I am so proud of myself!

@Arkansasdaisy One question, does your husband know that you can see the exact data he is "using" with the friends finder you both have installed?

 

This has got to be it. He's got chaffing and PIED and blaming you. Un. Friggin'. Believable. Based on everything you've said, especially post "admission," it sound like he was just placating you. Denying use when you hold the evidence in your hands, that's not even sane. Your mom says you need to brave it out? Why? He's not the same person he used to be, in a terrible way. Help him see that? You've already said everything you could, and he's not listening. He clearly does not believe you. He's stuck in a pretend world. The only conceivable way he'll recognize it is if someone he trusts and totally unconnected to you says something about it.

Careful training for a marathon. I'd personally do a tri myself; high cardio and less impact on the joints. If it's your sixth, though, you know what you're doing.

 

Does your mom understand the difference between an addict who doesn't want to change and an addict who is fighting to get better? Maybe she equates this addiction to smoking instead of something much more serious? There is a difference between being supportive and being intentionally ignorant. Could she be carrying the biases of an earlier generation where they turned a blind eye to these kinds of problems? I could also understand the 'marriage-is-sacred' argument or the 'just-give-it-time' argument. Most of us here want couples to stay together and fix their problems but I think most of us would disagree with your mom's advice.

He has chosen to put you in second place. He has chosen his 'mistress' over you. He refuses to accept responsibility for his actions. He is emotionally hurting (possibly abusing) you by knowingly continuing his behavior. I can't advise you to stay or go because that is not my place. But I would advise you to continue to protect yourself in all ways possible - emotionally, physically, and financially. Continue to put together contingency plans so that you have options if things continue to deteriorate. I hate to say it but collect important documents or evidence that you might need if that day of reckoning does happen. By being prepared it gives you power and the freedom to choose what to do next.

 

If him reaching rock bottom is the thing you strive for, patience is the last virtue you need. Try to be selfish, cruel, dismissive, manipulative, and reckless instead. This is not the person you fell in love with, this is not the life you deserve. If you decide to help him reach rock bottom, it's your duty to make his life as miserable as possible. If you can't do that, reconsider leaving him, at least temporarily, for your own sake. I always tried to favor the "work things out" approach in my replies up to here, but I'm at my wit's end here.

 

I don't disagree with her mom's advice. Addiction is addiction ... smoking, drinking, gambling, porn, drugs, whatever.

The key is getting him to see the problem, and then change. As far as I can see, @Arkansasdaisy has got a good idea here. Talk to his mom and dad, let them know what their son's doing and that it's completely out of control - at work, at home, everywhere. Talk to a pastor or one of his trusted friends, maybe they can make a difference. People around him implicitly enable the behavior by turning a blind eye or just being unaware. You can make the environment much less "enabling" for him.

As for the "rock bottom" thing ... look, I know I'm going against all the conventional advice that's been handed out here, but I'm here and I'm trying and I'm actually doing pretty well, and I haven't reached "rock bottom". Not even close. A week clean would be an insane amount of time a couple of months ago, and now it's just breezed by. I've just always known that what I was doing was wrong and I needed to stop it. I didn't think I could stop it. Now I know that I can. That's made the difference.

"Rock bottom" is great because it forces an addict to understand that change is required. But it is an effective tool to get a result - it is not a result itself. Don't confuse the means with the ends.

 

I agree that all addictions share many things in common. We are all medicating our pain with objects or events. But there are difference tolerance levels for different addictions. No one is going to get a divorce over smoking; and family members don't give up on drug addicts right away. On the other hand, no one should have to stay in a relationship with an abusive drunk; families need to protect themselves from a gambler's addiction; and porn addiction is a betrayal of marital bond - and some addicts have escalated and broken those vows.

I agree that there are other things she could try. I'm not advocating getting a divorce attorney. I agree that there is still hope for a change. I believe spouses should be patient and loving and understanding as much as possible because addiction is a mental illness. But the 'brave it out' expression sounds too much like what wives did back in the 60's when their husband's were carrying on affairs. I don't want the OP to be guilted into believing that a 'good wife' should stay no matter what. I think she understands that and I just want to reinforce that.

I also agree with your view on hitting rock bottom. Rock bottom is only for people who are still in the depths of delusion. We see people stage interventions for drug addicts in order to cut through their delusion... that is a controlled rock-bottom moment. It's great that you are part of the lucky few who has recognized that there is a problem before you lost everything. For some people, talking reasonably does get through to the addict. But many wives have already tried that approach before coming to the forum. They are looking to try different things to get through to their loved one. In fact, instigating a controlled rock-bottom moment is an act of love, not punishment. It's done with the purpose of saving the person, not to injure them further. Controlling the 'moment' includes a path to healing. An uncontrolled 'moment' from an outside source might include getting fired from their job, having the police show up and seizing their computer, getting arrested for solicitation, or contracting a disease. (BTW, I understand your point and think we're in agreement)

All the spouses who show up here say the same thing - I love the man but I hate the addict. My wife stayed with me while I was addicted and her patience paid off. She got her husband back. She is a STRONG woman for waiting for me to come around. @Arkansasdaisy, YOU are a STRONG woman for doing the same thing. I hope he comes around soon and that he appreciates you for being so patient with him.

 

I'd say just quit. Quit doing anything for him. Whatever it is that you do, just stop. Then, when he says "why didn't you cook anything for me?" ask him, "why did you jerk off and ruin our weekend together?"

Geeze, that sounds immature. It's just, there's reasonable expectations in a marriage, and he's not filling any of them. He's a paycheck right now, nothing else, and it sounds like he's ok with that.

 

There are so many ways, and of course, nearly all of them can be considered immature. Silent treatment. Belittling him because of his PIED. Calling him out on his PMO habit or his PIED in public, or in front of friends. Deliberately enjoying yourself, making the best of your day, without doing a single damn thing for him. Not ever allowing sex again. Buying a sex toy and telling him it's because of his PIED. Showing him that you can still enjoy things, just not with him. If you want to be manipulative, slip into something comfortable or send him arousing texts, only to tell him that it's not happening as long as he's not stopping porn. The ignore him for the rest of the day. It will make him furious, but mere talking only brought you so far. Show him that you don't respect him, that he's not a "real man" anymore. Bring up the idea of divorce, or try to make him jealous (careful with this one).

Be creative, all bets are off right now, but be careful as well. Listen to your gut before you try out anything of this.

 

Agree

 

Since I've never been in this exact situation, I'm probably speaking out of turn ... but maybe the best thing to do would be to just prepare yourself, then leave, call it a 6-month separation due to the porn use, preliminary to divorce proceedings if there's no progress in the first month. If you want, send him messages and talk to him over the phone. Sometimes absence does make the heart grow fonder. Pour out your feelings and the hurt while you're away, send him letters about how it makes you feel. That's cathartic, and it makes him aware that there's real hurt and unhappiness that he's causing, so it should help both of you. Addicts minimize the impact of their actions. This will help him to understand that there is a real impact. He's a smart guy... he'll figure it out.

The problem with doing silent treatment, belittling, and so on is that after it's all over, you still want a relationship to come back to. Burning down the house does get rid of the rats in the attic, but it also gets rid of the rest of the house. I've tried this "strategy" literally once in my marriage, and I couldn't even keep it going for 24 hours. I'm just not that kind of a person and I have real difficulty pretending to be. It hurt me to pretend.

If you leave instead, you show the consequences and still have a relationship to come back to. Of course, if he doesn't change at all, the relationship ends anyway. But at least you've still got some good memories of it, if the worst happens, and you didn't end it bickering and sniping in a "Cold War".

 

He needs to take responsibility for his actions, just like many porn addicts have taken. Making excuses and lying about his porn usage will not help this relationship. He needs to realize that a real person is better than all of those porn videos put together. Obviously he should join Nofap at some point, but only if he wants to.

 

I have to agree with part of what @Dendrite said on this one. An addict is compromised emotionally. It is difficult for them to be emotionally mature. They can be like an emotional teenager - overly sensitive, over react, immature, infantile, and illogical. The SO should not come down to their level no matter how insensitive or stubborn they become. Parents do not come down to the teenager's level, we expect the teenager to grow up. Similarly, the goal is for the addict to grow up and become a fully functional adult again. Again, the goal is to redeem the person, not punish them.

Set up and communicate boundaries and expectations and follow through on the consequences, and even though that might hurt the addict it protects the innocent mate without being malicious. There were times my wife did things to hurt me... she wanted me to feel as much pain as she was experiencing. They didn't wake me up... they drove me deeper into my addiction. Porn became more of a haven that I could escape to.

I think the 'stay and fight' option makes both sides miserable. The addict will misinterpret the actions as further justification to indulge in their addiction. I've used the 'if she won't take care of my needs then I'll just take care of myself' excuse way too often. It didn't make me feel any better in the long run, nor did it make my wife feel better in the long run either.

I think if someone's situation is too intolerable then it's time to leave. But @Arkansasdaisy has decided on the 'stay and work' option. She is taking positive steps to improve her mental state. She is working on various forms of independence. She isn't letting herself be bullied into thinking this is her fault. And she can always change her mind. She is being the model that he is supposed to emulate.

 

I agree. Those other things sound justified and wickedly fun, but we're adults after all. There's a reason we call it immature; it feels good in the moment, but it doesn't work in the end and has terrible long term consequences. Remind anybody here of anything?

I don't know about a lot of letters, though. It might make him feel like he's in control, and one of the things I hated most was not feeling in control. Sex stuff really bothers him though, and that makes sense. He's obsessed with it, so that might be the inroad for him. Reminding him how long it's been since he's had real sex, and how many times you've tried and he hasn't been able to get it up, will have more impact than telling him how rude he's been.

 

I certainly overdid it with my previous post, and I hesitated long and hard before I submitted it. But look what happened. We have 5 replies and 8 opinions, which only shows how confused and desperate you must feel right now, if our advice ranges from A to Z. There is no right way to address things. We agree on one thing though, put yourself first. Don't let him drag you down, don't allow him to abuse his power over you. Vent as much as you want on here if it helps. We're here to listen.