Good points, @hermitthefrog! I think I agree with the gist of what you're saying here and I think my statement "fantasizing is unacceptable" was way too vague. You're right that we cannot control which thoughts COME IN to our heads. So, in the case of erotic dreams and nocturnal emissions we have no control over that. I would definitely not consider that a relapse or even a failure of any kind. I ALSO agree that if you see an attractive person (or even for almost no reason at all) a fantasy could pop into your brain. I've definitely experienced this and, I agree, there's nothing you can do to stop this from happening. I wouldn't consider that a slip. You're right, that's normal, healthy, and part of having a sex drive. The point I'm making by saying "fantasizing is unacceptable" comes from my own experience and was really directed AT ME specifically (sometimes my writing on here is unclear because I'm sort of journaling at the same time....so sometimes my words are actually meant to be addressed to myself). The point I'm making to myself addresses 2 scenarios: 1) The first case is where I see something/someone that turns me on OR my brain just decides to produce a fantasy because chemically I'm craving sex. In this case, while I didn't choose to produce the fantasy, I CAN choose where I give my ATTENTION and how I RESPOND to that fantasy. A healthy response (I believe) would be to appreciate the beauty, appreciate the sexual feelings and drive, remind myself that now is not the time for sex (that is, unless the person is my wife and we're at home! haha!), and choose to return my attention to my present moment and the responsibilities in front of me. The UNHEALTHY response (and again this is simply coming from my personal experience) is to set my attention on this fantasy, let it build sexual tension and feelings of discontent, let myself feel that I NEED a sexual experience right now, and leave the present moment with its responsibilities. I found this response (if it doesn't lead to complete relapse) will typically make nofap very difficult. 2) The second case is when I'm struggling with urges and temptations to look at porn and I DECIDE to fabricate a sexual fantasy in my mind. Just creating imaginations in my mind can make me feel some level of dopamine rush and lightly "scratches the itch" for porn. It's kind of like edging but only in your mind. I used to excuse this because it wasn't technically looking at P or Ming. However, in practice I've found this only makes things worse. It's like being on a diet and choosing to think about cake and donuts all day. Not technically breaking the diet, but really not helping you achieve your goal. Furthermore, it continues to support the CRAVING for porn, even if you aren't acting on those fantasies. Those are my experiences anyway. I believe each person thinks and functions a bit different, so probably each of us has to decide what we will and won't tolerate. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I really believe that discussing these particulars is really helpful for all of us. Life tends to be way more nuanced and complicated than we want it to be. These types of discussions really help bring clarity (or at least help us learn how to THINK in ways that bring clarity). I'm interested to hear any response you might have to my thoughts here!