1984 v. Brave New World

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by FirefromAbove, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    Both books are vastly different and fall short slightly in their predictions (or plan as with Aldous Huxley, in their own way)

    Before I give my take, I will say I'm biased towards BNW, as when I finished reading it I looked across the room at a family member and saw that the whole intent of the book had been realized in our modern world.

    Brave New World accurately laid out the sterile technocracy we live in where sexual promiscuity is encouraged and the family unit has been completed destroyed. Genes determine your social worth and perpetual intoxication is normalized along with unmoral and inappropriate teachings of sex towards youths.

    Both books encapsulate the idea of a Kingdom of "Man" where instead a god being worshipped a figure is. One would need to not look further than beatification of Ford in BNM and twisting of capitalism and socialism.

    1984's Kingdom of Man is obvious, with the religious reverence of the revolution and deification of Big Brother.

    I personally feel that 1984 is overrated. As the image of an overbearing totalitarian regime, invites insurrection and no matter how brutal or efficient its methods, it will fall to a coup or revolution, thus is the cycle of life.

    But it did get right the mass sterilization of thought. The erasure of people, events, and news. I won't name what I'm referring to but a simple google search will reveal it.

    The mass surveillance and perpetual wars.
     
  2. Atticus

    Atticus Fapstronaut

    I find myself in agreement. Just one thing I'm unsure of,

    This part. "For your safety" is an exceptional way of controlling the fearful masses.

    However, nothing stays the same forever, thus are the rules of earth, so eventually it would change.

    The problem for any living through those times though: 20 years of tyranny is a long, long time.

    Like I said, I'm not in disagreement, just unsure how unrealistic Orwell would seem to those living in the dark ages, so to speak.
     
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  3. MindfulWarrior

    MindfulWarrior Fapstronaut

    Agreed, Huxley's book depicts better the world we live in or towards which we're moving, one which makes people themselves feel as though it is the best system, as if the "machine" cannot possibly fail, it has all the answers.

    One book I would recommend if you like this genre is "The Machine Stops" which I really liked, it's short and hard to find I think, but it is available in audio format on youtube.
     
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  4. MindfulWarrior

    MindfulWarrior Fapstronaut

    This is also very true. Control but "for our own good". I guess both had a good point.
     
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  5. gordie

    gordie Fapstronaut

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    I’m an Orwell fanatic through-and-through. His writings on socialism are even pretty good. The only one I don’t care for is Animal Farm and I don’t understand why it’s praised so much.

    A lot of 1984 isn’t speculation but observations of both a falling wartime society (see Homage to Catalonia, an amazing book) and Stalinist Russia. His idea of information erasure and historical revisionism came from when the socialists (his side) were losing the Spanish Civil War and it caused a total information breakdown.

    I think Huxley is more “predictive” because it’s simply more speculative, since it blends new technology with society’s urge for decadence and avoidance of pain/ pursuit of pleasure. In my memory, very little technology in 1984 was introduced, and it’s more about state apparatus as a means of control. I think this is why 1984 didn’t really overstep any totalitarian boundaries, whereas BNW probably won’t become so “true.” There’s no meat on the fat of 1984.

    I also don’t remember BNW as well. I’m enjoying these responses. Orwell is one of my heroes though.
     
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  6. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    And I'm sure it's relative to them because that's all the majority of the people in the novel know.

    “But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They needed only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it? And yet-!”

    My biggest gripe with the book is that Orwell's intention unsurprisingly has been abused by every political pundit and memetic shaman after him.

    Everything's Orwellian. Everything causes Orwell to turn in his grave. 1984 literally predicted this.

    If the above quote is true, it could easily be seen in our political party system. War with each other, not the people in charge.


     
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  7. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    That's his memoir on his time as a rebel correct?

    It's a very basic book and easy to grasp. That's why its given in classrooms. It's odd though, given that Highschool is the epitome of what the book was talking about.

    "We're all equal, but some more are more equal than others," it almost seems to blackpill you instead of enlightening you.

    I haven't read it in nearly 6 years doe.
     
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  8. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    I've heard of this book before. I'll give it a listen.
     
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  9. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    I meant to touch on that. Easily seen today.

    It's just a bit overbearing for me, but to get the point across the best, you must provide the most extreme example. Both books do that.
     
  10. Melkhiresa

    Melkhiresa Fapstronaut

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    unless there is some serious economical crisis or one lose the support of the armed force, it is extremely difficult for civilian to overthrow a totalitarian regime; only way especially today is outside action, guy like saddam was hated by the majority of his countryman but without outside influence he would likely have ruled for ever just like putin likely will.
    how has the family unit been destroyed? and genes were far more important in earlier period what with "good breeding" and importance of blood and lineage.
    i find this much more likely, a world state will never happen, nations will always compete for hegemony and people will always fight each other.
     
  11. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    In that case, Eastasia and Eurasia wouldn't hesitate to fund a revolution at some point. No doubt.

    The Brotherhood isn't real, that much is evident in the novel, but the ideas of the brotherhood could eventually infect the populace, and a real one the ones who hold power will be victims of the purge and the regime will change. The mass purges told of in the book, alluding to this being possible. Eventually, if not already happening actively in the background of the story.

    Public school. We send our children to school where they are essentially raised. Both parents are removed from a lot of the raising process and this is left up to the state. Loyal workers.

    I suggest you take a look at the soviets young pioneers for a good example.

    Perpetual wars and such are already happening.

    The idea of a world state is becoming more and more normalized and I believe it could take form in our lifetime. We have been exposed to many Alien Invasion movies in which the ending of the movies illustrates a One World GvT this is great propaganda and many people are growing accustomed to the idea.

    Just look at the youtube music festival using the terms, "World Community." There are other examples I can provide when I have the time to dig for them.
     
  12. Melkhiresa

    Melkhiresa Fapstronaut

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    what is your solution then, being homeschooled?
    Perpetual wars yes, this is what i was saying, in BNW it does not exist and with the rise of china and re-emergence of russia i don't see a world state happening anytime soon; while some people believe an european union integration is inevitable i don't see it happening, many of the country are just too powerful, have too much history and tribalism and even if somehow it did all that would cause is a new major rival for the US, there is a good reason why GB did everything they could in their history to prevent such an unification; as for africa or asia it is just not likely, they are too diverse.
    as they are in perpetual war without any serious fighting it is doubtful that such a revolution could occur unless somehow the armed force start wanting peace and forswore their vows, but even if it did and the novel make it clear that each superstate are too strong to be defeated and their police state make such a thing unlikely it would only result in them being turned in a puppet state or a Brest-Litovsk kind of peace deal.
    Lenin himself admitted that even with the economical crisis without the decisions to enter the ruinous war the revolution would not have been possible.
     
  13. Atticus

    Atticus Fapstronaut

    Thread came to mind when I saw this,

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. TheWigglesSentToSpace

    TheWigglesSentToSpace Fapstronaut

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    Both are happening right now. Brave New World... that is the wanton pursuit of pleasure to makes us feel good and numb us to our problems in life, leads to totalitarianism.
     
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  15. Don't miss Zamjatin glass buildings and Eggers social media "The Circle".
     
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  16. Atticus

    Atticus Fapstronaut

    Checked and put on my book list. Thanks, friend.
     
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  17. BNW is better, but 1984 spot a lot of interesting things like how the state work to change the history, how the New Speak can be remuld the brain and limit it, ecc..Huxley said that 1984 was probable for Totalitarism, but the future is live like in a golden jail like BNW, so people will never revolt because they are passive. But Orwell itself gived golden ideas for a BNW system...Just watch our vicious society and if you tell avout porn dangers they answer "But i like" "Ahahaha Bullshit".
     
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  18. FirefromAbove

    FirefromAbove Fapstronaut

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    Brave New World is here :):):):)
     
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  19. Sorry i miss the recently "The Warehouse" despite i didn 't read it and can 't give a judge...is based in an Amazon distopy or something like that...
     
  20. vikingsarehere

    vikingsarehere Fapstronaut

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    Was just going to mention Yevgeny Zamyatin but En?gma beat me to it.

    The brave new world elements we live in are only a precursor to the more Orwellian world we will live in.

    Pretty soon, as supply chains become more compromised, and weather manipulation hits its maximum, and the money supply continues to inflate you will understand what Orwell was talking about, and you will move into a scarcity world. Like Frank Zappa once said: “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”

    Anyone seeing the quarantine daily walk of people entering Canada or the new Australian rules can already see a glimpse of that Orwellian world.

    Unfortunately that Orwellian world will be only a precursor to a world completely controlled by the "tribe" which will conduct human ritualistic sacrifice openly for non tribe members who will accept it as the norm.

    Doomsday gauge = Off the top!! :D
     

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