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Seperation/Divorce Tips and Suggestions?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Ted Martin, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    So my wife and I have just separated on the road to divorce (in all likelihood). My wife and I are very much on the same page as each other with this and have a peace about the decision. It is very civil between us and we both still care very much for the other person and want the best for them throughout this painful detangling of our lives. I hope I'm not being naïve but I'd like to think we can keep things that way as we work through this. We have a daughter and will be doing a joint custody.

    I know each situation is unique and complicated and as a result there are probably things that only apply to each unique situation. However, I would guess that no matter what the situation there are probably some universal tips or suggestions that folks could share with him. I would certainly think that on the emotional side of things there would be a lot of overlap or commonality for those that have gone through this or are presently going through it.

    For those of you in this situation or if you've come through this situation, what advice would you give me? Suggestions and tips?
     
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  2. Hi Ted, I'm sorry that you are going through this, it was heart breaking to read.
    It is a very emotional and difficult process. The most important thing is to continue the respectful and loving relationship that you currently have.
    It can easily turn negative and often does from time to time, no matter how respectful you both want to be. Emotions run high no matter how amicable the separation or divorce is. There will be many ups and downs, some resentment will eventually show through on both your parts as you start to fear and want to protect yourselves, even if you are trying your best to be loving to each other.
    Remember that anything that you share in the house can eventually be replaced and is not worth fighting about. Remember that both of you will be hurting, as I said before that resentment shows through from time to time. And eventually each of you will separately want to protect yourselves and that may cause some problems but is completely normal. Remember all things can be replaced, but separating with dignity, love and respect will show your daughter that she is loved and never feel she has to choose between you two. It is inevitable that she will feel responsible for your separation, it is normal for her to feel that way unfortunately, even though it is not true. But showing her that each of you care about the well-being of her other parent is paramount. I suggest getting her some counseling, and some family counseling for the three of you as well. Counseling while ending a relationship, especially with kids, is extremely important, and allows all of you to end things in a meaningful way.

    If you are trying to save money, especially since you both agree with ending things, you may be able to come up with an agreement without much legal costs. Depending on where you live and what each of you need, you may only need to go to the court house and file with a written agreement that states that you agree to share all child expenses, share custody, state the times/days/schedule regarding each of your time with your daughter, and state an agreement about division of assets. If there is a large volume of assets and more complicated things involved, find a mediator that you both feel comfortable with and settle together. It would be much cheaper that way. Arguing and fighting about things ends up costing both parties and with what you are saying, mediation may be an easier and cheaper route for you two.

    Again, I am sorry to have read this as I have always found your posts to be very insightful with respect to relationships and had hoped that things were different for you and your wife. I was on this site previously with a different account and signed up today just to respond to your post because of the inspiration and support that you gave me months ago. I hope things continue down a decent path for you, your daughter, and your wife, no matter the end result. I wish you all the best.
    (Ms.Pants)
     
  3. AllanTheCowboy

    AllanTheCowboy Fapstronaut

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    I'm sensing a trend of the greatest growth and understanding perhaps coming from the greatest disaster.
     
  4. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for your kind words but especially for the insight and wisdom you have shared above. So many great suggestions for me to keep in mind! Those are exactly the kinds of things I was looking for and hoping to get from others on here. I am so humbled and honored that you would sign up today just to respond to me! OMG...It is sooooo nice to hear from you again and I'm glad that I could inspire and support you awhile back! :)
     
  5. I'm glad I could be helpful. Stay strong Ted.
     
  6. oreogirl

    oreogirl Fapstronaut

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    Oh ms. Pants, you have ment so much to so many of us ❤️
     
  7. Awe, thank you! I feel the same about so many of you here too! Hope you are doing well
     
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  8. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    I wonder if folks would comment on when they would stop wearing the wedding ring? I get that if the split was on bad terms that you'd be quicker to take off the ring right away. Or if one left upset and took off their ring and the other that stayed was holding out hope that they might leave the ring on. But, what if the split was amicable, friendly and agreed upon by both parties? That being said, there doesn't appear to be any hope or willingness for reconciliation. Things are going smoothly for us right now in terms of our necessary interactions, so I don't want to upset the apple cart by removing it (she still wears hers too), but I'm also going out and meeting people on casual dates. What do people think?
     
  9. AllanTheCowboy

    AllanTheCowboy Fapstronaut

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    Mine is never coming off.
     
  10. Since your split is mutual and things are going well, why not talk about it with her. You don't need to tell her whether you are meeting new people or not, but ask her what she thinks. It is a touchy subject for sure, and usually in a divorce, one initiates it and the other gets hurt by it. Better to talk first. I know it's easier not having a ring on because people notice that sort of thing and ask about your family, your spouse etc and it becomes awkward and you don't have to share your entire life history with people.
    How long have you two lived separately? I would say a couple of months apart in your situation would be a reasonable amount of time to take it off, but again talk to her. She probably is wondering the same thing
     
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  11. PostiveChange1974

    PostiveChange1974 Fapstronaut

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    I've been separated for a year, and in the process of divorce. At time of separation, there was no illusion of ever wanting to return. I've learned a lot this last year, it's been so very good for me.

    It depends on your goal, but if you believe you want a divorce, it's important to proceed with clarity and purpose. You need to commit to the process. I took my ring off immediately. And as a clue, most women don't want to date 'separated' men, or even recent divorcees. They are looking to make sure you're truly independent, and let go of the past. (Many divorces weren't prepared for the ending of the relationship, or even if they are, they mentally dwell in the area of 'maybe' just to avoid the changes they must make)

    As you commit to the process you need to realize that there are things that you will have to do, that aren't intentionally cruel, but will hurt your former partner. (Taking off the ring is one). putting away their pictures, making choices they wouldn't have previously agreed with, etc. There are just certain things you will have to do to establish your own life, and anything you do with that, will come with some strain on your former partners feelings. The reverse is true, she will have to do some things, and it will hurt you (not avoidable), but realize that it's just the circumstance, and not her being evil. It's important you still do these things even know the hurt it's causing. To be fully divorced, you have to find a way to function, without needing her approval, or despite her feelings. In fact, she has to be out of your head entirely, which often takes much longer than the legal process, and some might argue never fully happens)

    There are some different thoughts on the children. I personally don't believe in speaking ill of her in my children's presence. Even honest critic can allow bitterness to seep in. I believe when you expose your children to that, (even if it's honestly warranted), that they learn not to critique the one parent, but both, and it shakes a fundamental need in them to feel secure. Children have eyes open, they can see for themselves, and make up their own minds. (So never engage in 'trying to win'.) That being said, mentally prepare yourself for a day when they might actually ask questions. Be able to offer then confident answers (which is both honest admissions about yourself) and your partners point of view. Always tailor it to be age appropriate. (A bad example, "Mommy's a cheating whore", and good example "Your mother had some needs that I couldn't provide, and it was best for both our health if she was allowed to pursue them"). (The ideas vary on this a bit. If you are in a bad situation, and under attack, or your partners lifestyle is dangerous, acting that everything is ok is said to be harmful to the kids. In this case, the advice was to show that you are taking clear steps to deal with the conflict, as they will often adopt your methods of coping). If you are amicable, it will be important to come to consensus as to how to parent the children.

    You will loose friends over this. (I have) Some are more connected to your wife. Some have sensitivity to divorce as a concept.

    As someone mentioned about your martial assets, don't be hung up on items. Everything can be replaced. Think of it this way, the more vicious and contended the process of separation, the more time you need to recover after. This doesn't mean you have to role over, speak honestly for what you want, and try to reach a decent compromise. But don't be surprised if you partner has a weird emotional attachment to something that causes her to fall to pieces.

    Finally, since you mentioned dating... It's important that you never compare any new date, to your ex. (Mentally, and most definitely never verbally) They aren't the same person, motivations aren't the same, and you don't have the same history, so outcomes will be different. (Hopefully, you're not even the same.) When you start comparing, it means you aren't addressing how you feel about this new person, and instead using external standards of the past. It's a false comparison, and is dangerous, but cause you are then letting your ex occupy your mind while being with the new date. (If you have ever read anything about the dangers of using statements in arguments like 'You always...", this is the same. People don't always act one way or another, but when we have unresolved disappointments, we carry them into the current situation, which trivializes and not addressing what is happening now. This is signaled by the statement "You always....". Comparing you date to ex, allows unresolved problems to carry forward, and you could accidentally find that you are saying to this new person "You always....", when you don't know them that way. I try very hard not to ever do this, and it is such a challenge at times.
     
  12. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    Wow, there is so much great wisdom and advice packed into that post that I'm blown away. Thank you so much for that. Seriously, I can't tell you how much that means to me to get that kind of helpful and sound advice. Your third paragraph especially hit home for me as it seems particularly relevant to right now and what I'm dealing with. I feel this tension or struggle of not wanting to do anything to hurt her or upset the apple cart given that things are going well so far and are so civil and amicable. And yet I know your words to be true too. I do need to commit to the process and do things that will hurt her even though I'm not intentionally being cruel (such as the ring coming off). Thank you again for sharing some advice based on your own experiences and what you learned along the way. Blessings to you!
     
  13. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    First off, great suggestion as far as talking about it. So quick update on the ring thing. Here is my journal post from Friday regarding the ring.

    So...it's been off all weekend and I don't see myself putting it back on now either. Funny story? I was showering for my date on Saturday and I was running my hand down my leg to wash the soap off, the ring spun right off my finger and rolled down the bathtub and stopped over the drain. I literally laughed out loud. Was that a sign or what? I swear to you that has never ever happened to me. I've never had it spin off my finger like that and here it happens after thinking about and talking about my ring all week and as I'm getting ready for a date? Sign from the universe. ;)
     
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  14. Power of the Mind

    Power of the Mind Fapstronaut

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    How do you deal with the thoughts and reality that she is going to date and have sex with other men? I am going through separation and the hardest thing is coming to terms with the fact that another man will be sexing her and staying in the same house as my children. Man this fucking hurts so bad.
     
  15. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    It's interesting you bring that up. I have a good friend who is separated and struggles with those same thoughts. His wife did the leaving. Is that your case too? For me, my wife and I mutually agreed to separate and I think that makes a difference in terms of my mindset. I don't have an issue with the thought of her dating or having sex with other men. Sure, that is a bit of a weird thought. It feels foreign, but conceptually I'm ok with it. That might also have something to do with the fact that I just recently got back out there and started dating though.
     
  16. PostiveChange1974

    PostiveChange1974 Fapstronaut

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    Unfortunately, there is no magic recipe to make it 'ok'. You need to let the pain come.

    The only thing I learned to make it through.... is the idea of 'stay in the moment'. It's the idea that our problem solving brains are constantly trying to work through the issue to 'fix it'. We are simultaneous trying to control the past and the future, by worrying what we could have done, and what worrying overly about what might happen. (Or in this case, what she is doing). All those things we can't control. There is 'no solution' for our problem solving brain to arrive to. Not being able to control it scares us, because our idea of what normal is has been broken, and we are seeking comfort.

    I found that the only thing that got me through was a mental exercise. In 'staying in the moment', you address extreme grief by taking a walk. On that walk, you focus your mind on the senses immediately in your surrounding. What smells are there. What sounds. What do you see (little shadows, notice colors). The feeling of your foot steps. Your heartbeat. Notice everything. Its yanking your brain back into the moment, and forcing it to be aware. It doesn't solve for the grief, but it brought me back to where I could function for awhile longer. I would have to do this frequently through the day. (Let the tears come, you have no control over it anyway)

    'Staying in the moment', isn't also just a mental exercise on senses. It's also an important prioritization exercise. Again, when we are dealing with extreme pain, there is no solution. In these moments, 'do what you must only'. Shower, shave, eat, go to work. Do what has to be done in that moment, and address only that. Trying to worry about 'How am I going to do this tomorrow', or 'what will my kids think'.... all of these drain you when your mind is already overloaded with grief. So it's important to switch into survival mode, and function by 'do what you must only, when you must', and yanking your brain back from anything else.

    Ultimately, I had to seek some counseling. I went to a Cognitive Behavior Therapist. She helped me identify areas in my own life, and patterns of negative self talk. She couldn't solve those issues, but in meeting with her, it helped to sort through my priorities, and address what I want. Ultimately, when I learned to embrace that what has happened I didn't have control over, and I can't control now, brought me comfort. (I guess in my own way, it was the 'solution' my problem solving brain wanted).

    I feel for you. I turned to friends, family, and my children, and tried to go out and live, and allow them to embrace me. They also helped me get through the day, by nothing else than seeing no matter what is happening in my brain...life continues.

    I offer this. Divorce is something that is now who you are. It's part of you, and yes it does define you to some degree. But realize that doesn't stop you from building a good life (a happy life). You can't rush to that point. There will be no easy way. But it will come, just by stepping one day at a time. Ultimately, I found the freedom brought me more comfort and stability. (and yes, I'm even dating). But you shouldn't attempt any of that until you can let most of the grief and bitterness pass. (and you have no control what schedule that will take, but it will).
     
  17. oreogirl

    oreogirl Fapstronaut

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    Great words to live by in lots of areas of life. I have been dealing with the grief and loss of our relationship, that was demolished by PMO addiction. I tryed so hard to fix our relationship all those years, and it wasn't mine to fix. I think what you say will help me, for the past 5-7 years I have been in hold it all together mode, and the grief now is taking me down. I think your words speak to me, stop trying to control how you feel, live through it. Thank you.
     
  18. PostiveChange1974

    PostiveChange1974 Fapstronaut

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    (Ok, so hopefully, you won't feel this next bit is just a long bitter divorcee story. Some of it's advice, some of it is sharing my history. I share because perhaps my experience will help you identify when things might happen in your divorce, and it does have a happy(er) ending. It's also important for me to acknowledge before I start my story that I'm very flawed, I don't profess to being anything but flawed)

    First, You are better off than most. But every situation is different. Some couples have been backing away from the relationship long before the words are actually said. It does sound like you are one of those. They have dealt with the grief, disappointment, concept of independance as identity, and embraced the change it might bring. Just be careful, while you might be amicable, and ready for change, the idea of 'I'm alright, She's alright', may have left you blind to some triggers you both have, or the fact that there may be history that either of you isn't aware of. It's a raw nerve that can suddenly be exposed as unexpected anger, flash of insecurity, unreasonable disappointment, and crushing depression. (I don't know you or your wife, so it's possible it won't happen, just be vigilant for them).

    Additionally, while you shouldn't dwell in the past looking for answers or obsessed with that you did wrong, a little introspection about how you got here is helpful. In fact, you will need to be able to have that conversation in your dating life (not first date, never on first date), but you will have to have a way of explaining 'what happened' without feeling compulsion, bitterness, or disregard. (Some divorcees wear their story as a cloak of identity, and can't wait to recount the history in full graphic detail of victimization, and ongoing evil that it represents. Hopefully, you won't feel that is what I'm doing, as I'm hoping to show how change can occur. Also, upon meeting one of these people, I felt 'wow! I got off so easy.") Still, how you tell your answers, and the clarity, will tell others if you've moved on. It can be abbreviated, and not everyone needs to know all details. "We grew apart", can be an effective, but many women have far more regard for marriage will need more substantial answers.

    The circumstances of your divorce can also depend on your feeling about the moral and personal success aspects, the division of domestic responsibilities, and you own image of self worth. For these purposes, I'll share my story.

    I was lucky in that I personally didn't feel a loss for a romantic partner (that part of our life had long starved). I did however, never want to be a 'divorcee'. I dreamed of a second life, where perhaps she died before me, so I can be happy. However, there was a crushing tearful weak of 'it's ended'. A feeling of failure for me, and a sense of dread of taking on the title of 'divorcee'. There was also worry, that while I was self sufficient in feeding myself, washing my own clothes, etc.... She did our taxes, our finances, and was primary parent. (How was I going to take all that domestic responsibility, and still be me? (the kids reside with me now). Thankfully, I was already embracing changes, by getting healthy (for one year prior), and developing a social group (so the concept of active change was within my grasp). And domestic responsibilities are just one thing you do a day at a time. (I made a list and an calendar of things, which helped alleviate my immediate concerns, and reference my earlier post about 'do what you must'). Still, I was preoccupied by 'why', and felt a need to freely (and in laughingly abusive honesty) communicate her everything I may have been holding back in an attempt discover the root cause. (Unfortunately theses conversations mostly tapped bitterness and pain, and ultimately ended up in circular patterns with no answers, which ended with her having to escape by saying 'I've had enough/I can't take anymore'. While it provided some relief and emptied my obsessive thoughts, it also was confusing, because in communicating so openly and intensely while sharing that pain, I felt so much more connected with her at that moment). Additionally (maybe fundamentally), I had issues that while I was embracing change before this by getting fitter, I had limited dating experience and after 17 years of being committed, I doubted whether or not any woman would 'desire me', and questioned "When I would have sex again".

    (Thankfully I, because I was committed to change, change did come swiftly for me....but...)

    About 3 months into my separation, I learned that she had actively been cheating on me the entire relationship. It didn't come to me because I was investigating her, but instead dropped on me because someone thought I already knew. This is after I had spent 17 years devoted to her, committed to her, and feeling sexually starved (intimacy begrudgingly only every 6 weeks to 3 months), and for at least the last 10 years emotionally rejected/ignored. I had spent that time actively unhappy, but committed. I felt marriage is about loyalty, and meeting responsibilities, and ensuring stability for our children. She had explained that her dis-interest was a function of her biology, and later we discovered she had an un-diagnosed thyroid issue. I had spent a lot of time feeling guilty for my needs, and angry she wouldn't/couldn't address them, and embraced by my constant PMO use. Still I believed marriage is something you do once, and I had rationalized that love is more than sex (even if I didn't feel connected to her in a daily basis). I had thought, feeling connection and sexually satisfaction are just lust, and it's ok and even healthy sign of maturity if I didn't feel or expect that with her every day, every month, or every year. I spent a lot of time studying sexuality and couples dynamics, and was upset at what I thought was a horrible trick the media message that (once a week was normal for sex) or even more for the 'unicorn of female companionship that wants sex daily/more than once a week'.
    When I discovered her cheating, I felt destroyed/victimized/robbed/raped. She had tricked me. My struggle wasn't hers, despite every conversation up to that point. She had denied me the truth so that I couldn't make effective changes to embrace that, robbing me of happiness for more than a decade of my life, and I felt that she had raped me for my resources (my ability to continue providing financial support, because I was sole provider). I was crippled by this, and the word 'victim' was a lightening stroke of pain and dysfunction in my mind. I immediately (same day) turned to the assistance of a counselor and anti-depressants.

    (Before you feel to crushed by that....)
    In counseling, I learned that every day had contributed to my growth, humility, and capability to understand. I learned that my struggle wasn't stupid or in vain, that being committed to a relationship is a good pattern, and no matter how it ended, that I had been strong. I learned that I'm an empath (not phony ESP mind reader), but someone that intuitively connects with (what we think) is the emotions of the people around them, and it's not a weakness, but instead a kind of super power in a way but needs to be guarded. I was able to identify a pattern of manipulation that had occurred from my Ex. (While I don't believe it's was malicious, or clinical to any degree), Its now something I try to defend myself from going forward. I also learned to accept my contribution to the issue. (While I hold her actions in disregard), I've come to accept that I also contributed to this through not communicating effectively, and 'allowing' it to take place. (Allowing didn't mean I know about it, or that I can ever control another human beings actions, but I was complacent to a degree by not being more honest about my needs, and prioritizing myself). It was there I was also given the advice to embrace the present, and stop seeking to control the past. I also learned/was reminded that to achieve goals, I need to be able to ask myself "what do I want", and be able to come up with actionable steps to achieve it, and be willing to take those steps.
    (I have forgiven her (perhaps to quickly), but I still hold pain over her lack of fidelity and history of lies. It can be very hard to be talking with someone, and recall some event in your past, and suddenly become aware, that due to your partner, it may not actually been what you thought it was, or that it ever actually happen. However, I also was able to come to see her choices as a reflection of herself, that she had weakness and needs, which I was unable to fulfill (turns out no one partner could). That it isn't a reflection of my value as partner, but instead her own insecurity. I've also come to accept and while lies have left me without any ability to 'know' one way or another, fundamentally I had to accept bitterness or happiness. I have chose happiness, and decided despite her flaws not to question the validity of the love we did share, the history we had, her value as a parent, and not to attribute all of her actions to evil motivations to control my pay check) (This is because without any actual evidence, it's fundamentally left to how I want to remember myself.) (It also let me clarify the goal, that I didn't need her, and didn't want her, and that at no point in the future should I ever allow her to return in an romantic approach. Not that it was/will be a reality that she would try, but it can be important to acknowledge that boundary.)

    After years of feeling sad, lonely, depressed, or even 'nothing', with the anti-depressants, seeking understanding with the counselor, color and joy quickly washed into my life (I'm talking weeks). It was actually amazing what a difference it was. I don't want to diminish the issue or the struggle. I know that she is part of my history, and that my relationship with her, means that she is fundamentally imprinted in my being (and that it will never go away). What I have come to accept is that I don't have to be controlled by that. There were good parts, and it reflects my strength. That I have value, and chance to change when I'm not happy. It's only been a year, and the divorce is still ongoing, but taking steps to seek help, and let change into my life has left me feeling 'centered' about 95% of the time. (I still have days where I feel 'nothing', and there are days where a slight thing brings me low. But I don't feel that sadness, loneliness, or 'nothing' is normal). (I also don't pretend not to be in a rebound. No matter how you feel. Events after a relationship ends, is a rebound, and it's unhealthy to deny it. Its silly/obvious to those who hear the denial)

    (PS: being centered doesn't mean I don't have power based flights of fancy of winning the lottery immediately after being divorced (and lording it over her by rushing the kids of for a magical luxurious week trip to Disney land), or getting a super model girlfriend to make her jealous, or hoping her long term affairs dump her (or some other karmic event happens to even the score). However, I don't dwell or obsess with those thoughts. The are more mischievous flashes, that I feel it's healthy to accept, but not be motivated to ever try. I focus myself with the fact doesn't really matter 'what she does' now, and those are shallow and are allowing her to manipulate me without even being present. I also remind myself, "that is the mother of my children, harm to her is harm to them" (and that usually straightens my tune up right way).

    I don't know if that story helps you in any manner. I do feel that being able to recount the story (while still told via my perspective), and own my part of flaws is healthy. While there is pain (and why wouldn't there be), hopefully you didn't sense bitterness. Perhaps it will encourage you to look into your story, and find what holds pain, what your part was, and what changes you have and are making from that (just don't dwell there, or force the story down everyone's throat at every chance)

    In case you are wondering, all this has left me with the idea, that I would be open to marriage again the future. It's not something I'm seeking, as I don't need a 'wife' to be alive or happy. I don't need a domestic slave to function, as I can do all of that for myself (and intend to). In fact, there are attributes about my ex that I still find desirable, and would choose to pursue in future partners (not her, never her). It also allows me to approach dating without feeling the need to be too attached too soon, and more honest about my feelings and wants in a relationship. I'm open to love, and refuse to bring the pain and distrust of the past into the present. (But my eyes will be open, and I will be more confident in speaking my concerns, and knowing my limits for acceptable behavior)
     
  19. Ted Martin

    Ted Martin Fapstronaut

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    Wow! Thanks so much for being vulnerable enough to share your story. There was so many elements in that I connected with and I really appreciate your putting that out. I wish you continued growth and healing as you journey.
     
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  20. PostiveChange1974

    PostiveChange1974 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you as well. I hope your path is one to peace and happiness as well.

    While my changes are my own, more than anything I guess I should say I survived through my friends. They have become my support network. If I feel overwhelmed or alone, I connect with them, instead of dwelling on 'what she's done to me'. If you don't have this kind of strong group, many areas have local divorce recovery groups. They aren't always for just learning to emotionally cope, they can provide companionship and helping hands for your day to day life if you need it.
     
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