12 steps?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Ed74, May 9, 2021.

  1. Ed74

    Ed74 Fapstronaut

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    I have had sucess in the past with 12 step programs with drugs and alcohol. Ive been clean for years. Does anyone here go to SA or perhaps just use the 12 steps alongside the nofap community? Not really thrilled about going to meetings again i began to find it a little cultish, not to offend anyone just my perspective. Thanks for your input.
     
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  2. Chefb87

    Chefb87 Fapstronaut

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    I've been going to SAA for over two years now. And I've worked the 12 steps in this group with my sponsor. This group and the people in it are a big reason why I'm 2 years in recovery and going strong. !
     
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  3. i currently attend sa and have been attending na for almost three years(still clean). i still struggle with the cult like feelings i get from being there sometimes. Most of the people i talk to are in program and that has its good and bad sides.
    i have had some streaks of sexual sobriety (4 months was my longest) currently i am rather discouraged about the whole program but i know thats just a resentment i am holding on to. i know i can find some help in the rooms since i see many examples of it my my area(i know multiple people with over 20 years of sexual sobriety) but as of late i have been struggling to make it past 1 week(only happened once on the past year). I know i cant handle this stuff but i keep going back to what makes my life unmanageable. to end on a positive note im grateful for the few hours of sobriety i have and i wish you the best of luck in your journey.
     
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  4. Shin Iu

    Shin Iu Fapstronaut

    dont know sa or na stand for. but keep your greqt work anyway
     
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  5. Catholic Austist

    Catholic Austist Fapstronaut

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    Twelve steps:
    I. Don't touch your willy sexually.
    II. Don't look at pornographic material.
    III-XI. Avoid near occasions of fapping.
    XII. Profit.
    Joking aside, you can probably find something online. If not there are quite a few accountability groups and the like.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  6. I think everyone even with reservations about 12 Step can acknowledge the peer support as the helpful thing, and I think it's helpful to look at what the program itself consists of. There's a lot I think is valuable, some that could use improvement but in general people don't seem to be open to any idea that it can be improved upon. My impression from experience with different programs over the years is nobody wants to talk about that since it's largely for social support, and it can be taken personally and instead of seeing if you have a point people might look at it like "who are you to question the program that's been around so long" etc. The simple logic though is regardless of who happens to be making the observation, it's either true or not - and why would we want to block any actual improvement? The lack of openness towards new ideas is what I believe accounts for how some feel it is cultish.

    That said, it is an existing social network in a way that's more real than social media, even with the serious reduction from the pandemic year we would need to do a lot of work to build up something from the beginning. The obvious advantage that 12 Step would have over anything new would not necessarily be whether the program is better IMO, but just the sheer number of people that follow it.

    If we can actually not be caught up with numbers in terms of membership, but whether it actually functions well (or better) as a program, then we have a chance. I think it's telling that even some programs that are sort of in-between in terms of organization and membership numbers doesn't exactly gain traction even if they have some structure in place, and I think that goes back to how people mostly use it for social support. But working a program isn't the same as support, not to mention developing the program in the first place. You need both but there has to be enough of a program structure in the first place, and I think a lot gets caught up in beaurocratic red tape and the average person doesn't end up even talking about it much less come to a comprehensive understanding of everything that ends up being instituted.

    In principal I agree with and like the "attraction rather than promotion" point from 12 Step, in practice in this time of history I don't think it's realistic. I think it is QUITE possible that someone can come up with and work a good program for themselves, and the vast majority of people simply doesn't pay nearly enough attention to benefit from it in any specific way, let alone rally together to build a fellowship around it. The attention issue with any IT based addiction simply cuts into the mental processing of all this. (or actually, seeing it in the first place let alone process it) I hate to say it but it looks to me like it's largely because of a well known "brand name".

    IF there's going to be anything better, or a renewed take on 12 Step people just have to work together in a very deliberate way rather than just kind of hang out and receive benefit from social osmosis. The latter casual approach is most likely going to suffer from gradual entropy as far as I can tell.
     
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  7. Chefb87

    Chefb87 Fapstronaut

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    When it all boils down 12 steps is basically getting you to finally , maybe for the first time , look, and heal the inside instead of what we are used to doing ( distraction or numbing externally )
    12 steps gets you to look inside to see the amount of secrecy , shame and just plan muck that is inside of you. And as you go through the steps you're digging all of the muck out . ( Becoming honest , and admitting how you've hurt ppl )
    It's such a powerful process that will only see clearly when you go through it with detication yourself :)
     
    Ed74 likes this.
  8. Ed74

    Ed74 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for all the input guys it helps alot i think i will just have to go to a meeting and see how it feels. After 4 years sobriety in aa i found i just couldnt walk through the doors anymore. With that being said it did save my life as i was doing much more life threatening things than drinking. It does work and i havent used in years even though i havent been to a meeting in years. Some would say i didnt have a problem if i can stay sober without the program and i have a resentment because i dont agree with 100% of whats being said in the rooms. BUT i guess any organization with people whether political, religious, or social there will be differences of opinion and some B.S. ,mine included. We shall see...thanks again. Im going thursday ill let you know.
     
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  9. Fishn1

    Fishn1 Fapstronaut

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    I tried it for a while, there is a structure to it that is supposed to help but may not apply to everyone. It's a commitment, and traveling is involved so it's part of your commitment. Some groups may work better than others just for the people that are there or the way that it's structured for each group. I've been doing my best to come here as a reminder of what I'm doing and what I'm up against. It's ok to fail, but better to keep trying and learn from it each time, although it always seems to offer the same lesson of pain and misery. I'm not so sure I want to commit to 12 steps again, but I'm certain I need to change and that you must do anything you can that helps. All you can do is give it a try and see how you feel.
     
    Ed74 likes this.
  10. Also as they say "it works if you work it" - on a basic level you can say you have to do the work vs. just hanging out, but maybe what doesn't get looked at sometimes is you have to do it correctly. In my experience a lot of people don't seem to think too much about even the slogans, and may even do some things that are fairly blatant violations of the principals.

    As someone else mentioned it also depends on the particular group and people in the group. A person that acts as a guide/mentor of sorts, whether it's a psychotherapist or a sponsor is hopefully someone with some perspective and does what they're supposed to do. I imagine it's like if you research the kind of therapy the therapist practices, just like you look at what 12 Steps involved and if they deviate significantly from it then that isn't going to be reassuring to say the least.

    Just kind of thinking out loud but I guess there's working on ourselves and collectively on a group level, even if it's a small and local group, and also being concerned with a program/organized approach for each in doing that work. Personally if a mentor figure integrates something not in the program in a way that makes sense I could be open to that, but on the other side of it I think a lot of what kind of becomes the cultural norm in 12 Step circles are probably not really even found in the Steps/Traditions/Big Book or it doesn't qualify for the historical and cultural context in which the program was created. Even mentioning this I wonder if anyone will have an automatic reaction, but there's a difference between the fellowship or the social aspect and the actual program. If people do not make a distinction between the two then it seems one of two things can happen: People can assume those common practices are also a part of the program, and may either go along with it or not. The second possibility on that level I guess is people may form a new fellowship based on 12 Steps and even the same addiction/issue based on their understanding and interpretation.

    All in all, I have to wonder how much of that is just an honest difference in how things are understood and how much is actually ego, authoritarianism and the like - which doing an inventory and such is supposed to address in the first place.
     
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  11. How did it go?
     
  12. Ed74

    Ed74 Fapstronaut

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    Honestly couldnt do it. I thought i could but those same resentments are still there. Im on day 5, doing cold showers and working out helps. i can use this forum as a community and im still in contact with an old sponsor so thats good. Maybe some day ill go back? Maybe not. Time will tell. Thanks for asking though.
     
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  13. I think it's both hard and needed. There's no guarantee that 12 Step has to be done in a cultish way, but it may be in the minority. I'm reading a book on addiction by a neuroscientist and he even said you don't have to throw out 12 Step even if you don't go with the disease model of addiction.

    Whether it's with the 12 Step framework or something else a community isn't built overnight. I think what may end up happening a lot even with people who do go is it's sort of non-committed joiners. It's not meant to find fault but qualified in terms of not being sure about the group and at the same time wanting to join something already formed and put together rather than kind of build it from the ground up. If nothing else one thing I wish is people would take more of an active role in the local business meetings. I know sometimes it may be a bit more formal than needed but people in a given meeting should shape how it is run.
     
  14. Ed74

    Ed74 Fapstronaut

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    I totally agree the 12 steps shouldnt be thrown out. Working the 12 steps saved my life. I did it for 4 years. Volunteered for positions, buisness meetings, sponsees, the whole bit. Been clean years after i quit going it definetely works. When i went before it was literally my last option. I wonder if thats what it will take with this.
     
  15. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut

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    I've enjoyed the meetings but my first attempt the steps was a failure. Sponsor wanted specific daily/weekly activities. 3-4 phone calls a day, 3 meetings a week, etc. With kids and wife and a new job I couldn't commit to that and he ended the sponsorship.

    I want to try again - but without those expectations or at least more realistic ones. I need help doing the steps, I have other people that are supporting me to stay sober
     

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