to a high standard each day. I find this strategy negates the problem of the exhaustion of willpower. If you truly believe in your resolve- you live it, breathe it and sleep it- you will find that your willpower to quit remains constant, as there is always a good enough reason to stay clean. Also, optimism is your friend in this case. Relapse is always a choice, so if you believe that things can improve by staying clean, hopefully you can make the right decision when you feel tempted.

    Hope this helps. What do you think?

    By the way, if it's worth anything, the last time I watched pornography or masturbated at all was 16 September 2014.
     
  19. JoePineapples

    JoePineapples Fapstronaut

    Thank you @NoBrainer, an excellent post, and much more considered than mine.

    Just to clarify one point on my original post, when "there are is only one reason to respond to a thread (on here), and that's to help the poster out. There are a couple of ways to do this, encouragement, advice, sometimes just empathy and support, and sometimes, just occasionally a well aimed kick up the arse."

    What I should have said is
    "there is only one reason for me to respond to a thread on here…"
     

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