About Christians

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    I'm new here and I'm surprised with all the God talk actually.

    Simple question: Are you aware that the biggest porn users being Christians, or rather being religious people is a well documented phenomenon?

    Idk, I'm just confused. It's a big deal. But it doesn't seem like anyone here has any clue about it.

    I don't know how to go about moving forward, helping people on this site now. Should I just ignore Christians?
     
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  2. I don't really understand what you're saying, but Christianity is a very common religion and everyone has their problems. I'm sure that there are plenty of Christians who smoke but that doesn't make it right for them or right for you not to help them (but do whatever you want).
     
  3. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Why is it wrong of me not to help a Christian to stop smoking but simultaniously ok for you if I don't? I know the answer vaguely, I just would like you to clarify. (The Bible does not say "It's ok to smoke" though, as far as I know, I hope you thus see the error in your argument)

    Are you a Christian?

    Maybe I'm not saying much at all. Maybe you should just be sure that I'm definitely asking a simple unanswered question. So far I'd say I've done a pretty good job of identifying it of the class of unanswered question.

    The rest is just about how I can't predict people's views based on what things look like to me on a forum in 3 days. If that's more clear, I'm just trying to add a disclaimer. Just trying to be humble here man.
     
  4. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Wait a minute didn't I just say that this is not the case? Christianity encourages the suppression of sexual urges. People that do this, every single one with internet access, becomes a porn addict. No and if or buts. This is a fact.
     
  5. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    It is kind of confusing but all of us have the same battles for different reasons. I am a Christian and I am struggling with this; of course, that's the reason that I'm on here. We are supposed to live chaste lives but even when God is involved, we are still vulnerable to our weaknesses at times. And why? Because being a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, or Atheist, we have a lot of things in common, and the greatest of these commonalities is that we all have our weaknesses. In Christianity, it is not about sexual suppression, but sexual discipline. That's a better term for it and I, like others, admit that I am doing poorly. But disciplined is learned, not inherently installed, and we must go about our ways of learning how we are to obtain discipline, and also implied, the wisdom that stems from this discipline. If it is the case that most of whom are struggling with this issue are Christians, and if it is a matter that most are trying to repent from masturbation/pornography, then indeed it is a matter of undisciplined wanton vs the moral standards of the proper sexual life that we perceive to be so.
    I would be careful when it comes to listening to some Christians though, as there are some who are unsympathetic towards the sexual struggles of us men, and rather than proper guidance, they have a callous approach to our situation. That for me, is the true problem. But if you have any friends that are Christians and you know that they will help you, and if that's the direction that you want to go, then by all means, see them and ask for guidance.
     
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  6. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your intelligent, informed and understanding answer, Singleindividual ;)

    I have talked to some Christians about it. I'm seeing a good Christian friend today for MMA and Krav Maga self-defence training. We will not be meek haha. So yeah there are a lot of good people out there that happen to be Christian. Christianity is interesting to me, but being a Christian means nothing to me and says nothing about a person I believe. So I don't judge them any more I'd judge by the color of a person's skin.

    I think sex is dangerous, I don't have a problem with casual sex but I do have a problem with casual relationships,
    you're just asking to get burned. I've had both and also been in a serious relationship. It all just kind of ruined my life.
    Except for the casual sex and some of my early normal relationships.

    I'm not sure what moral effort I want to make moving forward, I kind of don't want to ever be in a relationship again.
    But I'm kinda lonely. I'm conflicted. But I maintain that sex is natural, like the weird dreams you have at night,
    it does not adhere to any morality. It's your reaction to it that makes it immoral.
     
  7. RightLane

    RightLane Fapstronaut

    I'm a Christian. I am addicted to PMO.

    I think many Christians think that those two sentences contradict, and the truth is they should, but often they don't. Both true of me.

    I don't see why you would ignore us, since the reason we are here is the same as the reason any atheist or Buddhist or Muslim is here. We want to stop just as much as anyone else. Ignore conceited pricks, but do that whether they are Christian or not. Also, trust that NoFap has rooted out the pricks; they actually do a wonderful job with that.

    Finally, I don't know how true it is that most porn users are Christians. I am not denying, I just simply don't know. I didn't find a solid answer when I googled it, but it might be true. I think a possible reason for that is those of us who are abstaining, or trying to abstain, from PM are not having casual sex on the side. I think that having sex helps not PM in many cases. I know stories on NoFap where people have abstained from PM because they found a girlfriend they were having sex with. Christians aren't having casual sex, so the only thing we do is porn, and, therefore, a lot of it.

    Just thoughts. Fight on brother.
     
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  8. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    I do not know what you're specifically going through to a certain extent that makes you want to say that "sex is dangerous" and yet "casual sex is okay". Despite never having been in a personal relationship in my life, I understand though what you're say though about relationships. It seems like you've had a tough time with it and not much luck either. As Journey says "Love hurts" but on the other hand, I would seriously reconsider my thoughts if such incidences were to make me think about never having a relationship again. You may have had a bad run and maybe it's you, maybe it was her, I don't know. Nevertheless, there is such thing as a time when one lets their wounds heal before going back out into the world, and try again.
    I do wish to warn you though about casual sex. I feel like if one were to approach casual sex is in such a manner as what I've been reading from your post, perhaps then it's a way of filling in the void. Is it just that during those times you had casual sex, those were good in comparison to all the other things? I can understand that. But don't give up. There's someone out there for you and they may just be right around the corner. Don't throw in the chips! Life's full of moments to play another hand!
     
  9. I don't think I understand fully. I thought you were saying that it is a bad thing for so many religious followers to have this problem even though their religion is against it, but I guess not. I'm just not gonna say anymore because I have no idea what this thread is about. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
     
  10. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Initially when you responded I wasn't trying to say something, asking a question can imply things. But stop not answering the question I ask and insisting in some confused, vague way that I'm saying some obscure negative thing. Ask me a question to clarify. You fully have my sympathy if you aren't sure. Also thank you for the apology. It's real considerate of you but forgive me, you're ignoring my question.
     
  11. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Sex binds two people together. That can be dangerous, making love is dangerous, yet the act of sex does not have to be dangerous. I get the filling the void point you're making. Sex is ultimately healthy imo, getting sex for a man is not the easiest thing in the world. It takes work, men are motivated by the imago of women to become better. My imago of women is damaged. Yeah, my soul is fractured. It's not games we're playing here. A bit of it is my fault, hers most deffinitely as well. Second last girl I was with was just a bitch in the end, I was trying to heal from my last relationship trauma. I completely blame myself for it, I knew better. But I completely forgot about her after Miss-second-last hurt me and could only think dark things about Miss-third-last. The last girl I was with was/is a complete sweetheart. We dated for a month and we just decided we didn't match, clean break, I initiated. Never fucked her. So yeah lesson learned...

    I still feel ashamed about the third last girl. She REALLY hurt me and then I REALLY hurt her. It's been 3 years now. I guess in a nutshell I feel like if I went out and fucked a bunch of girls, I'd like women a fair bit more than I do now. I had skills with women untill she hurt me. Idk, dm me if you want the full story.
     
  12. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    I think, right now, is a most appropriate time for self-reflection and one's relationship with others, of the past and present, and perhaps along with the two, those of the plausible future. Reverse the pain you feel to where it gives way to inward reflection, and it is there my friend that perhaps you may see not only the mistakes you've made, but the hidden answers that can help you in the future. It takes time and discipline to do this (I am still learning to do so myself), but it is with this discipline that I believe that one strengthens himself inwardly, and once that happens, there is confidence to recommit again to someone who might just come along in your life and might be interested with you.
    But the main problem is, I think, a sense of self-disconnection brought about by this incident that you're feeling. You've had it bad and so, self-disconnection and animosity plays a huge part, but try what I've just said, and healing will come.
     
  13. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    Christians are not on the website because we are the biggest porn users, we are on this website because using porn doesn't agree with our faith.

    Why would you do that?
     
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  14. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    Welcome :)

    I do not understand how the next two quotes fit together.
    If it is true that Christians form the biggest group of porn users, then wouldn't you expect them to be over-represented here too?

    We cannot answer that. Focus on your own recovery. I'm an atheist but I find some of the Christians here post really insightful stuff, even when they are being explicitly religious. So it would be silly for me to ignore them. But I tend to ignore the Off Topic section as I find the attitudes of most people there frustrating. You need to decide if the Christian posts help you or annoy you and then you can decide what to do about them.

    N.B. Depending on which part of the forum they are on you could also report them, as it is breaking the posting rules:
    (Though I have never really understood why we have that rule.)
     
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  15. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Idk man, if you're not an anti-gay christian you're alright. If you are anti-gay cause the bible says so, then you are also highly likely to be pro-sex-shaming for the same reason. IME that's just how it works. I've just read at multiple places on the internet that Christians use more porn - because they deal with more shame. I think the better question to ask is if Christians deal with more shame regarding their sexuality than Athiests. My argument in a nutshell - yes. Feel free to change my mind. No really.

    Natural things should be left alone to be natural. Homosexuality is also in fact natural, it's everywhere in nature. "And they were not ashamed" - Genesis. Then they ate that fruit and the problem of shame came into the equation. The bible is implying "We've got a new problem to solve".

    Read the first 3 chapters of Aion by C.G. Jung, if you truly WANT to know where my spiritual understanding on the matter starts. Especially the 3rd chapter. It's about 40 pages, extremely dense with information though.
    It's because of Jordan Peterson that I gave Jung a chance- and also why I respect and value religious thinking in the first place. Keep in mind simple rules and "say-so" do not equate to religious thinking. My approach personally is to be anti-exclusive with the goal of developing awareness.

    I would also like to allow these middle ground videos set the tone I resonate with.


    I'm trying to be as clear in my thinking as I can. I apologise for the lack of references for my argument, I have found a few great websites that argue my case with plenty of references, mainly of the bible, but meh mostly "say-so" stuff, I think it's likely there's a better counter argument in there too honestly. It's a strange book even if I don't know it as well.

    So if you are going to argue against my point I am expecting you to reference the bible directly. That's the whole reason why I started this thread. I have no real need to convince you of my point of view.

    No reference - don't even try.
     
  16. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    First off, a Christian Should be anti gay, here are some bible verses:
    I'm not exactly sure what you mean by sex-shaming but I would guess you mean we are anti casual sex? If thats the case, than yes, because, once again, the bible says so. I'll give you a link instead of quoting. https://corechristianity.com/resour...-that-teach-that-sex-before-marriage-is-a-sin

    It also says this:
    If you think of Christians as hateful, that should not be the case. While we are anti-homosexuality, we are not anti-sinful man.
    According to a quick google search, there are 2.19 billion christians and 500 million aitheists in the world. Its absurd to generalize all of those people. There are some who are and some who aren't in both groups. I would guess the idea that Christians are ashamed of sex comes from our unwillingness to have any sex outside of marriage.

    You quoted that verse, way, way out of context. "And they were not ashamed" is speaking of adam and eve and that was completely heterosexual. You are however right that shame came with the fall. I would argue that homosexuality is not natural, as it doesn't accomplish procreation. You think all natural things should be left alone? Do you think pedophiles should be left to molest kids? Do you think the sick should be left to die? Hopefully not. Anyway, it doesn't really matter to Christianity wether homosexuality is natural or not, as natural things can still be a sin.
    Hope this helped.
     
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  17. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    I'll say this and "Brilliantidiot" has brought up a good case. As a Christian, I do not believe or support in homosexual marriage. In fact, I do not consider lend the word "marriage" to a homosexual couple (whether they've had a ceremony or not) because I believe marriage is dedicated and supposed to be for a man and a woman. That is the ultimate definition of marriage due to the natural inclination for a man and woman to get together, and create life. That is my belief.
    I do however don't believe homosexuality is a mere choice. I do not believe it's a simple pick and choose as someone would their food of a menu. That is why for me, homosexuality is kind of a mystery that I'm not sure why it is they way it is.
    But I will also tell you I am not "anti-gay" in the sense that I carry with me a persistent despondency for a homosexual person. I would be willing to have a gay friend or to have dinner with a gay person. I do not shame and exile such people for my life because of them being the way they are, even if I don't understand it.
    However, if we get into manners of transgenderism...then we're on to another thing. I do not understand that at all and more or less, it disturbs me. People treat is so nonchalantly but I am one of those like Ben Shapiro, I think there is a lot of damaged mental framework going on in the case of transgenders. (I don't hate them either) but that is something that I think is a real problem, and I cannot empathize with them like I do homosexuals.
     
  18. thatsingleindividual#K-13

    thatsingleindividual#K-13 Fapstronaut

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    Interesting video by the way, but I have to say, sex working is not compatible with Christianity. It would be an obvious contradiction.
    It would be like saying that an honest life can willingly have its dishonest moments or that to be an ethical person, one can indulge in the unethical every now and then.
     
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  19. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Everytime a Christian says "Because the bible says so" I want to punch them in the face. Seriously. But that's just a projection from my sub-conscious, projected on said scapegoat Christian. A projection of my hate, the hate of ideology. And you know what? That's ok. I do not condemn your shadow any more than mine. My point is that at least I'm aware of mine. I had to actually stop and think for myself to have that level of self-awareness. To be aware of one's shadow is a moral achievement beyond the normal. This serves as a prime example of what I fundamentally disagree with regarding Christians. You can always just blame everything on Satan, OUT THERE. Nooooo it's not psychological projection, it's Satan woooo. It's not just what's part of your biology... yeah sure.

    It's completely normal to have a dark side, to have dark thoughts and it's ok to make mistakes when your dark side gets involved, but you make right, you learn from your mistakes. You don't make an enemy out of your dark side, you NEED your dark side to function. An excellent example of this is Derren Brown's "The Push", he socially pressures people through an elaborate act in a building full of actors, into pushing a person off a building - I wont spoil it, but at the conclusion of the episode Derren says "... but to PUSH BACK." I think, be a dick sometimes, say "That's BULLSHIT". Sometimes it's absolutely correct to be rude, since you have no other choice.

    Imo this Satan idea is an excellent way to control people, to make them feel ashamed of their thoughts. THOUGHTS, are you kidding me?? That's an excellent way to suppress and ultimately create a darkness people project onto others. People like that never learn to feel a healthy amount of guilt without shame. You've esentially taught someone that there's something fundamentally wrong with them and that they need God in order to overcome Satan. A never ending cycle of shame addiction, since it's your fault for not having enough of God in your life. I've been to church, I've seen it with my own eyes. Most of your agreeable church members would push that man off the building.

    The good news though, I believe Satan is just an analogy to The Shadow - what your bible is trying to tell you - notice this is a critique of Christians NOT Christianity. Christian communities are not free of corruption. I've met plenty of Christians that resonate with what I'm saying. The Bible is to be understood symbolically, The Shadow is a problem but somehow Christians have made it more of a problem by the mere expression of the idea of Satan. I wish I never heard of these ridiculous notions. To be left alone to develop normally, ironically, as God intended.

    For instance take the example of how you said "I'm not exactly sure what you mean by sex-shaming but I would guess you mean we are anti casual sex? If thats the case, than yes" I don't believe that shaming and condemning anyone under any circumstances are moral. Period. I know a person with mild pedophilic tendencies, because of being extensively molested while they were young, but it's not acted upon and NEVER will be. It's a no-brainer. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with my friend. It's shit, but it means that my friend needs to accept this shadow and not condemn it. Shame is a soul eating emotion, is that what you want for my friend? Weakness??

    "We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses." - C.G. Jung
    If you wake up and your house is busy burning down, will you accept that your house is busy burning down and get out? Start planning on a life without your house? Gays for instance are never going to go away.

    Casual sex, same logic, it turns out a mistake, you learn from it, you tell the tale of why it was a mistake. Not because the bible effing says so! no questions asked! Don't you get how freaken shame inducing that is?? That's not thinking, God gave you a brain. Sorry. I just have zero tolerance for this. THINK. The bible gives you the tools to think, "because the bible says so" is NOT religious thinking.

    Gay people don't hurt anyone. It's also a no-brainer. Also they were born that way. Gay people are capable of love, widespread love. Do you kick your dog out of your house when he screws his mate too?

    This is why the church is dying. Are you gonna accept that your house is burning down? Your choice.

    "Then they ate that fruit" It wasn't obvious enough to you that I knew I was referring to Adam and Eve? Forget gay people. My point and the point of Genesis (Via using it for the mode of religious thinking) is: don't shame. Ok, but the bible also says "Being gay is DETESTABLE". That's a clear contradiction. My point is that thinking trumps "Say so". So in conclusion, your bible communicates that you should be ok with gay people and ACCEPT them and find a way to live with them in a way that doesn't hurt anyone, which i don't think is all that hard to do honestly. With pedophilia that's definitely more complicated and has more extremities, it's a horrible thing. My friend in later years became close to the person who molested him. Think about that. Does a weak person come to mind?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  20. Bayneling

    Bayneling Fapstronaut

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    Single Individual. I can see you are trying. You might get somewhere. If not, that's ok, just keep talking. So, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I resonate, so many trans people are unfortunate cases, but there is a place for them in this world. I get your point, it's like trying to empathise with -insert most serious mental illness- people, as far as that makes sense, since there are a lot of people with serious mental illness that could use empathy. Just makes me sad honestly.



    Gonna edit, I notice you might take offence to "You might get somewhere" I'm empathising, since I've struggled quite a bit to get somewhere with understanding the world, talking helps, reading is also essential though, or vids to start you off - I too like Ben Shapiro. But you surely can get somewhere. So I'd like to share something that has given me some peace about society.

    Ok Leo is kinda just selling the idea for the first 8 minutes, so feel free to skip to 8:00
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019

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