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Catch 22 situation for me

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by AtomicTango, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    So today I relapsed and masturbated 4 times, moving quickly from vanilla porn to extreme every time I did it. After I was done and I was yet again kicking myself for relapsing, I came to the realisation that what I seriously need is a girlfriend to finally and properly clear my mind of these urges that I know arent the real me. I dont want to seem like I'm placing all my hopes on this, but honestly at this stage I think simply abstaining isnt working, the whole time I'm still a virgin me falling back into PMO is inevitable.

    Heres the thing though; the whole time my mind is addled from PMO I dont feel confident enough to even attempt anything with anyone, not to mention even without PMO I'm naturally very shy and introverted (common excuse I know but its true), putting me in a catch 22 situation where I feel like a girlfriend I can be physically and emotionally intimate with will aid in my recovery, but at the same time I dont feel like thats attainable until after the recovery.

    I dont know, maybe I'm just talking nonsense, you guys will have to tell me if anything I just said makes any sense at all.
     
  2. WuTangFinancial

    WuTangFinancial Fapstronaut

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    If you have been involved with PMO for a long time it will only add to your shyness and introverted tendencies. Regardless if you are naturally that way or not, it can only hurt you further by continuing with PMO. Furthermore, a relationship does not magically solve all of your problems. What many of us are saying when we ask for a girlfriend/boyfriend is that our life is lacking in love and support. We are aching for someone to be tactile with, whether that be something as simple as a hug or holding someone's hand. Yet our PMO habits are injected into that desire and the translation gets skewed. It becomes, "If I find someone who is willing to have sex with me, I will be cured," which is untrue because our drive is selfish. Our search for someone is based on OUR needs not a mutual interaction. However, as you mentioned, there is a fear and lack of interest, which is perpetuated by PMO. Rebooting is the best place to start. Fear drives us to relapse because we feel that nothing will change, which is also untrue. This process takes discipline but we also need support and NoFap is exactly that. This community has much to offer and we are here for each other for every step. We all have the capacity to overcome this demon and create better lives for ourselves and others. Stay strong friend.
     
    Matrix Intel and Nuth like this.
  3. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Thank you, this is what I needed to hear, and of course everything you said is correct. It's just so frustrating when I can go a fairly long time without even thinking about relapsing and then suddenly one bad day ruins it all. I end up rationalising my habit only to feel awful once I've done it, and then the negativity spiral begins. It's literally like PMO makes me a different person, a person I hate.

    Regardless thanks for the support, these past few days have been hard and the kind words are appreciated.
     
  4. WuTangFinancial

    WuTangFinancial Fapstronaut

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    We all share in those moments of weakness, it is part of being a human. Rationalizing is what we do best because we are self-aware and we want to believe our actions are just or reasonable. The true test of character is being able to say to ourselves, "I have made made mistakes or made poor judgments and that's okay." Even those who commit atrocities can change their behavior; from the outside it is hard to see but if you believe that all humans share in common desires then anyone can grow and change.

    And PMO DOES make you a different person! It literally changes how our brain functions and after years of use we forget who we really are. Our mind becomes foreign to us because we keep trying to run away from the things that make us feel pain or sadness because we are not using healthy methods to express that. Think of your brain as a plant: we know that plants need water, nutrients and sunlight to flourish. On the other hand, if you left a plant in darkness with no nutrients and little water, it would cease to grow. Our brains are the results of what we feed it.

    Glad I can help a brother out, you can do this friend!
     
  5. Nuth

    Nuth Fapstronaut

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    Also, there are other ways of geting the dopamine that your brain might crave. One way of geting it its by aplying your extra time with your one projects (since you won't be porn binging anymore). You can also start doing exercises. Those will help with endorphine and dopamine.
    And, for the gand finale, the prospect of meeting someone in person opens a new world of possibilitys to get to know new people. You won't marry and live happly ever after with any of them, but binding with people and stabilishing a suport network will grant you serotonin, with grealty diminish your need for dopamine (wich, if Im not mistaken, it's the hormone that's liberated after a PMO).

    Important: I'm a law graduate, so everything I said it's based on research. But please don't take it for granted. I'm no expert.
     
    WuTangFinancial likes this.
  6. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Thank you, this is good advice. My ultimate goal with NoFap is to become more social and be less introverted, not just necessarily around women but people in general. I don't think I'm there yet but I'm making progress.
     
    Nuth likes this.
  7. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Thank you for the anecdote and kind words, I'll be sure to keep what you've said in mind.
     
  8. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

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    Can I let you in on a brutal secret? Sex isn't going to solve your problem.
    And sex won't solve your problem because porn didn't solve your problem.
    So you could try and fill it with whatever addiction - sex, porn, cards, alcohol, gaming, tv, chips - but they still won't solve your problem.
    So here are a few questions to mull over:
    What drove you to porn? What purposes did porn serve you?
    If one bad day can throw you off (as it can for me, too), what else is going on in your life?
    And if your goal is to be more social (a great objective!), what is getting in your way? What other methods, beyond NoFap, can help you reach that goal? If a friend asked you about achieving that goal, what advice would you give?
     
    GG2002 likes this.
  9. WuTangFinancial

    WuTangFinancial Fapstronaut

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    Some great points here, especially the questions you could ask yourself. Understanding what drove to this in the first place may help relieve some issues. If you're like me then maybe you were introduced to it through someone else but we continued to use it for other reasons. It is escapism, an easy solution to stress or feelings of being overwhelmed. Ironically, PMO only makes it worse in the long run and yet we keep running to it. It's like walking towards the edge of a cliff and expecting not to fall if you step to far.
     
  10. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    I'll be honest, when I wrote this post I was in my rationalisation stage and was trying to justify relapsing, but nonetheless I'll try to answer what you wrote.

    I was led to watching porn in the same way most people are, I heard about its existence, didnt realise the negative effects it could have, and watched the fuck out of it, slowly moving from one genre to the next without realising how much it was messing me up. Once I realised how bad it was I continued to watch it because it was a release for sexual frustration, not fully understanding that my sexual frustration was being caused by porn. I say porn and not masturbation because honestly, I've never had issues when I just masturbate without it, I dont suffer from PIED or anything like that, all my issues are porn related. I feel like porn has created a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde situation where one part of me craves emotional intimacy, closeness, and so on, and the other part of me is a pervert who fantasises about things that I know I wouldnt like at all IRL. I've made peace with the fact that I probably genuinely am a bit kinkier than most, dont have a problem with that, but porn makes me push it to a stupid level.

    What causes me to relapse again is the rationalisation, it doesnt need to be a bad day for it to happen, it just needs to be a situation where I say "fuck it" and relapse, then try to justify doing so with some stupid nonsensical reasoning. The only time I relapsed due to stress or anything like that was when I broke my 75 day streak, and that whole story would take way too long to explain and honestly isnt really relevant to where I am now.

    Regarding the whole social thing, around men and women, this stems from a disconnect between my own perception and reality that I seriously struggle with overcoming that goes beyond just how social I am. I already have a lot of friends, already spend a lot of time with them, I'm not the antisocial hermit I perceive myself to be, but this perception stems from a period of my childhood (from about the age of 12-16) where I was in high school and was always around people who I could never truly be myself around, because if I was I would be made fun of, leading me to wearing a mask that always hides my true personality and feelings on almost everything. You could say I have an inferiority complex, because I've literally had multiple people point out to me that women check me out when I'm out in public and I'm incapable of seeing it as anything more than a joke/veiled insult. This complex is the main thing I need to squash, I wont be able to become the confident and outgoing better version of myself until I do.
     
  11. Nuth

    Nuth Fapstronaut

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    About your suposed inferiority complex (just saying like that becouse it's grounded on your point of view, not being necessarily true or false), perhaps psychological therapy could do you some good?

    I share your point of view about using masks and being afraid social judgment. Actually, it's a modern issue for men, since toxic masculinty started to be criticized. There's a documentary on netflix called "The Mask You Live In" that has some interesting point of view about it. Most of the media that I follow about it it's in portuguese, but if that topic catches your interest, there's always some good posts in sites like everydayfeminism.com.

    The thing is, trying to overcome this selfbuilt barriers can take some time and assistance. Thats why the therapy idea. To be honest, I would do it myself if I had de money.

    About trying to find out the source that drives the PMO behaviour, it's something that I'll start thinking myself. It helped with my alcohol problem and now a days I can stay more than a week without a drink (still working progress, but fuck it, it's something lol).

    Understanding driving behavior might help avoiding triggers and finding new ways to deal with unhealthy emotions, such as lonelyness, stress or hatred.

    One tought about your relapsing: maybe rationalisation isn't the key to unsolve this. Emotions are tricky to understand, specially for us men (due to our social construction and lack of incentive to explore them). The way you said it, sounded like you relapsed and then rationalised. So, the rationalisation it's a form of explanation, but not the cause. My phylosobar (bar phylosophy) question your life's goals and the way you deal with them. Perhaps the ocasional lack of trust in yourself may cause the "fuck it" reaction. Like "nothing it's going to change anyway" tought.

    My whriting skills are far below avarage, so I apologise in advance for any ambiguity in my post.
     
  12. Nuth

    Nuth Fapstronaut

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    By the way: I'm a fan of Dune. Couldn't help to recognize the Bene Gesserit litany agaisnt fear. Cool.
     
  13. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Therapy is something I also would consider if I could afford it, but its not feasible at the minute so I havent really thought about it. Regarding the rationalisation you perhaps have a point, its always something I do afterwards to justify the poor decision making, but what causes the relapse is more often than not just urges getting on top of me and me deciding "Nah cant be bothered putting up with this, just going to relapse and get it over with", rather than some deeper reason. Not saying there isnt a deeper reason, just that I cant think of what the reason could be beyond whats already been suggested.
     
    Nuth likes this.
  14. Infern0

    Infern0 Fapstronaut

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    Having a FWB and literal sex on tap didn't stop me relapsing.

    We PMO to escape from our issues. If we dont SOLVE those issues, we can't just transplant our addiction onto some poor girl that we just use as a sex object to numb ourselves from our issues.
     
    WuTangFinancial likes this.
  15. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Yes this is exactly what I'm thinking as a SO. I can see how having a partner may motivate you more to stop but if you are not fully cured of pmo chances are high it will only make the pmo worse. A common misconception is that pmo is about sex when it's not. It's a coping mechanism developed to deal with uncomfortable feelings. Once you remove it you have very raw emotions that can cause you to turn into an emotional basketcase. Dating these days is brutal and involves a lot of rejection. I read that the poster is already insecure so bring pmo free in a crappy dating world is a recipie for disaster. Also If pmo causes you performance issues in bed that may lead to relapse. Finally most women are not interested in dating a pmo addict active in his addiction. If you can't quit you likely will end up in a spiral of lies creating a whole lot more pain for yourself and bringing an innocent clueless partner along for the ride. When you are in a relationship you have someone else's feelings to consider which if you can barely care for your own is difficult. Read around on here about people trying to do it. And we a SO who used me as a replacement for pmo I can assure you we can tell and the sex is not good. The best thing you can do is get yourself healthy first then get out and date.
     
    The Wrestler likes this.

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