3 conclusions about the creator (God)

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. SuperPowers

    SuperPowers Fapstronaut

    Mortality is the only thing giving this life value, however I believe we never die, this is just a learning ground, its not right to think you will be killed off by God or go to hell, this is bullshit in my opinion, and as for heaven, you won't like it. You'll get sick of it, we need duality and that's what this life offers. This life can be good if you live it right and some people live it joyfully.

    Anyhow, Christianity is too cheap of a way to heaven, in my opinion it just couldn't be. Find consciousness instead and see where that path takes you. You're too much living in the future, in heaven, yet heaven and hell are both places on earth, or states of living. You make your own heaven and you make your own hell, its your doing. How about this life? This life is what's important, not the next one because we don't know with certainty, we only have this moment. The book all you guys need to read is the power of now, read it every year.

  2. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Doesn't matter. The point isn't whether or not someone's mind is changed. The point is whether or not the claim of objective right/wrong is actually true. And without God, there is no objective morality. Period.

    Originally, yes, the conscience was put there by God. He has "written his law on the hearts" of all mankind. So no one really has "a different conscience". When people are committing acts that violate the moral code, they usually understand that what they're doing is wrong. But people can reject the moral code and "harden their hearts" so they can continue to commit evil or selfish acts without a pesky conscience getting in the way.

    Well, unfortunately that's the reality of God. He's perfect and holy. By his very nature, nothing unholy can be in his manifest presence. The only reason Christians are able to go to heaven is because their sins are forgiven and washed away--they are declared holy by God so that they can be in his presence in eternity. When someone goes to hell, it isn't because God is punishing them. They go to hell because they rejected the death of Christ that washes away their sins. Since they're still in their sins, they cannot exist with a holy God in eternity. That's just how it works--at least, that's how the Bible says it works. Of course you're free to accept or reject that at your own will.
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    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; -1 Timothy 4:1-2

    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    -Romans 22:32

    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. -John 3:19-21

    Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. -1 Timothy 1:4-7

    For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
    For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
    -1 Corinthians 1:18-31

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  5. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

    The whole idea of a moral fact makes no sense though. Like saying something like "stealing is wrong"... how do I go about testing the truth or falsehood of such a statement? It's not something that you can test for and determine whether or not it's true. How is God's morality anything but subjective though? Isn't God a subject just like other entities, with His own opinions on things?

    No they don't. People can kill and steal and do other immoral things and not feel bad about it. It isn't clear to me that everyone has the sane conscience... other examples are the fact that people naturally have different opinions on abortion, whether being gay is right or wrong, the death penalty etc. So this universal moral sense doesn't seem to be so obvious or universal

    Or they could just naturally have a different conscience than other people.

    So why wasn't Satan immediately locked out of heaven when he had his first thought of challenging God's authority? Why was there a fight with God, who BTW is supposed to be all-powerful instead of him being kicked out of heaven right away when He had his first inclination towards sin?

    Really? Because I was taught that God had an obligation to punish sinners or else he wouldn't be just.

    Other Christians have a different take on that and they use the Bible as their source as well, so I don't know who to believe

    How am I supposed to accept or reject something that I can't even verify is true to begin with?
  6. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Sinners are only punished in the sense that they reap the consequences of their own actions. The Bible is clear that God loves every person and would prefer that none perish, but many perish because of their own rejection of Jesus. It isn't God's responsibility to rescue people who refuse to acknowledge their own sin.

    They're wrong.

    You accept many things that you can't verify are true.

    You accept that the moon isn't made of cheese. You didn't verify that.
    You accept that murder is morally wrong. You can't verify if that's actually true, since other people have "different consciences" about murder.
    You accept that the universe is expanding, even though you're not an astrophysicist.
    You accept that Syria is a country, even though you've never personally seen it.

    If you forced all of your 'knowledge' to meet the same strict standards of proof that you place on religion, you'd have to be content knowing almost nothing about anything.
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  7. SuperPowers

    SuperPowers Fapstronaut

    The bible cannot be trusted or relied upon, it is full of errors and contradictions. The bible was created by evil man and Christians were responsible for the most inhuman evil acts ever known in human history. You can't cherry-pick the quotes you like and disregard the ones you don't like. If there is one error in a book we need to question the whole book, and the bible is "full of it". Lets not even start with the childish fairy tales, people believe that because they are so desperate and so fearful and their brains are so brainwashed. I feel sorry for you man, who's in darkness, not me, my angels are still contacting me on a daily basis, I've had 1111 again, 111 two times, and 911 and 311, oh my gosh, I knew intuatively they were angel numbers but my brain siad no. Then yesterday on youtube it suggested 911 and just now I thought I better check if 311 is anything and what do you know, it is :)

    You said these angels are evil and darkness, well in my opinion its "probably" more likely that Christianity is an evil satan more than it is God, there is no change its from God, I've given you clear 100% evidence why it's not, yet, it will go right passed you because of brainwashing and how the brain works. Without Christianity, you would be lost, broken, why? Are you really craving heaven so much? I honestly don't think its that, I think its fear, and I think you need help, we all do, you're not being present. All we have is this moment and you're living some fantasy of heaven when you die. Nobody wants to die, unless you're suicidal and I've been there, but we all will die, face it, and life more than likely will go on and has absolutely NOTHING to do with accepting Jesus as God, or that you are a sinner, yes you are a sinner according to Christianity, but sin does not mean bad. As a Christian, you're going to hell for eternity for sleeping in and being lazy and working on Sunday, there is no sin, and what is good and bad is relative and subjective, you're right.

    And the Bible, you got to be joking me, lets start from the start, the world wasn't created in 6 days 2000 years ago. Mate, you're so way off but I wish you all the best and I hope you can overcome your fear. Just know that all you need is within you. God is within you. Regardless, it applies to an atheist, I'm more of a spiritually inclined Agnostic Theist. Actually you know what, I pretty much have evidence that there is more to this life than this life an death, I've thanked my angels. You know what, I'm not even agnostic theist any more, I just don't know what God is, actually I do, it's Jesus. As a Muslim what God is, ad I have on this site, and they have no idea. I'm just saying there is a creator, I dismiss this Chirstian or Muslim or Jewish one God, God is fragmented it millions of pieces and God doesn't even know itself, its trying to know itself. In you're eye's I'm going to hell, what a load of rubbish. You know I should really take offense by that but I'm over what people think, that's just mind, I'm beyond that, I know you mean no harm, maybe you're jealous, fearful, need validation or just wanna help, but what type of pathetic God would send me to hell for something so pathetic.

    Here's 100% unquestionable evidence Christianity is a lie. Do your own googles, "Errors and contradictions of the Bible"


    A book (nice title, haven't read it)


    Some bible quotes

    "You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. . . . The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head. Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35

    She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel 23:20 NIV

      • Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
      • Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27

      • All that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you. Leviticus 9:10
      • Thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother's milk. Exodus 23:19

      • When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20
      • When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

      • No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. Deuteronomy 23:1 NRSV
      • Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookback, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken ... He shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries. Leviticus 21:17-23 KJV



    4. Sex slavery condoned: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again."
    Exodus 21: 7-8

    6. Cannibalism: "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)

    7. If your genitals have been damaged, stay out of church: "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1)

    8. Incest and getting drunk with dad is no problem if the world is running thin on suitable DNA donors: And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36]

    9. Looking at a woman with desire is akin to adultery: "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

    10. But incestuous rape is cool: And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [II Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [II Kings 13:14]

    11. Pray in private, and if you do so in church, do so quietly: Matt 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others."

    12. If you offend God he will kill you: "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." (Genesis 38:7-10)

    13. God smites women, children and often animals with equal gusto, he seems to equal evil and wrong doing by association, rather than by being guilty of the personal, individual act: "Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

    14. Rev 21: 8 "liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Eternal damnation for lying? In South Africa murderers and rapists often get released for good behaviur, lying is politics.

    And speaking of lying, the bible ends with one. It calls its message 'the good news' and concludes, "I am coming soon." Wrong on the 'soon' bit, and unless we've missed something, no one has come. But I get it, if 2000 years pass, soon after such a length of time must be VERY soon. If 10 000 years pass, soon must be very VERY soon.


    Sorry, but Christianity needs to die, its 2019 guys, come on, and you keep spreading these evil lies that were "siners" whatever than means, and were going to hell for sleeping in or working on Sunday, man I wouldn't have a job not working Sundays, and I slept in this morning, that's my suffering, but I should not go to heaven for it, fuck you to the person who created this filth. You pretty much cannot escape sin, its literally not possible for any human being, unless of course you submit to the control system, then you are saved.

    Come on, sin, sin according to Christianity is our human nature. Everything is sin, they created sin, if you're human you cannot escape sin and therefore cannot escape Christianity, at least not back in those days, or else!

    What is the significance of accepting Jesus? Why should I? Tell me why should I? Because its written in a book? I can't believe those stories, and again, it's ful of it, just look at that one link I provided, google is filled with links.

    That's rediculous.

    Wow, just wow. See, to me, and most normal people with an ounce of sanity would know murder is wrong.

    Abuse, physical, psychological, intentionally harming people, that's about the only evil in the world. I'm not going to use the word sin because that's a Christian term to describe anything against the rules of the control system.

    Then there is stealing. Putting other people lives at threat on the road, there really isnt much more that is wrong.

    Now a psychopath serial killer, what can God do with them, I don't know, but God allowed that to happen. Why, to test him? He killed once, lets test him, killed again, lets test him, killed 10 times, lets test him, killed 20 times, lets test him, and some are free men. They can't control themselves and lack empathy, God made them that way, do you punish or do you give them understanding? I say the later. There is such thing as a lust to kill, and they cannot control themself, its like a sexual urge, only to kill, and you know what its like to not be able to control yourself from porn and fapping, will for them its killing, they have to do it.

    Nah, he wouldn't know either way, neither do I.

    Well it may not be, not until you go there, but you have no idea what I'm talking about.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  8. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Because he is the key to a life of fulfillment that you couldn't possibly comprehend. And because if you don't, you'll live in eternal torment. Not because it's "written in a book," but because it is true. But if you'd prefer to reject Jesus just to see if you're right, knock yourself out. The cost seems unbelievably severe, though.

    You could at least spell it right.

    My comments weren't for you. I was responding to @Brokenman123 who said people have different consciences.

    If I refuse to give drugs to an addict, he will experience physical and psychological pain. And I will have done it intentionally. Does that make me evil?

    See, that shows that you have a flimsy view of truth. Syria is a country regardless of whether or not I see it. Just like Jesus is Lord regardless of what you think about it.
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  9. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    For the record, I love when people say "Christianity is false" and then proceed to list dozens of Jewish laws from the old testament. That ain't Christianity.
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  10. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

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  11. Hold it in

    Hold it in Fapstronaut

    Well for me it was conviction of the holy spirit that drew me up unto God. Proof or no proof is irrelevant, because the whole Idea of God cannot be proven. It's why at least in my faith we have to walk by faith and not sight
  12. SuperPowers

    SuperPowers Fapstronaut

    HAHAHA LOL :D:D:D:cool::cool:

    HAHAHAHA spelling? That's the best you can do?

    Do you know how to read and comprehend basic English?

    LOL, go back to sleep.

    ;) Yeah good one, that's not christinaity, God created the earth in 6 days 2000 years ago and then rested on day 7 because he was tired. There is no way all those errors and contradictions are not Christianity.
  13. SuperPowers

    SuperPowers Fapstronaut

    I'm not going to sit here and argue with you guys, I've heard enough, but while I'm here, why Christianity, why not Islam? Judaism? Of course YOUR religion is the right one, the one you were born into.

    Again, you're not reading the OP. God is a construct of religion. Only religion can define it, and you can either accept it of reject it, and you're scared shitless Superfan, it was designed that way. Anyway, I give up, its fine. In the end it doesn't matter, you live in fear, I don't, you have the mind of a child in my opinion (superfan) and I don't. I can't believe what I'm reading from Superfan. I'm done. Over and out. Bye. Enjoy your word of God :D and thank you for making me even more certain.
  14. SuperPowers

    SuperPowers Fapstronaut

  15. Hold it in

    Hold it in Fapstronaut

    I don't live in fear. But way to go showing how much you don't care I guess
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  16. SuperPowers

    SuperPowers Fapstronaut

    I came here to remove that dam post, because I don't need to argue with you and its kind of negative. Now you hooked me into this and triggered my ego into wanting to win. I'm only human, if you're going to fight me with religion I'm going to fight back. I don't want to be debunking Christianity but on the other hand its 2019 and it must die. Religion is the worlds biggest problem. We need spirituality, oneness, not fear, ego and separation. Work your life out, now! Close the Bible and get to work!
  17. Hold it in

    Hold it in Fapstronaut

    First of all I was only speaking for myself. You took what I said as some kind of condemnation of your opinion. It wasn't, Second you're bossy. I'll do whatever I feel like. Fine by me if you don't believe in whatever dude
  18. MuscularSherlockHolmes

    MuscularSherlockHolmes Fapstronaut

    1. There is a God.
    2. There is no such thing as God.
    3. There may be some thing as God.
  19. vxlccm

    vxlccm Fapstronaut

    Well said! That's what I tried to meant before, as it were. You did a nicer job of it, though :)

    Hey, I think you're doing a mostly admirable job of stating your perspective. It's not easy to feel like you're not being heard, but creating agreement isn't the same thing as just knowing you stated your case. I'm hearing you just fine, for sure. Without agreeing on much, but it's still good to have you here and talking as compared no one with your perspective speaking up.

    This seems to be the overcommon trend of modern thought being inflicted upon the world from France, Scandinavia, and so forth. What's missing is any respect for not just historical fact that nearly all humans who ever existed worked hard to come closer to God, but also that beyond a supermajority of people alive on the planet today also believe in God. Many more than that believe in spiritual things, and life after death, and put in effort to draw closer to that Creator and/or cosmic energy.

    Then, back to religion being a problem. Well, sure. There are cases of problems with religion, but it's not the truth at all that CURRENTLY, right now in 2019, that any massive holy world wars are happening in the name of religion. Not all religions are equal, either. Extremist Muslim terrorism is a singular problem, there is no corollary at anything close to a similar scale with any other religion.

    Violence in the modern world is caused by governments, evil State actors, not religions at all. And that is very easily provable since the Industrial era, and certainly since WWI as well. Civil wars and genocides and starvations all bring about mankind-caused deaths, and those were actions of governments and dictatorships. And, don't tell me Hitler invoked the idea of God in his speeches; everyone knows that was no actual religion. In point of fact, most atrocities that had any factor of religion in them were committed AGAINST certain religions. Mostly Christians, by the way. The Jews of course got it bad in WWII, but there's many more examples than just one holocaust of massive slaughters of Christians all over the world.

    Mostly, once you shelve the supposed and untrue violence of religion, you will find that the primary objection to religion is just that it exists, and that they have money. Which is a lie against freedom. If a bunch of people want to give money to a church, let them. That's what free societies have the freedom to do. Now, if you wanted to tax it then that's a separate argument. But, not liking religion and trying to abolish it just makes the agnostic into anti-theists with their own religious holy war causes, willing to abandon liberties to foist their ideas on others. Which is very very wrong.

    Interesting nearly contradictory statements there. Nothing brings a man closer to God than the Word, much of which is recorded in the Bible.

    If you don't want to use the Bible to be spiritual, then you will get a certain distance with that. It sounds like you have a Humanistic view of service to others which is admirable. Any other elements to a spiritual practice that you sanction in order to maximize your spirituality? Are there other trappings of your spirituality like serving others, that benefit mankind?

    The main difference between humanism perspectives, even ignoring the often hedonistic tendencies, and the Judaeo-Christian and Muslim perspectives is that we all believe in an afterlife, and that your station hereafter is determined by reconciliation with God. Israelites had blood sacrifice, and Christians believe in repentance on the merits of Jesus' sacrifice. So, it's a longer view into the future than the myopic moral view of only looking at the present moment. I mean, it's great to want to do good things here and now, but also recognizing sin and getting to know the God to whom we can return, that's a lot more perspective.
  20. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

    As a Jew, I thought that was hilarious too. I also rolled my eyes because those quotes are part of a group of regular quotes taken to supposedly show the old testament is immoral.

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