Addressing a Negative Core-Belief

[yammers-nf]

Hi folks. I have an issue with a core-belief that I wish to address, and I think disclosing this core belief with others in a self-improvement forum is a good place to start.

Fundamentally, this core-belief suggests that any female would view me as unattractive which conflicts with my inert desire to enter into an intimate relationship with a female. Today I gratify myself sexually with masturbation, a process that I find can be enjoyable but it often leaves me with feelings of shame, disgust, and hollowness. It is as if sex is to be enjoyed with a partner and, in the absence of a partner, what remains are unpleasant feelings and a longing to appreciate the experience with a partner.

In the face of this conflict I possess a desire to change, but I have remained steadfast in my cycle of behavior for several immediate reasons. The first is a bondage to refuse any intimacy with a woman until my behavioral health has improved. I caused tremendous pain to a significant other several years ago and I did not wish to inflict a similar pain to another human as long as my mind was sane enough to refuse such intimacy. Of course, I witnessed the consequences of my decision. For instance, through social media I saw high school friends enter into and maintain intimate relationships, some bearing children from those relationships. I could hardly tolerate the pain of viewing the images shared by others, and it drove me to isolate from any interaction on social media platforms.

Another reason was to disengage from the possibility of bearing children if I were to enter into an intimate relationship. One of my greatest fears is having children and neglecting them in a manner similar to the way I was neglected, subsequently teaching that she or he is unworthy of love and fostering a behavioral cycle of self-loathing towards either the self or towards others, among other things.

So, I drove myself into a corner of isolation and, for a time, I could justify it by measuring myself as acting in a virtuous manner – in a sense, I saw myself as a hero because I was protecting other potential mates from my self-pity and abusive, obsessive behavior. With the work I have done in addressing my behavioral health, this methodology has become an excuse to avoid further confronting my negative core-beliefs.

Now, I wish to embark on a journey of change, to continue my work in evaluating myself as worthy of love – of both giving it and receiving it. If I am to consider myself worthy of love, I must surrender the belief that a potential mate would characterize me as unattractive. Perhaps this is one of the defense mechanisms I have used to avoid intimacy with a female – in a sense, if I decide I am unattractive I can continue my cycle of self-pity, therefore entering into an intimate relationship is futile.

Does anyone else here struggle with a similar core-belief? Perhaps I can learn from reading about others' experience(s) with this matter.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Slimjimjones]

Hey man thanks for reaching out to the community!
So I have a few things that might help you.
1.Stoicism-likely to help you come to terms with what happened in your past.
2. You cannot live through fear, if you are scared that you might treat kids or a partner poorly then it is fully in your power to never do so. When you find a partner you need to make it a staple in your mind to make that woman feel like a honeybee in a hornet's nest (I'm not talking about money though)
3. My other recommendations are youtube channels and some books (These can help more than anything I could type out here)! I encourage you to seek these out, as it helps existential and internal suffering. Youtube: Academy of Ideas, Pursuit of Wonder
Books: The Way of Men trilogy by Jack Donovan

I hope these help brother!

P.s. Boost your confidence through the gym and other skilled trades, and I find it hard to believe that you'd be so unattractive a woman would never want you.

 

[yammers-nf]

Hi Slim, I appreciate your reply message. Let me share with you some thoughts I have regarding the items you discussed.

I read the Wikipedia summary of Stoicism since I am unfamiliar with the concept. From what I read and how I understand it, Stoicism is a philosophy of the mind where one neither entertains the past or the future, allowing oneself to live in the moment and participate in events as they play out where concerns over the past or worries of the future do not influence one's behavior. Do you think I have grasped the concept adequately with my brief reading?

Regarding #2, could you elaborate on what you mean by making someone "feel like a honeybee in a hornet's nest?"

Speaking of YouTube videos, I did a search for the channel "Academy of Ideas" and watched two of their videos. One I watched is titled "Why are So Many Men Psychologically Infantile?" where the commentator discussed men's psychological maturation process and how it can be stunted by factors such as adhering closely to the mother and refusing to step outside of one's comfort circle.
The other video I watched nearly to completion is titled "Carl Jung and the Psychology of the Man-Child" which addressed the concern that Western Society males and females, observed during the 20th century, are psychologically stunted well into their adult years. Some of the items I took away from the video include the process enacted by past tribes for physically maturing males – members of the tribe would put young males into a position of having to survive without the assistance of others, using only the knowledge instilled by the teaching(s) of one's elders. The video's argument is that parts of civilization, such as Western Society, lack a similar process that assist its citizens in maturing psychologically, so we see perhaps 20+ year-old men and women that one would evaluate as immature.

Anyway, the videos propose some fascinating ideas and their sentiment reflects some of the experience I have in trying to become a mature member of society and in attempting to overcome the neglect and, later, the coddling I received from some of my family members (my tribe), as well as learned behavior that seemed okay at the time but, later, arrived to the conclusion that it was hurting me and stunting my ability to grow. I do not wish to go into detail about all these matters, but I hope what I shared makes sense.

I'll see if I can find some videos from the "Pursuit of Wonder" channel, as well as look into the book trilogy you talked about.

Thanks again, Slim!

 

[Slimjimjones]

That's awesome to hear! That makes me very happy! Stoicism in a sense is not letting things that are out of your control cause you distress, but doesn't imply that you become emotionally disconnected, but to use your emotions as an indicator or evidence to make your next move. Of course it goes much deeper but it is a sort of cognitive behavioral therapy that helps in times of stress.

#2 That was my failed attempt at a unique metaphor meaning to make a girl feel like she is the most special one in the world. Which is an awesome feeling to give someone you truly love.

#3 I simply love those videos and books and is very thought provoking as it makes you think about the quirks of the human condition, and allows you to excel through those new gained perspectives.

Cheers!

 

[yammers-nf]

Hello again Slim. It is apropos that you shared the philosophy of Stoicism with me, as I recently learned I am powerless to control people around me, among other circumstances that are beyond my ability to control or manipulate. In a sense, I am not a god/deity and that is okay. Your descriptor of Stoicism assists me in understanding the concept, and I appreciate that information. Today, I am the process of practicing the surrender of distressful or unpleasant feelings whenever a circumstance does not occur as anticipated, instead opting to accept the circumstance as it is or how it plays out. For instance, I had a distressful moment occur for me earlier today. Even though the moment had passed, I remained distressed about it, so I let myself evaluate the situation and speak about why it caused me distress. Once I did that, I accepted that the moment had passed – I can no longer alter it – which helped me release the distressful feelings. I will try to think back to this concept of Stoicism as I proceed with my journey.

Also, your explanation of your metaphor has helped me understand it. While reading your statement, I took issue with the sentiment that one must make another feel like the most significant thing in the world. Perhaps we could entertain this discussion. Is it not the responsibility of every human to pursue or attain happiness on one's own terms? I just talked about how I am powerless to control other people. For instance, I can not make another feel or do anything. An absurd case example that was shared with me involves one holding a loaded pistol and pointing the barrel of it towards a part of someone else's body. The wielder of the pistol may be capable of "making" the target do something that the target may otherwise never do, but the pistol-wielder remains powerless over the target because it is the target's fear of being shot that is driving their behavior. Back to your point, it seems absurd to suggest that I must make someone else feel special, whether that includes a stranger I am meeting for the first time or a significant-other. I think we choose to enter into relationship with others for several reasons, including a genuine, perhaps sub-conscious feeling or belief that we appreciate each other's company (for whatever reason). Perhaps the person feels significant or special not because someone else made that person feel it but because they witnessed the way they were treated and attached meaning to that treatment. So, one chooses to share relations with another because of the unspoken agreement that they will be treated in a particular manner, perhaps in a way that is exclusive to the bond between those two people.

Perhaps where my sentiment starts to crumble is in observing domestic abuse. I have heard of stories where a man and a woman share an intimate relationship – where they dwell in the same home and they may be married by law, etc. – and it is disclosed that the woman, for instance, is frequently assaulted by the man. You and I may agree and gossip that, for the woman, receiving the physical abuse is not worth staying with the man, yet she continues to remain with him. I was emotionally abusive to a woman in an intimate relationship that occurred several years ago; we dated for several months! I see that as a red flag that she maintained contact with me, allowing me to abuse her (of course, it is also a red flag that I was communicating with her in an abusive manner). Speaking to your point, in contrast to the abuse, I was not putting forth a lot of effort into making her feel special. Indeed, one could argue that I was making her feel worthless. Unlovable! The same way I felt about myself. Perhaps this offers some context into why I am fearful of entering into a distinguished intimate relationship. I agree with you, though, that it is in my power to treat someone else a particular way outside of what I fear, that I can not allow that fear to drive me. I also believe it is in one's power to decide the relationship is no longer worth keeping. There are exceptions to this rule, of course, like the "abuser" no longer abusing another, etc.

I suppose this is my roundabout way of stating that I disagree with your sentiment of making someone else feel a particular way – special, not special, etc. But, perhaps I am misinterpreting your use of the word "making." I would certainly like to read your thoughts on the matter.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. Perhaps we'll talk again soon!

 

[Slimjimjones]

Ah yes! I appreciate the dedicated chase of your inquiry about that statement. I completely agree, one must be a holistic person and be happy with themselves, while their lovers simply be a supplement. I was simply saying that treating the one you love with kindness and compassion creates a communion with the one you love so strong that you wouldn't trade the world for it. (Or maybe I'm just head over heels in love with my lover).

As for the stoicism, that's great to hear! Stoicism helps you remain virtuous in turbulent times. One of the big teachings are that you choose how you react to a situation, not your emotions, which is why stepping back and looking at a situation matter of factly leads to a lot less internal suffering. I use this app called Daily Stoic Excercises that I look at every day so I am trained in the tools I have at my disposal to adress any disconcerting situation with virtue

 

[yammers-nf]

I smiled when I read your phrase, "maybe I'm just head over heels in love with my lover," as I think those words artfully touch on your metaphor. Perhaps my disconnection from the feeling of head-over-heels love is why I struggled to understand the meaning behind your metaphor.

Since you disclosed the name of the app you use, I may look into installing a similar app on my phone, if not the same one. The concept sounds interesting, performing a daily exercise to alter one's philosophy. Thanks for sharing that with me!

 

[Slimjimjones]

Thanks for talking with me!

 

[greenishmoon]

Good night @yammers-nf . I've read the entire thread and I must say I am amazed at how you articulated all those emotions into words. It is an issue I am working with, alongside many other things you wrote down. I also share part of that belief, also had a somewhat conflicting relationship (though with a different issue) and also struggle with the feeling of wanting that intimacy vs being really scared about it somehow. Your approaches seem good to me, keep going with that.

Perhaps this is one of the defense mechanisms I have used to avoid intimacy with a female – in a sense, if I decide I am unattractive I can continue my cycle of self-pity, therefore entering into an intimate relationship is futile.

But why? Why do you think you would do that?.

 

[Slimjimjones]

Good night @yammers-nf . I've read the entire thread and I must say I am amazed at how you articulated all those emotions into words. It is an issue I am working with, alongside many other things you wrote down. I also share part of that belief, also had a somewhat conflicting relationship (though with a different issue) and also struggle with the feeling of wanting that intimacy vs being really scared about it somehow. Your approaches seem good to me, keep going with that.



But why? Why do you think you would do that?.

Aww man I don't get any goodnight kisses from the homies

 

[greenishmoon]

Aww man I don't get any goodnight kisses from the homies

Good night slim

 

[yammers-nf]

Hi Greenishmoon, I appreciate your words and it is interesting to know you relate, to some degree, to the same issue. Perhaps you and I can continue to address this core-belief through conversation with one-another.

But why? Why do you think you would do that?

A fair question, one where I felt defensive as I read it because in only two words you highlighted the absurdity of my self-pity. I think I need some time to ponder your question. Later, I will expand on my thoughts by editing this reply.

EDIT
Shall I begin my essay?
If I am understanding your question correctly, you are wondering why it is I would choose self-pity, or, as I described it, remain in a cycle of self-pity. Indeed, I think your question demonstrates the unspoken agreement among us that choosing self-pity is absurd. I am inclined to agree with this, except that I have known self-pity for most of my adolescence, as well as for part of my adult life. In my adolescence, I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety, two psychological illnesses that are driven by a variety of factors which can be both distinguished and potentially complex for every observed case; therefore, how the depression and/or anxiety is addressed is unique to each circumstance. For instance, I received a combination of counseling and medication. It is impossible to measure how I would have functioned without these treatments, but I found myself expecting more improvement as I partook in the process of exchanging one brand of medication for another, in trying unfamiliar techniques of counseling, etc. Again, this self-pity has remained a prominent component of my life and I think the only way I can adequately answer your question is to evaluate the portions of my life that contributed to this behavior.

EDIT #2
Imagine yourself as a nine-year-old child who is an elementary school student living with your divorced mother. Both yourself and your mother recently relocated to a new dwelling place, a home and neighborhood you are unfamiliar with. Simultaneously, you are unacquainted with your school peers, the school teachers, and the school building because you are receiving education from an elementary school distinguished from the one you previously attended. It is both an exciting and frightening period of your life – exciting because you appreciate the sudden novelty of almost everything that surrounds you; frightening because you fear the unknowns and uncertainties of these novel things, and the fear leads to questions like, "Will any of my peers like me?" or "Will my teachers like me?"

Your mother is a dysfunctional adult and you are ignorant to this. In the eyes of American society, she is a mother of two children who provides for both herself and her children by relying on government assistance. She is unemployed and perhaps mentally ill, but, to her children, she is a loving, caring mother – perhaps the best mother in the world primarily because you are spoiled by her. For instance, your mother does not ask much of you – to perform household chores consistently, to go to bed at a specific time (except maybe on school nights), to complete your schoolwork, etc. – and she allows you to do practically anything you like in the home. As you will find out in living with her, she'll let you partake in entertaining yourself mostly uninterruptedly with either television shows or computer games and she will allow you to play outside sans supervision with the neighboring children. Also, she lets you consume the food in your home without much restriction. Overall, you feel like you bond well with your mother because she is seldom harsh or critical of you, and, for a time, you believe life in your new home is good.

While I have some remaining thoughts I wish to express, I need to step away from the process of writing. I will save the changes I have made and let you read them. I shall continue my edit(s) at a later time. Thank you for reading.

 

[greenishmoon]

Perhaps you and I can continue to address this core-belief

If it leads somewhere I'm all ears.

I felt defensive as I read it because in only two words you highlighted the absurdity

I see. It may have been a good question to ask, then. By any means have I resolved this issue, answered that question myselft nor understood it completely, but I think that making the right questions can lead ourselves to freedom. How old are you?

My first impression while reading your original post was that you weren't having that bad of a time actually. But now I even sense some attachment to that "self-pity" (as you described) part of you in your text, as if you were putting it before you so it can protect something. Which is also kind of peculiar because I am experiencing the same contradiction, now that I'm writing. My question wasn't that profound, but was only made to make us think about it. I recently heard this guy Krishamurti say "the answer is in the question itself" (even while not talking about any issue similar to this one) and it made me tickle in some way.
You didn't write that you were self pitying as an end, but rather because you were scared.

evaluate the portions of my life that contributed to this behavior.

How's therapy going for you?. You said also that you were actively looking to understand your problem better through books and videos. That's great. But, are you making changes right now?.

 

[yammers-nf]

If it leads somewhere I'm all ears.


I see. It may have been a good question to ask, then. By any means have I resolved this issue, answered that question myselft nor understood it completely, but I think that making the right questions can lead ourselves to freedom. How old are you?

My first impression while reading your original post was that you weren't having that bad of a time actually. But now I even sense some attachment to that "self-pity" (as you described) part of you in your text, as if you were putting it before you so it can protect something. Which is also kind of peculiar because I am experiencing the same contradiction, now that I'm writing. My question wasn't that profound, but was only made to make us think about it. I recently heard this guy Krishamurti say "the answer is in the question itself" (even while not talking about any issue similar to this one) and it made me tickle in some way.
You didn't write that you were self pitying as an end, but rather because you were scared.


How's therapy going for you?. You said also that you were actively looking to understand your problem better through books and videos. That's great. But, are you making changes right now?.

Hi Greenishmoon, I appreciate your reply message and your thoughtful statements. I agree with your words regarding your question, that it was good to ask. I simply observed that I felt defensive while reading it and I wanted to share that with you.

How old are you?

I am 24-years-old.

My first impression while reading your original post was that you weren't having that bad of a time actually.

I think the self-pity is more prevalent in my life than you may have initially thought. For me, it's a daily battle of expressing gratitude for my existence and experiencing life to the fullest-possible-extent versus remaining isolated and sheltered, refusing to participate in life's events and, instead, entertaining a fictional instance of reality. For example, Sunday, January 24 was a day of seeking comfort – seeking comfort food while I was awake and sleeping for extended periods of time (two coping mechanisms I commonly rely on). Simultaneously, I found myself struggling greatly with self-pity; one could argue it was a bad day. Of course, I could retort by saying it was not entirely bad. For instance, I am here typing this message, which I consider a positive thing because it helps me surrender my routine of pity and comfort. One might suggest it is a bit uncomfortable to speak about one's self in an intimate manner on a public domain where one could easily be criticized for their words. But I have consistently received encouragement and support when I have shared intimately, which I expect from a community of recovering addicts, and I feel blessed to receive the encouragement and support.

How [is] therapy going for you?

I am not in therapy today, but I receive counseling through other measures. For instance, I participate in a weekly community support group that allows people to get together to openly disclose about one's addiction(s) or other compulsive behavior(s). The support group certainly helps and I am committed to weekly attendance. I am blessed to live in a small community where the Coronavirus has not significantly affected the operation of certain community outreach programs.

[A]re you making changes right now?

I am uncertain of how to address your question about making changes in my life, other than I am searching for employment – I am expected to begin a job during the week of the 24th – and I am being as active as possible on the NoFap community forums to disengage from my habit of pity and isolation. Does that help answer your question?

 

[greenishmoon]

For example, Sunday, January 24 was a day of seeking comfort – seeking comfort food while I was awake and sleeping for extended periods of time (two coping mechanisms I commonly rely on). Simultaneously, I found myself struggling greatly with self-pity; one could argue it was a bad day. Of course, I could retort by saying it was not entirely bad

Yes, I understand. I happen to be living quite similarly right now. Did you find activities and habits to counter that?

The support group certainly helps and I am committed to weekly attendance. I am blessed to live in a small community where the Coronavirus has not significantly affected the operation of certain community outreach programs.

Cool!. Here we only have drug addicts farms as far as I know.

I am 24-years-old.

23 here.