1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

The Practical [as Opposed to the Ideological] Benefit of Religion

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Buzz Lightyear, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    The number one reason why many relapse is because of the felt crushing banality of existence. Time weighs heavy on us, it is all so meaningless, and to escape this uncomfortable feeling/ thought we look for oblivion in pornography [the same dynamic often applies to alcohol and drug use]. It is arguably a form of suicide insofar as we want to obliterate our conscious/ rational self.

    Now science can in no way help here for it is about 'facts' and not 'values'. It can not help us in our existential 'first person' feelings, which center on meaning.

    What tries to help are the humanities such as literature, friendship, art and poetry etc. And no doubt they can help as they were, in cultural and historical terms, our 'half-way' house as society was secularized. But when we turn to religion proper, we have full-on dramatic meaning writ large. If you are once again 're-enchanted', and walk out into the world each day with the consciousness of life being a wondrous mystery... and you, a spiritual being, are to walk lightly on this earth.... what a difference it may make!

    Herein lies a pragmatic, or psychological, argument for belief... besides all the ideological ones which attempt to prove its truth.

    Also, consider that the conscious rational self now has further resources to subordinate the irrational self and its base desires.... for the conscious moral/ rational self is now subordinated to a higher intelligible reality... beyond the mere fragile ego. The Great Chain of Being principle.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    Deleted Account likes this.
  2. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    And further, if we are looking to the practical benefit of religion, we think again about those other transcendental ideals that once kept Truth company. And then the concerns of Goodness, Unity, and Beauty also come to motivate us to live a better life. And somehow this modern obsession with self-manufactured truths becomes less significant, and we come to counter-balance our so-called certainties with a healthier and more desirable view of our lives.

    What is true religion if it is not the collective art of our humanity.
     
  3. How often do you go to church?
     
  4. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    I shall make a pilgrimage to Rome one day.
     
  5. That's not really answering the question.
     
  6. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Well, I am in a foreign country on the continent of Asia at the moment, and so it makes it difficult for me to attend a Catholic cathedral. When I get back home, I shall recommence all religious observances immediately. I trust this is to your satisfaction.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  7. Why do you keep referring to art?
     
  8. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    I guess for the reason that many keep referring to science. It is the paradigm within which my language makes sense. One person will see one way of knowing/ being as valuable and prestigious, and another person will see another way as being so. Is this relativist? No, not if there is a hierarchy involved.

    I think thinking itself is an art. When we understand it this way the nature of words changes. They are no longer to be pinned down in some scientific or ideological exercise. Nope, they are just like notes of a currency that have a certain value at a certain time and place due to their monetary value. But monetary value, the meaning of words, changes with different currencies. Think of a currency as a particular paradigm, a language game, a theory, or a body of science.

    Scientific ideology is the attempt to create one single artificial currency [interpretation] and then identify that with money itself [meaning/ truth]. It wants to be money's sole representative.

    Notice the use of figurative language and an extended metaphor. When we want to get at meaning, this is the way we use language. We see through a glass darkly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  9. That's why scientism is the new religion of our time and also rationality and reasoning. Why must everything be explained by reasoning? Why do scientists reject miracles for example and ironically use irrational odds to explain them?
     
    Buzz Lightyear likes this.
  10. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Ah, but the scientist is still a person. At the end of the day, he has to go home, and sit in his armchair in front of the fire, and wonder what his own life is all about.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  11. thatoneguy123

    thatoneguy123 Fapstronaut

    651
    533
    93
    Imagine if you were born Ina dessert and the people around you also lived in desserts. Would you still look for a purpose or religion? Probably not. You would be absolutely clueless on how you came to exist and the meaning you would just be confused and not bother trying to answer these mind fucks of questions. Even if your beliefs aren't religious and outside of all boxes they are still inspired on some level by something that already exists. Spirituality you Heard from someone else. Imagine your Ina dessert with no technology. It would just be pure nothingness Pure conscisouness.there are flaws
    Not only with animals but also with even the clouds. Water evaporates but if that water has chemicals in it the chemicals also evaporate and then it rains toxic rain that kills plants and poisons environment. I'm almost sure God is just a force of energy not an actual intelligence idk
     
  12. True, life without God is meaningless. Do you believe in miracles?
     
  13. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Well, some of the most mystical religious thought came out of the deserts. And there were whole sects of monks who retreated into the desert early on in the history of the church....

    But say you were removed from society and in some state of nature like that. I'd say you'd have more, not less, of these kinds of philosophical thoughts about existence because you'd have more time and freedom to think them. You wouldn't be so busy commuting here and there... and even whilst commuting with nothing to do, you'd have your smart phone ever present to distract your thoughts....

    Nope, the desert dweller will most likely have quite a religious outlook on life. Look how quickly Islam spread through the desert lands.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  14. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Stylite

    A screaming wind
    Across the waste
    Wakes me from
    My fitful sleep.

    A Stylite am I,
    With elements I vie,
    My vigilance to keep
    On a column high.

    Nigh on two score years
    With the desert beasts
    That prowl beneath,
    And odd souls for prayer,
    And myself to mortify.

    I rise with the heavened stars
    That track the concaved black
    Which wraps this orb...
    But for the punctured points
    Through which light pours.

    The wind dies down,
    And down I lie.
    With the moon I float,
    And in the infinite drown.
     
  15. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Sure, why not. Free will itself is a miracle from a naturalistic perspective. I believe in my own free will, that I am myself a supernatural miracle... so why wouldn't I believe in divine miracles??
     
  16. thatoneguy123

    thatoneguy123 Fapstronaut

    651
    533
    93
    I know but generally speaking it you were born alone and lived alone you would just be like a clueless child.kids are curious about everything and ask many questions. Kids are still clean and pure. I think that's our natural state, all this good and bad dark and light etc is just stuff we heard from someone else.
     
  17. I think the fact that God specifically chooses us to be alive is in itself a miracle. Why do you consider free will a miracle?
     
  18. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Well, it helps to think of religion primarily in terms of meaning not morality. I think this shift reflects the unfortunate turn religion took in our culture with Puritanism.

    When we think in terms of meaning, we ask what kind of life we should live. What is the good and excellent life etc. As moral beings we also ask ourselves what is right and wrong.... but this should not primarily be repressive but quite the opposite... that we can develop and realize our true nature.
     
  19. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Well it is 'miraculous' within the context of the world supposedly being a naturalistic machine. The reality we all know, in the first person, is that if this world is a natural machine than I am super-natural; I can choose to go out or stay home, to develop myself or regress, to be critical about what I believe or just follow the masses. Notice that all deterministic thought is mass thought and dehumanizing... it wants people to just remain like cogs in a machine. It is itself 'bad faith', people want to absolve themselves from taking responsibility for their own existence. Freedom is much desired in the abstract, but most people actually fear the concrete reality of it.

    First person experience always trumps third person theories. If it doesn't, you have been brainwashed.
     
  20. But actual free will probably won't ever truly exist right?
     

Share This Page