girls and the idea of Girls (capital G)

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Odd Thomas, Nov 15, 2014.

  1. Odd Thomas

    Odd Thomas Fapstronaut

    Hey! First thread! New around here, old to the game. At least in terms of time logged...maturity is questionable!

    Some of what I'm about to say may be more relevant to people doing the celibacy thing, whether it's abstinence before marriage, a temporary cleanse, or something else.

    Anyway. Girls man! Am I right?

    There's SO MUCH PRESSURE on finding a girlfriend or wife!

    I don't want one! I hide that fact for the most part, but it's NOT something I think I should feel even remotely ashamed of.

    In this culture people think that if you don't want a romantic partner, it's because you have beetle eyes or poop mouth or you live in a dumpster. Or there's something really wrong with you. Or you're lying. What the fuck?

    I buy into this bullshit idea all the time that I have to have a sexual partner to be happy. It is one of the biggest crock of shit that has ever been sold! It is part and parcel of the fallacious notion that the causes of happiness are external!! But I still believe it! It makes me miserable!

    I have not had a girlfriend or sex in 3 years! That is HUGE for me! With my history I am extremely proud of myself!! But there's another not inconsiderable part of me that's like, "what the fuck, man??!?!"
  2. welmwerth

    welmwerth Fapstronaut

    Welcome Odd Thomas.

    I suppose culture might play a role for some people - in terms of having a relationship. There may be those that believe if a person doesn't have a partner, there's something wrong with the person. People can be placed into relationships that might not work well for them.

    There are cultures where there is great importance placed between two people forming a relationship - traditions of arranged relationships.

    For me, I used to think I don't need a partner to make me happy, now, at my age, I feel that I want to share a life together with someone, as it can become increasingly lonely. I guess it depends on the person (as always). I've known people who has been single for their whole lives, but they have close friendships and community.

    I still question myself though, do I need a romantic/sexual partner to live? Will I look back, many years from now and think I have not wasted anything and regretted nothing for not actively pursuing a relationship?

    If you feel that it is right for you to be single, then that's good. I would also try to be open to the possibility of finding someone that might add more to one's life.
  3. Odd Thomas

    Odd Thomas Fapstronaut

    Hey WW,

    Thanks for your thoughts. Not sure quite how to say this, but in part you're expressing exactly the problem I'm talking about, the notion that your life is somehow unfulfilled, or less fulfilled, by not having a life partner in the romantic sense. This is a very pernicious idea that is guilty of causing untold misery and confusion for a staggering number of people.

    I firmly believe that people are not meant to be alone, but it's another thing entirely to conclude that people are meant to exist in romantic pairs, and that people who don't pair off this way live less fulfilling and less happy lives. Certainly in many cases that's true - I'll concede you that. But "many cases" is never a valid argument for establishing a universal truism. Furthermore, it conflicts directly with what I've observed from my own experience, the most dramatic example perhaps being with monks living in a religious community. Now monks are just human beings too obviously, so this is likewise not something that can be universally applied. But many of them are dramatically happier and appear to live much more peaceful and fulfilling lives than their married counterparts. Again, not true of everyone, but noteworthy.

    I never said I was completely closed off to the possibility of a romantic partner no matter what, I just said I don't want it. Furthermore I don't want to look for her, and/or work at getting her, and/or work at keeping her - if I don't really want it, what's the point? Been there, done that. Just so much wasted time and energy when I could be happy doing my own thing and enjoying my friendships. You might think that means I've never really loved, or that I had my heart broken and just can't pull myself back together enough to make another try, but you'd be wrong. I had a lot of casual sexual encounters in my twenties, but no matter how deludedly proud I might be in a certain context to relate the details or show a picture if I still had any, in retrospect, no matter how amazing or whatever the "seriously dude?? You SLEPT with her??!!! You're a fuckin beast bro!" factor, they were all just wasted time. There is one great love story to my live, where I loved a wonderful woman and we had a wonderful time together - some of the happiest times of my life. We had everything you'd want from a romantic partnership - I won't specify details because I'm a private person and that's not my style, but I want to stress the everything. It's been over for years. I was heart broken for a long time, but I'm largely over it. I'm certainly emotionally prepared to date someone or have a serious relationship, but I don't want to. It's not something I want for my life.

    Life without friendship is not liveable, but there's a whole lot of people who can live very happily without a wife or husband. Happier even. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with us.

  4. welmwerth

    welmwerth Fapstronaut

    Hi Odd Thomas,

    What I was trying to say about keeping an open mind - was, in a general sense and I did not know you particular circumstances, and have also misunderstood you. My apologies.

    I certainly respect your choice of lifestyle and I do not wish to convince you otherwise.

    From my own perspective, I have wondered, if it's society/culture that made me feel that I need to experience some kind of romantic partnership, or is it something deep within me; a yearning to connect at a level that I cannot do so with friends. I'm not just talking about physical intimacy, which is an expression of sort for a different kind of "love". I know, it does sound very idealistic or "rose tinted". In part, I supposed this could be contributed by my non existent romantic life for my entire time on this planet.

    Is the yearning driven by biological needs or is something else? Or perhaps both?

    Speaking for myself, I like to think that I can accept the possibility of relationships that do not last, even if I want to "live happily ever after" with a person. I get that life is fleeting and there are no guarantees, but I like to try, before I become even more fearful. Now, I can merely imagine.

    I do agree that there are those who do no require to be paired off and can live a fulfilling life. There is nothing wrong with that. Though, I ask myself, can I lead a life without a partner, despite my desires?

    Some that follow their calling in certain beliefs, such as those in religious communities do seem like they are quite satisfied with their lives, perhaps more so than their married/romantically partnered counterparts. I'm not entirely sure how they achieve this. Perhaps, their faith, dedication and willingness for their beliefs play a role, but such roads are not for me.

    If I should walk a path of solitude, then I need to make one that isn't about replacing an unrequited love/desire.

    I do wish you the best in your journey.
  5. MelancholyWeightlifter

    MelancholyWeightlifter Distinguished Fapstronaut

    Dude. OddThomas, I'm so glad there is finally someone on here who gets it! It's like you are reading my mind. I agree, the idea that you need to be in a romantic relationship to be happy is erroneous and false. Romantic relationships cause just as much pain as happiness. But no matter what, as humans, we will want to find a wife and mate. It's just instinct. I think we are past instinct though. I'm no animal. If I decide singleness will make me happy by God I'll be single!
  6. Vision

    Vision Fapstronaut

    I agree. Most cultures are aware of the possibility/need for celibacy. In fact this culture is anomalous and its idea of happiness perverse, no wonder most of the people living within it need tons of anti-depressants.
  7. hope96

    hope96 Fapstronaut

    Hi Odd Thomas,

    I certainly would agree with you that people are not meant to be alone or rather, they would be worse off alone and the existence of modern large scale human societies is proof that humans do need social interactions (whether it is innate or developed that is arguable). Regarding the case on monks living with a religious community, it is not exactly a dramatic expression of their happiness level because I think the concept of happiness and bliss needs to be separated in order to identify why their lifestyles seem so different and yet allows them to lead a "happier life". Well, for one, happy is not the correct description for the monks. Rather, it is more of a form of bliss, elevated happiness that is tied to deep levels of fulfilment and not to the attachments that we experience, which often manifests itself as temporal happiness at best, thus fleeting happiness is what is prevalent and commonly understood by many. This may in part, have been achieved due to the upkeeping of the "morals" of life (which is another debate altogether on what is the universal standard of moral living), or it could also have been due to the dedication of their lives to the spiritual path in seeking a deeper level of understanding of the human life and its ups and downs, thus developing insight into the nature about life.

    I hope this has cleared things up a little for you. Do pardon me if I have repeated any other points that were already mentioned in this thread, for I just penned down my thoughts as they came into my mind.

  8. ChangeofDavid

    ChangeofDavid Fapstronaut

    Hi Odd Thomas.

    I spent two years looking for a girl friend. Then I finally decided I didn't want to look anymore. This actually really helped me. I went out to a lot of events by myself that were extremely not helpful at first. In fact I came home depressed after not finding a girlfriend. I think since then I have learned to not expect too much of the world, for expectations can only get you so far especially with girls. At the time I was in the heart of a regular PMO schedule and the anxiety from it would make it impossible to meet girls and a Girl. I kind of felt like I was objectifying them and that it made it hard to communicate. Finally I slowed down the PMO and I reconnected with this girl who was a friend and from that friendship it turned into something more. I agree with you that relationships with girls can be completely overrated, and the pursuit of them can completely crush a person and be depressing. I also think that friendships with girls are useful and that sometimes a friendship will turn into something more. Consider having friendships with women and if they want something more you can decide. Pardon me if I repeated anything already said.
  9. Odd Thomas

    Odd Thomas Fapstronaut

    Thanks for your good wishes man, I'm sorry if I went off on you. I get really, really frustrated with myself when I go all doe-eyed over every pretty girl with a kind heart I see. Conditioning is a person, whether it's biological, societal, both, or neither.

    Yeah man! Animals don't have the same capacity to better themselves that we do (granted they don't have the same capacity to fuck themselves up either, but that's another story). I think it's a moral imperative to better ourselves and not fuck ourselves up. If I thought having a wife was my heartpath I'd try for that!

    Yeah man! Why is happiness always the goal? Can't it be a path too? Can you really live a lifestyle of quiet desperation, scraping by and slaving away in abject misery and disconnection from others in order to reach your goals, and then one day, all of a sudden have it magically convert to happiness and belonging? I sort of doubt it.

    Yeah man! I think this is the way! People are always telling me about this "friend zone" bullshit! I've been hearing that malarky since college! Fuck that shit man! If a girl - like me - is so superficial that if she doesn't see massive physical chemistry from the beginning she's just gonna pidgeonhole me, I don't want to be with her! I want someone who's gonna help me be less of a dick and live better!!

    I'm happy for you!

    I don't know if its right but it sounds so purtyy....

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