1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Female attention

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by RocCity, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. RocCity

    RocCity Fapstronaut

    55
    46
    18
    I have been doing no P or M for about two weeks. I am married but the relationship isn't passionate, more like a functional business partnership. The one thing I notice is an increased awareness of and searching for connection with women. I'm not experiencing that much lust or sexual frustration per se. But in the gym I might glance at a woman and smile to see if she smiles back. I find myself longing for conversation or flirtation just to feel mutual attraction and to be reassured that I'm attractive to someone, whether online or in person. But I'm not initiating such contact because I fear being seen as creepy and because I'm married and don't want to send the wrong message. It seems that porn was a poor-but-adequate substitute for this type of interaction, and without porn the emotional need is more visible. Anyone have any thoughts or go through the same thing?
     
  2. I´m in a great relationship and there´s a lot of passion.
    But I do like to flirt with women when I have the chance.
    The excitement is just so different from what you have in a relationship.
    And of course it strokes your ego.

    You fear being seen as creepy? Well this is always a chance. But that´s part of the excitement. You never know what the other person thinks of you.
    And the fact that you are married is also no reason not to flirt. Everyone does. It just feels good.
    Just try not to flirt with a sexual intent. Cause that is sure to send the wrong signals.
    Oh and don´t cheat. Seriously!
     
  3. JakeWoods

    JakeWoods Fapstronaut

    288
    511
    93
    What's the point of flirting if you have no intention of cheating? That's kind of like waving a treat infront of your dog, and then not giving it to him. What's the point? It does nothing but annoy the dog. Lol. (And no I'm not referring to women as dogs, that was just the first example that popped into my head, before someone bites my head off.)
     
  4. Do you only flirt, when you wanna fuck?
     
  5. RocCity

    RocCity Fapstronaut

    55
    46
    18
    Yes, I don't want to or intend to cheat. I just crave the conversation and validation/ self esteem boost that comes with flirting and being found attractive by women. But, not quite outgoing enough to get there usually. Or I'm just not attractive or weird personality. Don't know.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  6. Runtilmylegsdropoff

    Runtilmylegsdropoff Fapstronaut

    1,522
    1,750
    143
    Uhh, you're married. You're supposed to only exclusively be wanting that validation from your wife. That's what your vows were about. Rules of the game.
     
  7. RocCity

    RocCity Fapstronaut

    55
    46
    18
    Fair enough, but I'm not really getting it. And that's part of what drives me to porn, I've realized, even though porn doesn't fulfill the interactive need either.
     
    BBWolf000 and Saskia Simone like this.
  8. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    My friend, I devolved into a rampant sex addiction--with a multitude of anonymous partners--because I craved the very validation you're talking about.

    If your sense of worth and self-esteem comes from female attention, I can almost guarantee that you will eventually cheat on your wife. I hate to pronounce that kind of judgment on anyone--but I say that with some credibility because I've been there. You will never fill that need through female attention, ever. No matter how many women respond positively to you, you'll just want it more. This is an appetite that grows with indulgence.

    The answer is to realize that your worth comes from God, or at least that your worth is intrinsic and not dependent on how other people perceive you. It's easier said than done, yes--but it's far, far better than putting your worth in women.

    It's fine to recognize the contributing factors that influence you toward porn. But I would caution you from ever blaming your wife for your PMO habits.
     
  9. RocCity

    RocCity Fapstronaut

    55
    46
    18
    @SuperFan
    Thanks for the honest feedback on this. To be clear, I don't blame my wife for my watching porn. It was my decision to watch it, and now going forward my decision and responsibility to continue to not watch it. She is a good woman and I don't want to be a cheater. So I don't want to go down the road that leads to cheating and betrayal but also frankly have come to the realization in the past few years that marriage is not meeting my emotional needs (maybe not hers either) and I don't expect that to change. We're perfectly functional (no fighting) but not emotionally bonded.

    I also agree our worth comes from God, and therefore, not meeting this emotional need should not make me think less of myself. It's difficult to internalize that truth, based on observation of human behavior generally. It seems to be quite common for men to need the conversation and flirtation with women, even if it is not intended sexually. Similarly I think a lot of women, married or not, crave attention from men even when they do not want to have sex with them. The socialization boosts our self-esteem. My post was just reflecting on this broader need and how for me, porn was, in part, a band-aid fix in place of fulfilling that emotional need. Without porn and alcohol to dull the senses and escape, the void lays bare.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  10. That is very generalizing. It seems to me that people on this thread can not distinguish beween flirting with sexual intent and without sexual intent. If what you were saying was true, I would have cheated on my gf by now (which I haven´t btw).
    A little socialization never hurt anyone. For example if you tell the cashier at the store, that she looks beautiful, she will feel good about herself and you will, too. But if you ask her for her number afterwards, to go on a date, then yeah, this probably leads to cheating.
     
  11. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    This sounds a bit... 'feminine' to me. Consider how many women there are today running around craving for attention from guys.

    A man should be grounded in himself, and find most of these floozies distinctly unattractive.
     
  12. Ukulele

    Ukulele Fapstronaut

    894
    1,568
    123
    Hey RocCity!

    I think interactions with women are normal and needed. I craved it just as you do, and similarly avoided it out of fear of coming off as creepy. I didn't interact much with women until I started to underdtand that it is totally based on my intention that it comes off as creepy or not.

    If my intention is to get to know a girl for who she is, because she seems interesting as a person (socializing, she is equal), it will never come off as creepy, no matter what I say or do. (What is she like as a person? I wonder where she's from, she looks exotic. She looks fit, I wonder if she also eats junk sometimes like me, etc.)

    But if my intention is to solely feel good about myself by talking to her, then I will invest too much in how she responds (ego boosting, she is on a pedastal), then it will always come off as needy and creepy, no matter what I say or do. (She looks hot, I will talk to her to show that I'm the man, I'm gonna try some line to sound cool, what should I say?, I'm gonna look dumb and creepy, etc)

    By not being aware of my intentuons, I constantly feared off coming off creepy, or feared sending the "wrong message" while I'm in a relationship, as you said earlier.

    What I practice is checking my intention before I talk to a woman, and holding myself to it. By practicing, I realized many of my actions were based on impressing women and showing off. This helps me to rethink my actions. As soon as my intention starts to meld more with sexual intent, I try to remove myself from the conversation, because I'm in a relationship. Nowadays, I don't come off as creepy, while I'm sure I did hundreds of times in the past.

    I hope it helps. Best of luck to you!
     
    Deleted Account and RocCity like this.
  13. I don't agree much with SuperFan but I think he has a point here.

    This is what one of worlds leading marriage/relationship councillors, Esther Perel, said on the subject of cheating:
    "At the heart of an affair, you will often find a longing and a yearning for an emotional connection, for novelty, for freedom, for autonomy, for sexual intensity, a wish to recapture lost parts of ourselves or an attempt to bring back vitality in the face of loss and tragedy... Contrary to what you may think, affairs are way less about sex and a lot more about desire. Desire for attention. Desire to feel special. Desire to feel important. The very structure of an affair — the fact that you can never have your lover — keeps you wanting. That in itself is a desire machine".

    I'm sorry for how things are between you and your wife. Your marriage sounds so dull and unfulfilling and it also sounds like you and your wife have settled for a mediocre marriage. You say you don't want to get on the road that leads to adultery but maybe you're already on it. I get you don't want to rock the boat but can you really go on like this?

    I think maybe you and your wife should talk about your relationship. Maybe you both need to see a marriage councillor. Maybe you should read some relationship/marriage books together. And if you don't want to do any of those things maybe you should just cheat. Don't get me wrong I think unfaithfulness is bad but maybe cheating would bring a new lease of life to your marriage. I mean it might bring out issues that you and your wife have been burying. Both of you might heal. Then again it might utterly destroy your marriage. But isn't your relationship dying? Can you spend the rest of your life with a woman where your emotional needs aren't met?

    At the end of the day this is just my opinion and I do wish things between your wife weren't this way.

    Here's Esther Perel TED Talk. It might not help but it might give you a different perspective to what you're going through.



    Here she explains what she was trying to say with her TED Talk:
     
    Kenzi likes this.
  14. RocCity

    RocCity Fapstronaut

    55
    46
    18
    @Surfing Poet
    This is all sound advice I think. I watched both the videos of Esther Perle, very interesting, thank you for sharing... I like TED talks!

    Yes, not intentionally, but from my perspective it is where we ended up. I was 19 and we were in college when we met. At that time I was also on the rebound from a girl I really loved. The relationship continued and we developed different interests and views. From the standpoint of being in my early 30s now (and I think, more mature than in my early 20s when we got engaged), I wonder why I settled and also wonder if I've missed out on more mutual fulfilling relationships, dating experiences, finding myself without the restrictions of having made other major life decisions around her plans and needs, since I was not too sure of who I was. So it feels mediocre in part because of the sense of having missed out on some important part of life over the years, or having punted it away, feeling depressed, fumbling toward nihilism and using porn, alcohol, and general withdrawal to cope.

    I say that in the sense I've never had a sexual relationship or even kissed another woman since meeting my wife. But, in another thread on the forum about cheating I "wondered aloud" if I am on the road to cheating because of the feelings I have about two friendships, one online, one in real life.

    She can be pretty volatile and I hate to make her upset. In fact we did go to counseling for a few months last year to work through one issue. We did successfully work through that issue but the counseling also brought to light some ways that we are bringing very different internal values to the relationship, and it is difficult to change either of our minds about it.

    It could go different ways I suppose. I could cheat, not get caught, and feel like I at least had the experience of sleeping with another woman, then go back to business as usual at home. I could cheat, get caught, and she could leave (as she has said she would in that situation). Or, I could get caught and we could stay together and resolve the issues after a very rocky period of time. These of course all presume the opportunity and ability to find someone to cheat with (which I don't have) and then go through with it despite the risks. And really, I don't want to hurt and betray her, so I feel it is unlikely to happen.

    Sorry for the long-winded rambling thoughts but thanks for the advice. :)
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  15. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Yes, you can because in the spheres of emotions, there are no needs. There is only desire and this can be controlled, sublimated, or re-directed.
     
  16. Hi RocCity. Are there any other ways in which your marriage isn't working, or is it just the sexual/emotional distance? I say 'just' but I realise these things are important. I'm not married, so I admit I don't have personal experience, but from my own perspective there should be no secrets in marriage. It should be about two people living as one, doing stuff together, making decisions together. You must sacrifice the single life you had before in order to life the (hopefully more fulfilling) married life. You've realised there is an issue with intimacy in your marriage, and porn was filling the void. But perhaps it was also contributing to the issue. Similarly there might be something your wife is doing which contributes to the feeling of distance. Perhaps you can try tactfully (and gradually) talking to her about your feelings. Timing is also important - don't bring stuff up when angry/stressed.

    Sounds like you also go out a lot without her? This may be contributing. Do you go out together often? I agree with SuperFan too, that getting validation from other women is not the answer, not if you want to save your marriage anyway. It's just another way of filling the void. Of course, I suppose the first question should be: do you want to save your marriage? Because how you behave will ultimately stem from the answer to that question.
     
    SuperFan likes this.
  17. So fucking true. That's one of my biggest struggles: my need for constant female attention and allowing a part of my self esteem to ride on that. Major props to you
    for recognizing that
     
    BBWolf000 and Hopefulgirl like this.
  18. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Thanks friend. It came at a heavy cost, let me tell you.
     
  19. It's ok and you're welcome. I must confess I'm not married myself but I like to listen to talks and read on the subject since I hope to get married some day.

    After reading this part I wasn't completely sure as to how to respond... First of all let me say something about having missed out. I'm guessing you think you may have missed out on something good - that's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at is that you missed out on bad stuff like marrying a physical abusive woman or being in a relationship who's addicted to crack cocaine. From your post it doesn't look like your wife is like such women.

    It's understandable that you would withdraw so you can cope since as human beings we can only take so much. We need an outlet, we need to take things easy sometimes. But it's worrying that you say you turn to alcohol to cope, it's very worrying. I'm not saying you are but I would concerned that you could turn into an alcoholic. Being addicted to porn is bad enough but an addiction to alcohol along with porn is even worse. Maybe you can find something less harmful to turn to in your trying to cope... Maybe something like watching sport or stand up comedy. Or maybe reading novels or if you don't like reading books you could listen to audio books.

    I was going to recommend a particular marriage book that maybe you could read with your wife, but maybe before you read any marriage book, maybe it's better to deal with these withdraws first. I don't know if you've a personal councillor. Maybe you could separate from your for a period of time so you can deal with your personal problems. I understand you don't want to hurt your wife and it's good you feel this way, but maybe your hurting her by not dealing with your problems.

    I'm no expert on this though, maybe it would be better to discuss all of the stuff going on with a trained councillor.
     
  20. RocCity

    RocCity Fapstronaut

    55
    46
    18
    @Surfing Poet
    Thanks again for your well-thought comments.

    That is true. She is a good wife, mother, and works hard, and does not have addictions or erratic behavior. So I am thankful. The thing that drives a wedge in fact is that she can be responsible and serious to a fault, insisting on having things her way, so that I feel marginalized and like I don't have a say.

    Over the years I became worried about my alcohol use. I've been trying to quit drinking longer than I've been trying to quit porn, and found it harder to quit/reduce. In fact I prioritize reducing my drinking. I drink significantly less now than 5-10 years ago, my peak booze years. I'll allow myself to drink when I'm out with friends to see music or that sort of thing, once every few weeks, but stopped buying beer at the grocery store to drink at home. And I do read books and watch sports when I have the time, which is rarely these days.
     
    Deleted Account likes this.

Share This Page