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100 Cold Approaches

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by StoicContemplation, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. greenishmoon

    greenishmoon Fapstronaut

    Hey man I stumbled upon this thread many times but never came to see what it was about. This is an incredible chore, I will keep reading your posts and I absolutely want to do it myself.
     
    ruso and Kowe like this.
  2. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    Hey man. Thank you! Just as Stoic inspired me I hope I can make others believe they too can have a go at this.
     
  3. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    Alright, today was another hot Spring day in my city. I didn't go out with the intention of talking to anyone but I ended up doing around 4 approaches.

    Earliest encounter was in the post office. I say, 'excuse me, is there a place I can exchange money here?'
    *she points to travel money section*
    'Does this place exchange money from any country?'
    'I don't know. But you're in the right place.'

    And then her friend arrived and ended it.

    Second one was a woman sitting on the steps smoking a cigarette. I said,

    'Excuse me, do you know any shops that sell adaptors for electronics? Just most of my equipment is from other countries' (-20 points for nerdiest opener so far)
    'Sorry mate, I don't know' (no idea how old she was but she looked young. Mannish use of mate was a bit surprising)
    'Oh okay. I used to live around here but shops like Argus and Curry's are closed now'
    'Maybe you can try in town'
    'Okay thanks' *I walk away*
    She smiled at the end because I think she knew the whole thing was a ruse I mean...who the hell needs someone to recommend going into town to look for a shop? That's like going up to someone and saying
    'do you know where I could buy some food to cook my dinner?'
    'How about the supermarket?'
    'Great idea! The supermarket! I never thought of that.'

    Honestly, I just feel like I blindsided her and I felt uncomfortable because she was sat down. But what the hell man you went for it with seated targets before? I feel if people are seated they are somewhat cornered and so I don't want to push things much. But clearly I am more sensitive to that at some times than others.

    I go to the sit on a bench and I see a woman walking a dog. It looks similar to the one I have so I ask about that and we chat about various things like features of the dog and problems related to training the dog. She is old, married and unattractive so I feel weird counting it but it was good practice all the same.

    Later, I get to the train station. There is a woman sitting next to me and I hear her playing some language game on her phone without headphones.

    I go, 'excuse me, what language is that?'
    'It's Welsh'
    'Oh cool. Is it difficult?'
    'Yeah it is.'
    'Actually one of my favorite bands are Welsh and they had an album all in Welsh. It was called Mwng. No vowel sounds. Do you know what that means?'
    'No'
    'How do you say it?'
    'I think the w is 'oo''
    'Right so it's moong.'
    'Yeah'
    'I like learning other languages. I used to live in Japan so I learnt Japanese'
    'A very difficult language'
    'Yeah, especially the writing system. Though to speak it's phonetic so it's easy to say most words.'
    'Ok'

    I get on the train and sit down. She sits nearby me. So we continue. She tells me how she is in the choir and sang some songs in Welsh. I mention how it's a blessing and a curse that English is the world's first language because there's less motivation to learn a second language. I talk about how learning other languages helps broaden your perspective and see strange things about your language. She tells me she was a teacher and used to find words like 'look' and 'book' hard to teach to kids. I ask her about that job she tells me it was very hard and not a lot of respect. I tell her I lived abroad a long time. She asks where, I say Japan and Canada. She tells me she can hear the Canada in my voice. I say yeah my accent is malleable. I ask her where she is from and she tells me she is from the same town as me and says she has seen me around.
    I say
    'Well, if you want to hangout sometime....' and I don't finish the sentence but she picks up on it and says
    'That's really kind of you. You can find me at ____ and ______' then she gets off the train.

    Cringe!!

    She was older so maybe married? (I couldn't see the ring) but damn...the idea I kind of half went for the details and she blew me off anyway was defo embarrassing to live through!

    55/100
     
  4. greenishmoon

    greenishmoon Fapstronaut

    Blew off? Was it?

    This is really helping you with you conversation isn't it?
     
  5. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    Yeah it was a way to be polite without sharing her number.

    Yep, it does. You could change this thread to 'the conversation practice challenge' and it'd also be accurate.
     
  6. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    Wasn't really planning to do any approaches today but ended up doing two.

    One was a woman sitting on a bench.

    'Excuse me, do you know where I can buy a new smart phone cover?'
    'Sorry, I'm not from here.'
    'Right, me neither. It's just my screen has cracked.'
    'I don't know' *she looks down at phone*

    Wasn't feeling it and when targets are seated I leave as soon as they show sign of discomfort.

    Another one was in the supermarket

    'Excuse me, do you know if there's a bigger supermarket near here?'
    'Hmm I don't know I guess there is _____ or ______'
    'Right. It's just I'm looking for some almond milk but this isn't refrigerated.'
    'I think there's some cooled in the refrigerator section'
    'Thanks'

    This was one was a missed opportunity. Should have rambled more about almond milk. But I kind of let it slide and felt a bit ashamed for some reason when she pointed out that what I was looking for was in exactly the section it should be.

    Anyway, I missed a few chances with women who made eye contact with me in the streets. I am so bad at acting upon eye contact and am still making the same mistakes by doing approaches on extremely cold targets. No wonder I'm stalling with the challenge!

    57/100
     
    brassknucks likes this.
  7. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    Went for a walk in the countryside today.

    Just one approach.

    I said,

    'Hi, do you know any good trails?'
    to open. We had a short exchange about the trails. We mentioned footwear. I dropped my bait about climbing Mt. Fuji in Japan in my trainers.

    I was too self-deprecating though. I said 'these are the worst trainers you could have for this activity' and pointed to them.

    I should have been playfully cocky like, 'Guess who is wearing the perfect shoes for this?' and pointed to my tattered shoes with a cheeky playful grin.

    I use self-deprecation too much and it's weak. Ah well.

    I mentioned I have hiking boots but they rub my ankle and she told me how great her boots were though I switched off a bit with her long description. She ended it right after this though so maybe she picked up on that.

    One good thing was I held my ground and kept talking when she tried to end things and stretched it out a bit longer. It ended ultimately with her throwing out the 'anyway'

    'anyway' is the end always.

    'Anyway'

    Might as well be saying, 'kill yourself.' Same number of syllables, hehe.

    Anyway one more approach, I'll take it.

    58/100
     
  8. Infidel.48

    Infidel.48 Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    What would happen if you went and just said "Wow, your beautiful blah blah " I mean what if you just make your intentions clear in the first sec of the approach ? .I am just curious
     
  9. 4:30am

    4:30am Fapstronaut

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    "Excuse me"

    Eye contact.

    "Oh!"

    *takes out earphones*

    "Hi, sorry"

    "Hi. I know it's covid and all, but I promise I'm healthy..."

    Laugh - she'll say (if she's normal) "it's okay, no, no, it's fine"

    Pause (take off mask a little, smile) and look away at the dreiction where you came walking to meet her from.

    "So. I saw you over there and I fancied your (shoes,bag,hairstyle,the way you dress) and I thought to myself, 'am I going to just look at her looking all cute or am I actually be nice and come and say hello for a change?'

    She'll smile/blush/laugh if she fancies you even a little.

    "so I thought I'd be nice and come and say hello, I'm (your name) what's you name?"

    "I'm (her name)"

    "nice to meet you"

    "nice to meet you"

    "What are you up to right now on this sunny/fine/drizzly/overcast day?"

    "I'm just about to meet/nothing/just shopping/I don't know/on a break from work/walking"

    "Do you fancy grabbing a coffee, like now?"

    "Now?"

    "I only have like 15 minutes, my treat - will starbucks do?"


    Haha heya guys. This is a great thread. Keep up the good work.

    Onwards,

    4:30am
     
  10. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    I think it's already so strange to be approaching in public that when you do that you run the risk of freaking them out.

    Some people do go direct and it works for them. I just prefer to go indirect.
     
    JosephKony69 likes this.
  11. StoicContemplation

    StoicContemplation Fapstronaut

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    I believe in substance over form. The whole 'indirect vs direct' debate is like discussing 'Microsoft vs Apple', but then for guys who are into game.

    All my approaches were indirect too. I think that every 'style' has its flaws.

    I guess that direct is more congruent, you don't have to construct this sham in order to talk and you don't waste time.

    But I think that the whole premise that the first instance of exchange has to be honest in order to potentially get intimacy is fallacious.

    I prefer indirect because it's a good way to check if a girl is open for a chat without being too overwhelming. If I ask a girl if her cookie is any good and she answers "Whatever." whilst rolling her eyes and looking back at her phone... would giving compliments change that attitude? A good indirect opener is a test case to determine if she wants to have chat. If she wants to have chat, it's likely that the topic of discussion will get personal. If things get personal, then exchanging digits is a logical follow-up. I guess that with something like "Excuse me. I think you're hot. Want to grab a coffee sometime?" she will have to immediately determine if she will take you into consideration, mainly based on your looks.

    This is why the process of this type of dating improves your game even when you're not getting the results you desire. This is in contrast with internet game (dating apps, social media). When you make an account on a dating app and you spend your time swiping/messaging... What do you learn? How is that improving your game? Will that increase your confidence?

    Actually getting out there and talking with girls however, will intrinsically increase your game (and be of use in later stages like a date). The confidence you get from doing this can be useful in other aspects of life. The increased conversational skills for example can be used in all social situations.

    I did more approaches after the challenge but now it's been some weeks since I actually did one.

    Today I was walking in a forest (having the recent posts of the thread in mind) and a girl was standing on the pathway looking at her phone. I thought "Heck, why not?" I asked her where this track leads to. She doesn't speak my language (I live in a bilingual area). I tried to ramble a bit, but to no avail. A combination of my poor French and rusty approach skill made it hard to establish a chat. I was glad I opened up nonetheless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
    ruso, 4:30am and Infidel.48 like this.
  12. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    The sun was shining today and I went out and hit the streets.

    First one was on a bench before catching the train. Opened up with 'excuse me, what time is the next train to______'
    She answers. She's doing some studying so I ask her a bit about that and talk a bit about my frustrations studying that particular subject. I let it fizzle out though because she seemed too young.

    Next one was an older woman walking a dog. Started with the, 'what breed of dog is that opener?' and then went into all sorts of details about my struggles training my dog. The thing I learnt is that if you have common ground (dogs) and are genuinely interested in the topic, conversation is kind of easy. There's no, 'what am I going to say next?' and very little 'I wonder if this is boring?' I'm not saying everyone should force themselves to buy dogs or read books on dogs but it's one good example where you can find common ground and talk in depth with a stranger. Cooking is probably another one.

    And on that note, I used the exact same opener on a cool looking rock chick I saw a few minutes later. Guns N' Roses T-shirt, Doc Martins, very cute. Oh, and she turns out to be Polish.

    I go into some depth again about my struggles training my dog the 'paw' trick and at a few points I saw her body language change to start walking away but I just kept throwing out more stuff about the dog and eventually her body language changed and she stayed there. I got a few good laughs with observations like how I give my dog a treat for doing something but I'll give myself a cookie for nothing and of course I repeatedly dropped bait about things I'd seen in 'South East Asia' like dogs in clothes, dogs in prams, dogs on skateboards. Eventually, mentioned I would be going to school soon and she asked me what I was studying (good sign!) and when I asked her name, she asked mine back (even better!)

    We talked a bit about places we walk in the area and when I said 'I usually walk _____' she invited me for a walk with her there and then!

    We walked for about 1.15 hours talking the whole time. It was super easy and fun and fresh.

    I guess in a way this was a 'same day date' but I didn't escalate at all. I just focused on the conversation and the one thing I did different to 'usual me' is I held back revealing everything about myself. When she asked about why I moved to Canada, I was evasive on purpose. When I talked about my hobbies, I didn't go into any depth at all. This is all because I read somewhere you're more attractive to women when you are somewhat mysterious.

    However, I couldn't quite bring myself to 'rate her' in the chat by saying things like, 'woah, you Guns N' Roses? + 10 points!' which I've also read is a good thing to show you have standards. Overall, I fear I was a bit simpy/nice guy/friend zoned immediately. But whatever. I have to learn this stuff one step at at time. Though with today's walk it was more like 15,000 steps! So if anything it was a good work out and pleasant calming conversation with one of the coolest gals I have met in a long time.

    I get her number at the end. I texted her today (same day text) and she replied almost immediately. Hopefully we can hang out again soon.

    61/100

    So ladies and gents it's been almost 30 damn approaches since my last number. By far the longest drought in the whole thing and I have to say I had given up hope completely and was ultimately just doing the approaches to entertain myself after 50. But you just never know.
     
  13. 4:30am

    4:30am Fapstronaut

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    Damn good work there brother. Do you think you'll maybe intergrate this into your sets? Looks like you stumbled upon some gold ideas: like a possble set-extender, maybe "do you mind if I walk you to the end of the block" or "which way are you going?" or "I'm walking to 'x' do you mind if I walk with you for a few block before I go?" and then sort of lead the way, and stop like you did and get that #. Again top work. Keep it up!

    Onwards,

    4:30am
     
  14. 4:30am

    4:30am Fapstronaut

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    Just had some inspiration yesterday to share:

    "I don't know if you're meant to talk to people inbetween this covid time with all these masks and all...."

    pause, and take off mask and smile....if she's cool, she'll say something like "I know, I know, it's cool I'm vaccinated/ I don't care/ or just laugh*"

    "Hey I'm 4:30am..."

    "Hi I'm girl..."

    "It's weird talking to anyone with these masks huh?"

    "Yeah omg it is.."

    "It's like, Let's just stand here and exchange looks with our eyes...How's your day? Doing good?"

    "yeah I'm good...

    Onwards,

    4:30am
     
  15. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    Just one approach today.

    Walked up to a girl in the post office and said, 'excuse me, do they sell any index cards here?'
    She showed me around the store a bit and I said 'I just need them for my course.'
    *she looks around a bit*
    Then I say, 'yeah I can see all sorts of greetings cards but no index cards. maybe I'm in the wrong section.'
    Then she said 'maybe you should ask the staff, sorry.'

    I didn't throw out enough bait and didn't feel like she wanted to chat. She was also incredibly out of my league and in my area, a 10.

    62/100

    Went out with the girl I got the number of. Had a walk and a chat. I tried escalating with touching and the old palm reading shtick. I practiced being a bit cocky instead of self-deprecating. For example, I read her palm in a hesitant uninformed way and said 'You should be paying me money for this.' My first instinct was to say 'well, that was terrible.' This opposite of my usual down on myself routine got a bit of a laugh. I've also been trying hard to make comments on surroundings instead of being too heady/serious/philosophical.

    Eventually we sat on a park bench and I did go in for the kiss but botched it and she wasn't up for it.

    Later on, she seemed to invite me to her place but maybe I misunderstood that. I thought that now she had clarified 'I'm not into you' she was okay with me maybe being at her place as a friend. Then she said she'd be happy to meet me again with my dog, almost as if she was saying 'I'll hang out with you as a fellow dog owner but nothing more.' That's my interpretation. However, as I type this she just sent me a 'how's it going?' text. Hmmm....

    Rejection is painful but you know what's worse? Not trying.

    The problem for me here was treating the 'date' like a masturbatory thing. Sure, I feel like kissing her kind of but I didn't read the atmosphere right.

    I don't know. It's tough to get the balance because yeah I do think overall you should go for it. But going for it without building up right? It's not understanding that seduction is like a dance and you need to feel out the vibe of the other person effectively. I didn't do that today basically. Sure, if you just dive in for a kiss out of nowhere I guess that's better than allowing yourself to be friend zoned but it's still not an effective strategy.

    I have a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, for all of my possible charms and quirks and what not, I have to live with the fact that at this time I am not sexually attractive or an effective seducer of women. It's a painful thing to know and have to live with, but at least I'm honest with myself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  16. First of all, props for all your hard work. You are Thomas Edison inventing the light bulb. In the beginning it’s all about what doesn’t work.

    I am not an expert at seduction, but I am sufficiently experienced to know that this is really dumb. Try “Hi, what’s your name?” Or “Excuse me, I couldn’t help but notice...” Don’t put her in the position to provide for you something you could figure out yourself. If she’s interested in meeting someone new she will respond to any interest you show in her so you might as well be more direct and to the point about what you want. What do you want?

    It sounds like you are trying clone things you’ve read or watched online and it comes across as inauthentic. Don’t try to trick a woman into bed with you. Figure out what you have to offer, get good at offering it, and get good at spotting all the different ways women say “no thank you” and “yes please!”

    If you are going to go the palm reading route really give her something to work with: “It’s hard to tell, I can see so much depth here. Your future is as complex as your present. You are a very open and friendly person, but it seems like you hold yourself back more than you should.” A dismissive one liner doesn’t seem right to me at all. Go read some horoscopes. It’s all generic bullshit that makes people feel more interesting than they actually are. A little goes a long way. Some people really gobble it up. Maybe that’s you. Maybe it’s the woman you actually want. Maybe it’s not.

    Good man. Cats are cringe.

    This sets you apart from other men. That’s good. Don’t let it be self-defeating. Be grateful and let that gratitude show.
     
    RealMe likes this.
  17. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    First off, I disagree the opener was 'dumb' - there are no dumb opener. Just say anything to initiate an interaction. Could I have said better things after that? Yes probably. But opening is incredibly hard and stress inducing so whatever you do, it's good, it's a start. Who knows, a different person might have responded differently. Maybe if I'd said something more engaging afterwards we might have had a longer chat. It's easy to judge after the fact. Any opener can be tried multiple times to judge it's effectiveness. If I had used that opener to find some common ground about studying, who knows? Maybe she was also a student. Maybe she had some other method of studying. Any opener can work even the 'dumb' ones if you use it to build some chemistry. But I didn't or couldn't do that. Maybe it was me, maybe it was the mood she was in, there are hundreds of variables that can thwart even an on paper 'great' opener.

    I also disagree about using 'what's your name?' as an opener. I prefer to be indirect. Directions openers are okay just to get things rolling. But what happens next is key to building the chemistry. The transition from the opener to the chat that is comfortable and enjoyable is tough, but the content of the opener is not so important. It's just a way to put myself in this person's world and hopefully present some things about myself which might lead to a casual and fun chat. I did what I could, I mentioned my studies. I could have done more and better for sure, but it wasn't 'dumb' in my opinion. You are free to think that and try those openers and let me know if they work, but I don't want to directly state what I want since in my opinion that conveys too much needyness and is likely to make them feel uncomfortable. I want to the create the atmosphere that this is just a little chat between a few strangers. The opener is only a link to that, though often the chain is broken immediately and it ends. That's what's so hard about it.

    Sometimes in this challenge, I have had interactions what were just casual conversations and of course, I wanted more, I wanted to hang out for longer, to kiss them, to have sex with them, should I say this out loud because it's being 'honest' ? I don't personally believe so.

    About the date and the charge that I am ' trying clone things you’ve read or watched online and it comes across as inauthentic.' That's only partly the case. It's not like I was running off a script. We were together for about 1.5 hours chatting the whole time in a spontaneous way. As I said, a huge part of the conversation were observations I made about our surroundings. Yeah sure, I read in a book to do that but the way I did it was using my own personal observations as well as the things that were in front of us in that moment. It's not like I was scanning my mind like 'what did that PUA guy say about the music in NYC coffee shops again?'

    I understood that I needed to escalate if I wanted to make things more than just a friendly chat and I did so. Sure, I've read tips and strategies online but ultimately if I just went with 'being myself' the whole time I'd be friend zoned because my natural impulse is to just go with the non-sexual platonic flow. I have to try doing things I don't normally do, which includes things others suggest. Being my usual comfort seeking self will get me nowhere. My brain is wired towards being a passive feminized man who does not deserve sexual gratification or love, so I have to act like someone who is not like that until some of it sticks. Fake it til you make it I guess. Sometimes when you pretend to be someone else, it's actually more like who you really are - since the 'act' is actually part of yourself you have deeply repressed. Even if I was doing some sort of a schtick, which I'm not, parts of myself are still going to come through because I'd be using my own thoughts, ideas, topics of conversation, sense of humour and I'd of course look like me, and sound like me.

    And who ISN'T on some level putting on a show? You could argue birds who sing to attract mates are 'hiding their authentic selves' through that song. Or you could say they are actually being themselves by using that form of expression to attract a mate. Nobody is saying to birds 'hey, you just copied some other birds there. How about figuring out something that's more yourself?'

    As I pointed out myself though, just because people online say you must act doesn't mean you should do so without creating the right conditions. I rushed it because I had a fantasy idea of a sexual conquest but I hadn't done enough to create that mood with the human in front of me.

    I think the palm reading thing was fine. I just rushed the kiss and probably shouldn't have gone for it. The touch escalation was not rejected. If you haven't read about my last date, well the girl messaged me afterwards shocked that I had even attempted to touch her hand and made it explicitly clear she didn't want me to do that ever again. So just getting a touch without being swatted away means I made some progress. But a kiss is the next thing and can't be something you just dive in for. Not that I did that, but I rushed the process because I was afraid of regretting inaction. But thinking like that 'I have to act because if I don't act I'll feel bad!' is too damn heady, it's masturbatory, it's not thinking enough about the other person. I have a lot to learn.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    Garek likes this.
  18. I am definitely not suggesting you say these things out loud, but you do need to communicate what you want and you should think of it in terms of what you have to offer. Are you interested in hearing more of what she has to say? Ask a question. Are you interested in what her lips feel like? Touch hers with yours. It's a gift. As with any gift, you chose carefully but deliberately. With kindness and care for what the person on the receiving end actually wants and needs.

    It seems to me like you are doing a lot of the right things, you just need to adjust your intent and take a more direct approach to what you want.
     
  19. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    I've been pretty direct to be fair. It's not about directness it's just about building attraction so it naturally develops instead of trying to force it. Easier said than done since you also do have to force it to a degree, otherwise you just get stuck in the friend zone.
     
  20. Kowe

    Kowe Fapstronaut

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    So I went for a walk in nature today and tried some countryside approaches.

    First one was a woman sat on a bench. I noticed she had one of these sticks for hiking. I said,

    'excuse me, where did you get that stick?'
    'Amazon.'
    'Right. Just I was thinking of buying one.'
    Yeah.'
    'It could help with the steeper trails.'
    'Right.'
    'Do you know where you're walking today? I think I'll probably just go in a straight line.'
    'Yeah you can get anywhere pretty easily.'
    'Right. I've just moved here from abroad so I don't know this area so well. Do you ?
    'Yeah, I live here so I've taken these trails many times.'
    'Cool. By the way, what are these flowers called?'
    'Bluebells.'
    'It's weird they're called blue bells when they're purple.'
    'I guess.'
    'Well, have a good walk!'
    'You too. See you!'

    I ultimately ended it myself because I didn't want to bother her and I didn't feel too much of a connection.

    Considering I opened with the stick I should have asked more questions about it.

    Later, I see a girl with a bulldog.

    I said,

    'Excuse me, is that a bulldog?' Then she said yeah. I had the same kind of interaction I've had before with dog owners where I talked about the difficulties training my own dog. Eventually her grandmother arrived which cut things short. She was quite friendly and encouraged me to pet her dog.

    These little mini interactions are good just to keep the idea of approaching a stranger to be a normal thing in your mind.

    64/100

    Ultimately, I could have stretched these interactions out for more practice but I try to read the atmosphere and not force a chat.

    Even short chats that are failures in the eyes of people who think you need results every time are still helpful as building blocks for confidence. Each little chat where you try a new opener or line are helping you become someone who is comfortable talking to unknown people.

    It's tough for me psychologically to go against the voice in my head of, 'this isn't you! People like you don't do this' but you just have to ride that out. I would say I've gotten better but that comes back more strongly when people are in earshot and can hear everything I'm saying.

    One of the other reasons I go indirect is because my intentions are not purely sexual. If all I have is a little chat, I'm happy with that. My goal is basically to have a small conversation. If through the course of the chat it turns out there is some chemistry or she has some interest in me, then my desires and goals shift to get the number, then a date, then intimacy. This is what bothers me a bit about people saying, 'you need to go directly for what you want.' Well, what I want changes at different stages of the process. In the beginning stages, it really is all about the chat.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
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