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When is it a mortal sin? (Your opinion)

For Fapstronauts of the Catholic Christian Faith

  1. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    According to St. John Vianney and St. Augustine here... Me. Eko... you are playing the devil's side... goodnight. I'll pray for you.
     
  2. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    At the beginning of the conversation you gave some links:
    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/vice/impurity.htm
    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/on-the-abuse-of-divine-mercy
    http://biblereasons.com/narrow-path/


    One of them is so called churchmilitant,
    After some search I found that this:

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-church-militant-or-the-church-belligerent

    Tell me honestly: Do you recognise the pope Francis and Vatican Council II or are you an adherent of Marcel Lefebre or anything?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  3. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    You don't know the teaching of JP2 and you don't know Polish priests considered to be traditional and you don't know Polish Catholicism.
    All I heard about addictions and why and under what conditions you can receive Holy Communion is said to me by Polish priests during Sacrament of Confession.

    The truth is some priests rather the older ones said I should confess PMO sins every time before Holy Communion but most confessors ( rather younger) said roughly the same I'm posting on this thread.
     
  4. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    He says the truth but under some conditions mentioned in the Cathechism it is not a mortal one. This is an official teaching of the Church, not mine.
     
  5. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    According to the standards yes and I'm alive to the fact that if I some day act out I can come back to my addiction.
    But what I have been feeling and experiencing for over 2 years is my free will again. I don't feel forced by my desires to do ,,it,
    That's why if I act out I'll do it with my full consent of will and I will have to go to Confession. In my case, you're right only because I have full free will to do it or not but the vast majority of addicts are not in my situation.

    There are two points of view in today's Catholic Church on reception of Holy Communion by various addicts. If you have a confessor who is a spiritual director of yours then do what he says because he knows your situation and your abilities better.
    If anyone has doubts they should ask simply a priest. They have studied theology and have their advisors on Sacrament of Penance.
    I had doubts after reading some sorts of contradictory advice regarding this topic and asked many priests. The majority of them said if addicted there is no grave sin but only under the condition, you honestly try to fight it and don't treat the possibility as an excuse to wallow in the sin.
    Why do we have our conscience?
    I said to myself - if the Church cannot get me a definite answer - some priests say A and another priests say B then my conscience will decide in this matter.
    If I did wrong why I have been free for over 3 years?
    I must have wallowed in porn and masturbation justifying myself that I am an addict. The results /fruits/ say something contradictory.

    I don't say that every man who says that you should go to Confession every time you sin PMO before Communion, is not right. Everyone has their conscience, pray, read the Bible, read the voice of Church and decide by yourself.

    Michael, if I am on this thread and forum to persuade another to watch porn and masturbate without consequences and bad conscience then why I have gotten rid of this addiction?
    According to your words, I could wallow in PMO pleasures and receive Communion until my dying day.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
    hopeful henry likes this.
  6. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    Church millitant has only condemned and has outright videos against Matcel Legebre and SSPX. If you did more research you'd no that Church millitant is very against that schism. The site makes very clear that it accelts the 2nd Vatican council, however, there are abuses of it. Their are things done that were no where in the words if the council. That church millitant article is literally quotes from St. john vianney.
     
  7. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Do you recognise the Pope Francis and his teaching?
     
  8. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    Even Stalin got the trains to run on time... kudos on your nofap streak... does not mean you are automatically perfectly orthodox or orthoprax...
    Like I will say again. You are basically in a room full of suicidals quoting the CCC on the part that if they kill themselves they'll go to heaven anyway... could you every say in good conscious that that is the most wise thing to post?
    Again, I do not think a member on this thread lacks the capacity to beat this habbit, but you are justifying it...
     
  9. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    I recognize Pope Francis. What is "his teaching"?
     
  10. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    He said in the exhortation Amoris Laetitia that the divorced living in new relationships could under some conditions receive Holy Communion.
     
  11. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    The CCC is very clear about mortal sin and that if you die in it you go to hell. Any heresy apart from that universal and long held doctirnal belief would be heresy and would render him an anti-pope... God does not "change". Many horrible popes in the past. Some with kids, some were murders. No where in Amoris Laetita does it say that. That would mock the sacrament if marriage (sacrilige) and mock communion (sacrilige). In fact, 4 cardinals formed a dubia and asked him to clarify that exact notion which he has refused to do. Some bishops and bishop councils of somebstates allow it and some do not. He is dividing the church without a doubt and being very unclear. (On purpose) He could never make a statement like that flat out ex cathedra. That would mean the church that can turn bread into God has been wrong for 2000 years and that would also mock Jesus Himself when He said "what I join together no man should seperate".
     
  12. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Some months ago the Catholic Church in Malta prepared and stated on the request of the Pope Francis what the conditions are. They are two - 1. Consultation with a priest who will examine the individual situation and instruct the divorced.
    2. The voice of conscience of the divorced which will be deciding if they decide to receive Holy Communion or not.

    So I'll cite you soon some lines from Amoris Laetita and give you a link. You don't know your Church and Her official teaching.
     
  13. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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  14. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    And you are a heretic and push sacrilige. You are wrong buddy. Im done arguing with you. Keep telling everyone the church changed and to mock the sacraments. I will pray for you
     
  15. 3MichaelJMJ

    3MichaelJMJ Fapstronaut

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    http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael...ill-perceive-smell-smoke-satan-synod-document
    You are that smoke...
    Jesus Himself and The Church of God did not forbid divorce and call it a mortal sin and excommunicate king Henry VIII over divirce and cause the greatest schism of all time just so Pope Instagram could change it over night. Look up grounds for an anti-pope. Because if he did do that, with time, he will be seen as one. That is heresy and sacrilige.
     
  16. sparkywantsnoPMO

    sparkywantsnoPMO NoFap Moderator & Yeoman

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    A few points.

    Heretic has a very specific definition. It may not be beneficial to call someone a heretic if it cannot be verified all those criteria are met.

    There is a difference between a sin being grave and mortal. There was some scrambling of those two terms as the discussion evolved. A mortal sin was defined on page 1.

    Irregardless of the argument, I think we can all agree that the Sacrament of Reconciliation can be a great tool in humbling ourselves, acknowledging our Sins, and receiving grace. It can be hard to have to confess the same sin to the same priest, but that in itself can help drive recovery. In the wrong context, it can discourage people from going to confession, or even to mass. This is why pastoral care can be of great benefit. Additionally, a person can (and it is often beneficial to do so) confession venial sins.
     
  17. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Some excerpts from exhortation Amoris Laetitia, a teaching ex-cathedra
    Many of these points below fit the topic we are talking about - grave or only venial PMO sin when addicted.

    Source: https://w2.vatican.va/content/dam/f...sortazione-ap_20160319_amoris-laetitia_en.pdf

    Part 1

    ,,
    The discernment of “irregular” situations

    296.

    … The way of the Church is not to condemn anyone for ever; it is to pour out the balm of God’s mercy on all those who ask for it with a sincere heart… For true charity is always unmerited, unconditional and gratuitous”.326 Consequently, there is a need “to avoid judgements which do not take into account the complexity of various situations” and “to be attentive, by necessity, to how people experience distress because of their condition”

    297.

    ….No one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel! Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone, in whatever situation they find themselves….

    298.

    The divorced who have entered a new union, for example, can find themselves in a variety of situations, which should not be pigeonholed or fit into overly rigid classifications leaving no room for a suitable personal and pastoral discernment. One thing is a second union consolidated over time, with new children, proven fidelity, generous self giving, Christian commitment, a consciousness of its irregularity and of the great difficulty of going back without feeling in conscience that one would fall into new sins.

    …. There are also the cases of those who made every effort to save their first marriage and were unjustly abandoned, or of “those who have entered into a second union for the sake of the children’s upbringing, and are sometimes subjectively certain in conscience that their previous and irreparably broken marriage had never been valid” Another thing is a new union arising from a recent divorce, with all the suffering and confusion which this entails for children and entire families, or the case of someone who has consistently failed in his obligations to the family…

    The Synod Fathers stated that the discernment of pastors must always take place “by adequately distinguishing”,331 with an approach which “carefully discerns situations”.332 We know that no “easy recipes” exist.33

    300

    ….What is possible is simply a renewed encouragement to undertake a responsible personal and pastoral discernment of particular cases, one which would recognize that, since “the degree of responsibility is not equal in all cases” What is possible is simply a renewed encouragement to undertake a responsible personal and pastoral discernment of particular cases, one which would recognize that, since “the degree of responsibility is not equal in all cases”,335 the consequences or effects of a rule need not necessarily always be the same.336

    Note 336

    336 This is also the case with regard to sacramental discipline, since discernment can recognize that in a particular situation no grave fault exists


    ……. Useful in this process is an examination of conscience through moments of reflection and repentance. The divorced and remarried should ask themselves: how did they act towards their children when the conjugal union entered into crisis; whether or not they made attempts at reconciliation; what has become of the abandoned party; what consequences the new relationship has on the rest of the family and the community of the faithful; and what example is being set for young people who are preparing for marriage.
     
  18. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Part 2

    ,,
    Mitigating factors in pastoral discernment

    301

    For an adequate understanding of the possibility and need of special discernment in certain “irregular” situations, one thing must always be taken into account, lest anyone think that the demands of the Gospel are in any way being compromised. The Church possesses a solid body of reflection concerning mitigating factors and situations.

    Hence it is can no longer simply be said that all those in any “irregular” situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may know full well the rule, yet have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values”,339 or be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin.

    As the Synod Fathers put it, “factors may exist which limit the ability to make a decision”.340 Saint Thomas Aquinas himself recognized that someone may possess grace and charity, yet not be able to exercise any one of the virtues well;……

    302

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly mentions these factors: “imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors”.343

    In another paragraph, the Catechism refers once again to circumstances which mitigate moral responsibility, and mentions at length “affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability”.344 For this reason, a negative judgment about an objective situation does not imply a judgment about the imputability or culpability of the person ….

    Note 344

    John Paul II, in his critique of the category of “fundamental option”, recognized that “doubtless there can occur situations which are very complex and obscure from a psychological viewpoint, and which have an influence on the sinner’s subjective culpability” (Apostolic Exhortation Reconciliatio et Paenitentia [2 December 1984],

    …… involved.345 On the basis of these convictions, I consider very fitting what many Synod Fathers wanted to affirm: “Under certain circumstances people find it very difficult to act differently. Therefore, while upholding a general rule, it is necessary to recognize that responsibility with respect to certain actions or decisions is not the same in all cases. Pastoral discernment, while taking into account a person’s properly formed conscience, must take responsibility for these situations. Even the consequences of actions taken are not necessarily the same in all cases”.


    303.

    Recognizing the influence of such concrete factors, we can add that individual conscience needs to be better incorporated into the Church’s praxis in certain situations which do not objectively embody our understanding of marriage…….Yet conscience can do more than recognize that a given situation does not correspond objectively to the overall demands of the Gospel…..
     
  19. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Part 3
    ,,
    304.

    …..I earnestly ask that we always recall a teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas and learn to incorporate it in our pastoral discernment: “Although there is necessity in the general principles, the more we descend to matters of detail, the more frequently we encounter defects… In matters of action, truth or practical rectitude is not the same for all, as to matters of detail, but only as to the general principles; and where there is the same rectitude in matters of detail, it is not equally known to all…

    The principle will be found to fail, according as we descend further into detail” It is true that general rules set forth a good which can never be disregarded or neglected, but in their formulation they cannot provide absolutely for All particular situations. At the same time, it must be said that, precisely for that reason, what is part of a practical discernment in particular circumstances cannot be elevated to the level of a rule. That would not only lead to an intolerable casuistry, but would endanger the very values which must be preserved with special care.

    305.

    For this reason, a pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in “irregular” situations, as if they were stones to throw at people’s lives. This would bespeak the closed heart of one used to hiding behind the Church’s teachings, “sitting on the chair of Moses and judging at times with superiority and superficiality difficult cases and wounded families” Along these same lines, the International Theological Commission has noted that “natural law could not be presented as an already established set of rules that impose themselves a priori on the moral subject;

    rather, it is a source of objective inspiration for the deeply personal process of making decisions”.350 Because of forms of conditioning and mitigating factors, it is possible that in an objective situation of sin – which may not be subjectively culpable, or fully such – a person can be living in God’s grace, can love and can also grow in the life of grace and charity, while receiving the Church’s help to this end.351

    Discernment must help to find possible ways of responding to God and growing in the midst of limits. By thinking that everything is black and white, we sometimes close off the way of grace and of growth, and discourage paths of sanctification which give glory to God. Let us remember that “a small step, in the midst of great human limitations, can be more pleasing to God than a life which appears outwardly in order, but moves through the day without confronting great difficulties”.352 The practical pastoral care of ministers and of communities must not fail to embrace this reality.


    Note 351

    351 In certain cases, this can include the help of the sacraments. Hence, “I want to remind priests that the confessional must not be a torture chamber, but rather an encounter with the Lord’s mercy” (Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium [24 November 2013], 44: AAS 105 [2013], 1038). I would also point out that the Eucharist “is not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak”
     
  20. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Part 4 - the last
    ,,
    308.

    At the same time, from our awareness of the weight of mitigating circumstances – psychological, historical and even biological – it follows that “without detracting from the evangelical ideal, there is a need to accompany with mercy and patience the eventual stages of personal growth as these progressively appear”, making room for “the Lord’s mercy, which spurs us on to do our best”.355 I understand those who prefer a more rigorous pastoral care which leaves no room for confusion.

    But I sincerely believe that Jesus wants a Church attentive to the goodness which the Holy Spirit sows in the midst of human weakness, a Mother who, while clearly expressing her objective teaching, “always does what good she can, even if in the process, Her shoes get soiled by the mud of the street”.356 The Church’s pastors, in proposing to the faithful the full ideal of the Gospel and the Church’s teaching, must also help them to treat the weak with compassion, avoiding aggravation or unduly harsh or hasty judgements.

    The Gospel itself tells us not to judge or condemn (cf. Mt 7:1; Lk 6:37). Jesus “expects us to stop looking for those personal or communal niches which shelter us from the maelstrom of human misfortune, and instead to enter into the reality of other people’s lives and to know the power of tenderness. Whenever we do so, our lives become wonderfully complicated”.3


    309.

    It is providential that these reflections take place in the context of a Holy Year devoted to mercy, because also in the variety of situations affecting families “the Church is commissioned to proclaim the mercy of God, the beating heart of the Gospel, which in its own way must penetrate the mind and heart of every person….


    311.

    …..special care should always be shown to emphasize and encourage the highest and most central values of the Gospel,363 particularly the primacy of charity as a response to the completely gratuitous offer of God’s love. At times we find it hard to make room for God’s unconditional love in our pastoral activity.364

    Note 364

    Perhaps out of a certain scrupulosity, concealed beneath a zeal for fidelity to the truth, some priests demand of penitents a purpose of amendment so lacking in nuance that it causes mercy to be obscured by the pursuit of a supposedly pure justice. For this reason, it is helpful to recall the teaching of Saint John Paul II, who stated that the possibility of a new fall “should not prejudice the authenticity of the resolution”

    …… We put so many conditions on mercy that we empty it of its concrete meaning and real significance. That is the worst way of watering down the Gospel. It is true, for example, that mercy does not exclude justice and truth, but first and foremost we have to say that mercy is the fullness of justice and the most radiant manifestation of God’s truth. For this reason, we should always consider “inadequate any theological conception which in the end puts in doubt the omnipotence of God and, especially, his mercy”.


    312.

    This offers us a framework and a setting which help us avoid a cold bureaucratic morality in dealing with more sensitive issues. Instead, it sets us in the context of a pastoral discernment filled with merciful love, which is ever ready to understand, forgive, accompany, hope, and above all integrate. That is the mindset which should prevail in the Church and lead us to “open our hearts to those living on the outermost fringes of society”.366 I encourage the faithful who find themselves in complicated situations to speak confidently with their pastors or with other lay people whose lives are committed to the Lord. …….
     

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