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A Question for Christians...

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. Maritn

    Maritn Fapstronaut

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    Hello, my name is Martin, and I am an Orthodox Jew. So - I believe in god and the Old Testamite, - However the 'New Testamite' I do not. Please note that I intend the following in the most respectful way. My question is - What 'proofs' or 'lines of reasoning' do Christians use/have that explains the validity of the New Testamite?
    I understand that by nature - this is a heavy topic, and will cause controversy being that this topic is inherently emotional. Thank you for your posts. Thank you for your respect.
     
    Julijus likes this.
  2. Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2017
  3. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    ^^^ this.

    The Old Testament prophesies about Messiah are abundant and impossible to miss. Hundreds of years before Christ, it was prophesied that the Messiah:

    - would come from the line of David
    - would be born in Bethlehem
    - would be raised in Nazareth
    - would be born of a virgin
    - would be the Passover lamb
    - would be known as God's son
    - he would suffer and be pierced
    - he would be betrayed by a close friend for 30 pieces of silver
    - that silver would later be used to buy a field
    - he would have a ministry of miracles
    - he would ride in on a donkey
    - he would be preceded by a messenger
    - he would be resurrected
    - he would usher in a new covenant

    Every single one of these was fulfilled in Christ. When I see strong Orthodox Jews who understand these prophesies and are still waiting for someone other than Christ, I just have to shake my head (respectfully).
     
  4. Maritn

    Maritn Fapstronaut

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    How do we know that all of these requirements were actually fulfilled and
    That is a very interesting thought. I have never heard this argument before. Thank you for the 'respectful' shake of the head. However, there's a few things do not make sense to me. How do we know that the requirements you listed for the Messiah actually occurred - as opposed to the events not actually occurring, and being made up by man to fit the requirements of the old Testamite. An example of this taking place (which can both agree) is in the case of Islam, where over a billion people believe the prophet Muhammad split the moon! How are we to be sure that the story of Christ occurred as the New Testamite states it unfolded?
     
  5. HappyDaysAreHereAgain

    HappyDaysAreHereAgain Fapstronaut

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    @Maritn , when you read the Old Testamite, you sense the truth that is there. Have you considered reading the New Testamite. Jesus was a Jew and did a good job of teaching and demonstrating basic Jewish values. I am personally impressed by the connections between the two collections. It does not take long to read the first 4 books, the Gospel accounts.
     
  6. Maritn

    Maritn Fapstronaut

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    I fully understand the principle of reading a piece of text and seeing truth in the words. However for me personally, that cannot be enough to consider something as divine. For me, in order to be considered divine it must be supported by something external (For example an ancient artifact, or a line of reasoning ect.) Because otherwise, someone who truly connects on an emotional level to a completely man-made text such as Shakespeare, has equal grounds to say that Shakespeare was divinely inspired.
     
  7. Septimus

    Septimus Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for the interesting question.

    First, I think one has to admit that first and last, this all involves an act of faith. While the Christian Faith is certainly reasonable, and can be analyzed and penetrated with the intellect -- and yes, there are "proofs" involved -- even so, there still remains a dimension of faith.

    Second, for me the most powerful "proof" is Jesus himself, as the Christian Faith presents him, both from what is handed down from the first Christians in oral tradition, and what is written down in the New Testament. Let me put it this way: if Jesus is not essentially who he is presented as being, then someone invented him. And if the latter is the case, that, too, needs explaining.

    Third, is the fact that Jesus and his miracles, his teachings, and above all, his death and resurrection, were events that happened virtually simultaneously with their being reported to people. That is to say, when the first Christians began spreading out and telling people about Jesus, they did so within months and years of the amazing events they described. This means that anyone who heard them talk about Jesus was in a position to say, "no, none of those claims are true."

    Let me give you a concrete example. About 25 years ago, I lived in Washington, D.C. If someone along and started making claims about miraculous events that happened where I lived, I -- and thousands of other people -- could rebut those claims, because we were there. Similarly, the claims the Apostles and early Christians made were also subject to rebuttal.

    That leads to the fourth thing that I find convincing: the credibility of Christianity doesn't just rest on Jesus, but also on all the early witnesses. Why would they claim to see Jesus risen from the dead? Why would they die for those claims? Were all these witnesses crazy? People aren't usually persuaded by crazy people, but the Apostles persuaded a LOT of people. If they lied, why would they suffer terrible deaths for a lie?
     
  8. Jehu2077

    Jehu2077 Fapstronaut

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    Because who would cook up such an unbelievable story, go into poverty proclaiming it, and die for preaching it?
    12 madmen who had the same hallucinations about their dead friend and then convinced thousands of the same? To me that takes a lot more faith to believe than the alternative.
    In all seriousness, that's a big reason for my own faith besides the history, prophecies, and my own personal experiences. It's all those together that cause me to believe and call myself a Disciple of Christ.
     
    LavaMe and Deleted Account like this.
  9. HappyDaysAreHereAgain

    HappyDaysAreHereAgain Fapstronaut

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    @Maritn
    There are numerous books on Christian apologetics, such as:
    https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Chr...rd_wg=c5h4R&psc=1&refRID=1QRJV4RCM820Q4N279G1
    And, one that I have used more is:
    https://www.amazon.com/New-Evidence...dence+that+demands+a+verdict+by+josh+mcdowell
    For a report of discoveries from the text by a lawyer-journalist-atheist, you could try:
    https://www.amazon.com/Case-Christ-...rd_wg=TIJYw&psc=1&refRID=NMSQW8H4SXXRC5WR06DE
    There is no book that has been more read or studied more deeply than the Bible. There is also probably no book that has been more misrepresented. Short sections have been pulled out of their contexts to prove everything. If you discover nothing else in the text, you will discover amazing literature and various mysteries. It is not a book for non-thinkers with no sense of wonder.
     
  10. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    That's a totally fair question. You have to look at it analytically:

    First, consider the cost of the people who promoted the message of Christ. They were against incredible opposition. Like @Jehu2077 said, each of the 12 apostles experienced serious persecution and martyrdom for their faith. The only reasonable explanation for this behavior is if they 100% believed what they were claiming.

    Secondly, all of the events where prophesy was fulfilled were witnessed by several (and sometimes hundreds) of people. Lies would have been easily squashed by eyewitnesses who could have said, "no, that's not what happened". Remember--the Jews were basically looking for any reason whatsoever to dismiss Christ as the Messiah.

    ^^ exactly.

    In the end, it's my hope that all Jews would embrace Jesus as the Messiah. He is the ultimate reality, the ultimate truth that all of the law and prophets point toward.
     
  11. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

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    @Maritn There's a pretty cool course on God and Jesus called Alpha, which is designed to help people explore the questions you're asking. They happen in all over the world and probably in your city - it might be worth looking into!
     
  12. Julijus

    Julijus Fapstronaut

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    Hey Maritn you have started very interseting topic.
    Let me present my story with faith.
    I didnt belive in God at all, because i was always searching for solid proofs and there were many things that didnt make sense (like wars and hunger). But after hitting the bottom i turned to God and i found a friend who is alway there for me - Jesus. Im very proud that i trusted him because he is changing me in so many ways.

    What am i trying to say here, if you had all the evidence that New testiment is real would still be called FAITH?
     

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