116 Days with P, M, or O, and I am considering starting to MO again

So, the big thing I want to say in this post, is that I'm considering masturbating without porn. I originally discussed this (a while ago) in this post. At the time of writing, I answered the question, "After NoFap, will you masturbate?", by saying "uncertain" but leaning towards no.

However, my POV has changed recently.

For one, I want to be able to last longer during sex. I don't want to feel self conscious when I have a chance with someone about not being able to last. This applies more so for a one-night stand type of situation rather than someone I like and have gone on dates with (because I would feel more open with the latter person).

Two, I was reading about Tantric sex and having multiple orgasms, and a lot of the practice seems to start with masturbating (and trying to have longer masturbation sessions to build stamina). This does seem like edging to me, but I don't know (I REALLY DON'T KNOW) the difference between edging with porn and edging without. How bad is the latter?? But I don't want to deprive myself of this experience because of NoFap.

Thirdly, I feel I'm depriving myself of so much by consistently refusing myself to orgasm without a partner, when I haven't had a partner in months.

Fourthly, when I tell people that I haven't masturbated since 2015, they see it as pretty extreme behavior (which I understand). From their perspective, which I can completely understand, it sounds like I'm doing something to counteract very negative behavior. But in this community, I don't feel like I'm on the worse end of the spectrum. I have never had any sexual issues (no ED, no DE, etc), and I never fantasized about porn to get an erection and I've never fantasized during sex. I am totally on board with quitting porn, because porn is what fucks with everything. But I don't know if I'm totally on board with quitting masturbation. I quit porn because I want a healthy lifestyle and I want to grow as much as possible. Porn completely retards that growth and my life is substantially better without it. However, I can't say MOing obstructs me from having a healthy lifestyle. I can't say my life is better without MOing. It might be better WITH MOing.

Fifthly, (and this is the most important) I don't have a personal reason for quitting masturbation. I wrote a long post about how to make NoFap personal, and that has been a crucial learning point in my recovery. To summarize that personal discovery:
I knew thousands of reasons porn was bad, but the reason I had relapsed a few times is because I hadn't come up with very personal reasons for wanting to quit porn. The biggest reason is written in blue in my signature. I realized that when I relapse, I don't feel guilty. In fact I don't feel anything negative. I generally just feel relief. Knowing that, it was hard to stay sober when I didn't really think there was a consequence of guilt. However, by making NoFap personal I discovered that I always go back to a spiral of overusing porn and within two weeks I feel like shit. So now, I've abstained from porn for a long time because I KNOW I will feel like shit if I relapse and I don't want that.

HOWEVER, I don't have this logic for quitting masturbation. Right now, I'm having trouble seeing why I should abstain from MO permanently. One argument might be that MOing might lead back to porn, but I don't know that for sure (in my experience, at least). Yes, MOing can lead to death grip and shit like that, but I've never had that issue (after PMOing for 10 years). And I have nothing against sperm retention and the sperm=life force philosophy, but it's not a reason for me.

If I knew that MOing definitely leads to porn use, then that would be reason enough for me. But I don't know that. And I don't think it too.

But right now, I feel like I'm just abstaining from MOing for the hell of it. I am totally on board with a porn free life. My belief that porn is destructive will not diminish. I do believe I made the right choice in abstaining from MOing to make my recovery as dramatic and full as possible. But now I feel I'm reaching a point of diminishing returns, where abstaining from MO is not bringing anything to my life anymore. And with several reasons (listed above) for wanting to MO, I feel the cons of abstaining match or outweigh the pros.

I'm in desperate need for feedback, so please share.

 

A valid point, but I think that holds true from abstaining from porn. I think the benefits I have felt are there from my quitting porn. I do think not masturbating put my recover in full speed, but I have reached a bit of a plateau with my recovery. Now, my cravings to MO, I feel, are kind of bringing me down.

Again, I feel the positives come from the no porn. But I don't know for certain. But I'm willing to try and track my energy levels, my overall mood, etc. And I'm willing to go back to abstaining if I realize this isn't the healthiest thing for me.

Totally agree with you bud. I've tried several times to recover while allowing masturbation and sex. I've also had a girlfriend the other times and being with her, and showering with her, it was hard to fully step away from my sexual desires in order to recover. So, I'm a huge fan of quitting everything when trying to recover. But I'm not trying to begin my recovery now. I'm trying to reach a healthy lifestyle, where this does not preoccupy so much of my waking thoughts.

I'm thinking of ~twice a week and fantasizing about as little as possible. Just trying to focus on the feel. Maybe, thinking of sexual relationships I have had in the past?

I have been dating brah. A few of them, I genuinely wasn't interested in. One I was totally into, but she had too recently got out of a relationship. One just looking for friends. etc. etc. etc. It just hasn't happened. I would love to have a regular sexual relationship, but it hasn't happened so far. But even so, as I mentioned, I do feel some anxiety about cumming too quickly - since I can last long.

 

I'd like to start by saying I MO'd last night. I was amazed how quickly I reached right before the point of no return. Literally took me less than 10 seconds. Obviously, it was a huge load.
More importantly, how I felt: Today has been fine. Typical energy levels, no loss in motivation, no brain fog, etc. Feels like a normal day for the most part. I haven't been thinking about P or MOing today (not more than the usual scattered tangential thought every so often).

Thanks for saying this - I found it very supportive.

I think if I ever MO and start wishing or seriously considering watching P, then I need to really address my emotions and my strategies. Keeping a phone away is a good idea. In the case yesterday, I wasn't even thinking about watching porn, but that may have been partially because I reached the point of no return so quickly. You mention a few other strategies, which I like. I'll record in my journal my MOing habits, to start off (although I don't want to be doing this my whole life. I need to also watch if I start MOing in points during the day where I don't really have the time to do that. And I most strongly agree with your point about noting energy levels, motivation, and mental clarity.

I am well aware once a week can turn into much much more, but it's just something to be particularly careful about. And since I've started NoFap, I've noticed that I've been more selective about who I pursue. It's easy to tell someone you don't know to go ahead and go try to sleep with someone even if you're not really interested, but when I'm actually talking to someone I'm considering pursuing, it's different. I ask myself, "Do I want to even see this person again? Do I want to go on a date with this person?" I don't want to try to sleep with someone when I'm totally not into it during the date. The key difference in my experiences lately compared to a few years ago, is I envision a date with the person. It's makes a difference being into someone vs not. And yes, I may have thrown away a sexual opportunity, but I think it's worth it.

Interestingly enough, I didn't fantasize about anything last night. I just focused on the feeling and I didn't really think about any girl or anything. I know this might not be the case regularly, but I definitely think it's possible to avoid over sexualized thoughts.

On the contrary, I think this is a great strategy for lasting longer. I don't see this being a problem for me.

I totally agree. However, the conversation is not about abstaining from orgasm - it's about abstaining from ejaculation.