Afraid she'll run if she knew about your PMO

Discussion in 'Dating during a Reboot' started by Merovingian, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. I don't know if there's any point in me answering it because maybe the thread has moved past this but I will anyway - I find scenario interesting and challenging.

    Scenario one:
    I wouldn't be happy... Chances are if she's a camgirl her videos would be all over the internet... In someway they're like porn stars. I do think she's coming across as being somewhat arrogant by saying she knows I won't leave her because no knows that. Her addiction to attention would be alarming. But wouldn't I pick up that she is arrogant and attention seeking before marriage? I know sometime love can be blind but I would like to think I would end it before it came to marriage since I find arrogance and the need for attention as rather unattractive. But anyway if I didn't pick up on it... Well if she wasn't arrogant then I would still marry as long as she deals with problem. But if she is arrogant I would end it since her arrogance would get in the way of her making positive changes in her life.

    Scenario two:
    I've said this before on this thread but I find it very alarming that people have sex after two weeks of dating, for me that is way too soon. IMO it should be a minimum of eight months until having sex but I might be willing to compromise on six but never two weeks. In fact waiting until marriage is even better than the eight months. So it wouldn't be all that concerned that she isn't having sex with me by then. My ex was abused by her step father so I may pick up on signs that she was raped... I'm no expert so maybe she would respond differently to the rape but if she ends up saying things like, "Go and find another girl" or "I don't deserve you so why don't you just leave me" or "Stop saying you love me, I know you don't" I will begin to wonder if something really bad had happened to her. That might cause me to end it because while it might seem cruel, you're fighting a losing battle when someone has such a low view of their self. Love of a SO is never enough to overcome such deep pain. But if there were no signs and she told me on about the rape a week before the wedding I don't think I wouldn't be mad, her actions are kind of understandable. I plan to only start dating again until I reach a certain milestone in recovery, I will only get to that milestone by my developing self control/discipline, so by the time I get to my wedding I think I'll have enough control and discipline to not have sex with my wife for 3 or 4 years. If I don't marry her because she won't have sex with me I never loved her in the first place and in the scenario it says I love her

    Scenario three:
    I think this is the worse scenario of the three. It's a problem because she's going on dating sites. I would chose the cam girl over this kind of women because this just could lead to adultery. I would tell her it's good she recognizes it's a problem but we need to take a break so she can deal with the problem.

    I do value honesty but I understand fear. I would never think to myself how could she do that or she an evil person. I think life is less black and white and more grey. I don't think people do bad things for the sake of doing bad things, they do it because of pain. I believe in the saying: hurt people, hurt people. All three scenarios consist of broken women who shouldn't be dating in the first place. They all need to heal from their wounds. I remember Holly Wagner once saying*, 'When you get married two become one but how can you become one when you're only half of a person'? I got annoyed when I heard her say that because I was (and still am) a broken person. I wanted to be in relationship so I got in one with my ex who was just as broken as me. Eventually it ended because, at the end of the day, we didn't love ourselves like we loved each other. Stuff had happened in our pasts and we both had never recovered from it. I really do think before dating everyone should ask themselves: where am I broken and how do I fix it? Then work on themselves until they heal and don't start dating until they heal or at least start to heal.

    For us PMA I think it's best we don't date until we've at least started to dig up the root of our addiction. It's great if you've gone 60 or 90 days PM free but that doesn't mean you've dug up the roots of your PMA. You can stop looking at porn but still have the mentality of a porn addict. I'm not speaking as someone who's in a healthy place yet but as someone who knows they need to heal. Personally I won't be dating until some roots get up rooted.

    Sorry my post my of sort of gone off topic. But Anna's scenarios got me thinking.

    *Can't remember the quote word for word but it was along the lines of what I wrote.
     
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  2. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    @Surfing Poet Your post was very honest and genuine. I really liked your response.

    It's true, hurt people do hurt people.

    And yes, all the women in those situations were hurting and not addressing the issues in their life, and so they themselves are unhealthy and thus hurt the one they love with their unhealthiness.

    Healthy people are able to be honest, are able to be accountable and responsible, are able to own their actions, are able to communicate, to trust, etc.

    So I still believe honesty is best, especially when it comes to addictions, abuse, or other mental or medical issues that affect not only yourself but will affect the person you choose to be with
     
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  3. Understandably so; I also view it as cheating.

    I find this to be an odd stance. It should be considered cheating even if the person is honest about it and even if it hasn't effected the sexual relationship yet.

    Understandable.

    Most men think it's no big deal because they have grown up under fathers and a society that portrays porn as something natural or as something that shouldn't be seen as a big deal. One of the only reasons for why I can say I know better is because I was raised by my grandparent's who grew up during a time before the sexual revolution; during a time where the values of society matched a lot of what many couples are now returning to in order to keep and maintain a healthy relationship. Unfortunately the sexual revolution brought with it the primacy of sex over the primacy of the person. It's a mentality that's even effected you when above you claim the issue with porn is only when it effects the sexual relationship, as if that is the most important aspect of the relationship that needs to be kept spotless.

    Thankfully I've had the interesting experience of growing up with values from two different worlds pulling at me; the one my grandfather lived in and the one I currently live in. I can say if I grew up during a time my grandfather lived in I wouldn't have become a porn addict, because I would have never put sex on such a high pedestal. You see I started viewing porn because I wanted to know how to please women, because my society bases a lot of my value on how well I fuck and not on my inherent worth as a human being. You claim the issue is with men but the issue with society and men and women both have a dirt on their hands when it comes to that.

    It's about both, and that is the stance you need to take. There is nothing healthy that can come from porn. It's devoid of love which is what makes it either completely useless within a relationship or something harmful to a relationship. Porn is inherently bad, but sadly most are too afraid to take this stance because you want to be viewed as open minded and tolerant.

    Lying to your spouse about anything is a form of betrayal.

    I don't entirely agree with this statement. Both the lying and the porn cause pain. The former betrays the other person and the latter makes the other person feel inadequate or degraded.

    Agreed.

    I agree that will not help keep his partner, since it is a refusal to communicate and acknowledge the value and worth of your partner.


    I do like that above statement because it show's somewhat of a biased: "a big issue between men and women is that often MEN cannot see that someone else has a different view.." So which is it? Is it an issue both men and women struggle with or just men? You seem to give off the impression that it's only men.


    This is a sad reality and the aftermath of selfishness and how it destroys a relationship.

    Would I be correct in concluding that your frustration isn't with addicts at all but men in general?

    This would be a great way for a man to approach the situation, I agree, but have you considered that the reason why men hardly get to this level is also because most women refuse to check their feelings at the door for a moment to understand their man's point of view? A lot of times when I hear the importance of communication stressed it is always the standpoint that effective communication is only achieved when the man can acknowledge the woman's feelings, but that the equally important process of the woman putting her feelings on the side in order to listen and better understand her man is never stressed. Why is that?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2018
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  4. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    How do you know how women feel are you a woman? Have you ever been? Explain how there are women pmo addicts? I agree with you that you should tell no matter what. The problem I have is that you are making an assumption about all women that’s just not true based on your experiences as a man. Both genders have a biological disposition to have sex. My sex drive as a female has always been higher than my partners. I have single friends that hook up with different men all the time and enjoy it. They crave variety. I am also just as visual as a man.
     
  5. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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  6. Thomas Smith

    Thomas Smith Fapstronaut

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    But why are these women watching porn? I've read a lot of women say they watch porn just to know what their guy is looking at, and to see what he likes. The percentage of women who watch porn purely for their enjoyment is probably a lot less.

    Once again, this isn't often true. There are plenty of women who have decided to stay with their man after finding out about his PMO, who wouldn't have dated him if they knew about it to begin with.

    And there's option D - that she finds out later about his porn use and stays with him. There are even lots of women on NoFap who chose option D. And there are TONS of women on other sites who have chosen option D.

    But an addiction to heroin is different. Heroin isn't as gender-oriented as porn addiction is. A woman could understand that some people get addicted to heroin, men and women, but she's usually not going to understand porn much at all, because it is still (and I believe always will be) a mostly male thing.
     
  7. Thomas Smith

    Thomas Smith Fapstronaut

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    No, no, no. There is a big difference between the sexes. So you are just as visual as a man. Ohhh..kay? You are an exception. What does that prove? Nothing. I like watching Hallmark movies. What does that mean - that most guys do? No. I'm an exception. Your sex drive as a female is higher than the guys you date. Once again, what does that prove? Nothing. You're in the minority. Not a tiny minority, but still a minority.

    Guys have a desire for sexual variety that has its root in evolution. Just look at the animal kingdom and you'll see the same thing. We are, as someone once put it, the "naked ape". Are we higher than the apes? Sure. But we are related to them. (If you don't believe in evolution, well, hopefully that's not the case.) Women, in general, don't have nearly this much desire for sexual variety as men. They are much more interested in finding one good mate. As I said, in general.
     
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  8. Merovingian

    Merovingian Fapstronaut

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  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    And women don’t lol? If women had no evolutionary drive to have sex the human race would die out! It’s not just men! Men and women both have the drive but for some it’s a different type of drive but still just as strong as men. And in many cases it is exactly the same. Many many men have little to no sex drive and many many women have a very high sex drive and desire for variety.

    The biological drive you speak of is actually just a gender norm created by society. Actually created by the patriarchy to excuse bad behavior. Oh he can’t control himself he’s a man. Boys will be boys. Of course he cheated it’s understandable men are visual creatures. Or she turned him down for sex he had to do something men need sex ! And women don’t? And then of course there are the pmo addicts still actively using or struggling to find an excuse to use again. Oh men have a need so it’s normal they need to use porn. Tell me when has this old biological predisposition ever been used for anything but to justify bad behavior? Men have controlled our society for years and in doing so have created rules that work for them.

    Let’s flip the scenario the man is not giving the woman enough sex. Does anyone say oh women will be women? No they say the woman must have let herself go or she’s never by too aggressive or what’s wrong with her is she a nympho? But she has a biological desire for sex. Why is that not considered? Woman cheats on man. She’s called a slut! How could she what’s wrong with her?

    So tell me who does the old argument for biological evolutionary bs serve? That’s right men. But here’s the thing. As the patriarchy is losing its grip and women are forging ahead we are seeing the exact type of behavior from women. Almost as many women as men cheat on their spouses. 60% watch porn and women are just as crass and crude about sex as men. Wife after wife complains of being in a sexless marriage.

    This has nothing do do with biology and everything to do with gender bias. Thankfully that bias is fast moving forward and most people (other than men trying to make excuses for their bad behavior) recognize that women always had the same exact drive they just were forced by society to suppress it. And the old boys will be boys is going to the wayside as people realize that’s all it was an excuse. The revolution will be televised and I think in the next 10 years a lot of men are going to be in for a rude awakening called absolute equality. And women are going to leave men behind. If porn is what you desire great, next see you later! If you cheat okay I’m out. Turn me down for sex, I will get a man on the side. And when the tables are turned maybe then those who say “boys will be boys will get it.”
     
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  10. Merovingian

    Merovingian Fapstronaut

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  11. Thomas Smith

    Thomas Smith Fapstronaut

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    GG2002, ok, I can get on board with some of the stuff you say. Other stuff I can't:

    No, women don't have as much drive for sexual variety as men do. They may have as much interest in sex, but not usually as much interest in various shapes, looks, sizes, races, etc. as men do.

    As for the "many, many men" that have little to no sex drive, these are generally older men. Not younger ones (that haven't been too altered by their porn use).

    What makes you think this? What feminist fanatics have you been influenced by? Tell me. I've probably got something to say about them.

    But what have you got to say about the incredible similarity between the males of homo sapiens and the males of most animal species? We are a product of evolution, after all. As the saying goes, males wish to spread their seed to a multitude of females, and females look for that one, stable, strong male to have offspring with.

    Here's where I agree with you quite a bit. Cheating isn't justified just because a guy can't get sex from his woman. There should be love, and love should trump sex. But breakup or divorce should come before cheating.

    That biological disposition is what it is. It is sometimes just used to explain why guys like variety. In this case, it's a neutral purpose for using the explanation - not a justification of bad behavior.

    Here I fully agree. I would never say the woman is a nympho, but I know some guys would. I would never shame her for wanting more sex, or even wanting to go outside the relationship to get it, but I know some guys would.

    As I said in another post, I disagree with this number. A lot of women watch porn to see what their guy is looking at or what he likes.

    Millions of years of evolution disagree with you.

    The same exact drive? No. But more of a drive than society thinks.

    I think a lot of this will be good. It will make a bunch of guys shape up who need to. But women are already seeing a lot of ways in which equality isn't what they bargained for. They are realizing some ways they had it good. But guys are also realizing ways they had it good.
     
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  12. I actually think many don't understand... In fact some men don't understand either. My first two AP were men who I told face to face about it and didn't fully get it... Another person I asked to me my AP started talking to me about my porn problem at his dinner table in front of his kids, I laugh about it now but back then it was so embarrassing. My APs seemed to think I'd get over it so they kind of stopped talking to me about it after a few months. Some of the women I have told freaked out... I told one female friend and her jaw dropped and it took her a few minutes to say anything. To her credit she still remained my friend but it definitely shocked her. I did have this female friend who was quite cool when I told... She just said, "We all have our demons to battle" and then soon moved the conversation along. But I do get the sense many people don't want to understand about PA... Even my ex didn't want to know much about it. I told her about X3 Church but she didn't want to look at it. I think a website like NoFap would freak most people out. But then again maybe it's the people I used to hang out with. Every person I mentioned were people who'd go to church. So maybe if she's not a church going person then it won't be as much of big deal.
     
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  13. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. My bf told me the first time we hung out. Before we even started dating. In fact he told me everything before we decided to be exclusive. He didn't want anything coming out in the future that could potentially hurt us and drive me away. And to be 100% honest, that raw honesty played huge part in me falling in love with him.
     
  14. determined1223

    determined1223 Fapstronaut

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    I have a question to the ladies here.

    A few months ago i met a girl, she lives across the street and we started to hangout. We did see each other daily for four weeks and it felt like it was a relationship. I was insecure because i could not give her sex because i knew i had PIED. At this time i was off porn for over a year but was still having substitutes like sexting and grinding/edging. So i was still addicted without knowing.

    Her father sadly died after those four weeks and she told me she needed some space. I gave her that since i of course fully understood. She then told me her feelings were complex and she didn't know what she felt for me. I think it has to do with me not giving her sex and holding back the relationship, i was pretty much backing it off while i loved her a lot.

    2 months passed were we would just meet and walk the dog for example and talk about her feelings about her dad passing away i saw she was doing better in those days. During her christmas holiday she bought me a present and told me she just bought for her closest persons. I was the happiest man on earth that day. I started to ask her out on a date to drink some wine in the city again and she said yes. Still i felt very insecure and i must have been broadcasting that. That weekend she couldn't go on the date, she had a perfect reason. Still i was mad, not on her. But just emotion from the whole situation came out. I was more mad about myself to be honest. I told her this and she told me i ruined her evening.

    The next sunday i saw a guy in her house at first i thought i was imagining things. But the next morning i saw him again. I approached her and asked her about it. I made a fight on the street and told her i never wanted to see her again. I did not mean a word of this. The guy left through the backdoor. I don't feel like she cheated me since we were not dating and she told me that she was unsure about her feelings.

    Anyway, i felt more decided than ever to kill my addiction. I'm 100% sure i will succeed this time. I wanted to tell her after 30 days around valentine's day to then break the silence. But while i was typing this text i broke the silence and wrote her that i wanted to tell her something about me that nobody knows not even my parents. So i guess the answer presented itself already in my head haha. Thanks anyway.
     
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  15. Merovingian

    Merovingian Fapstronaut

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    I'd like to know how that turns out.
     
  16. determined1223

    determined1223 Fapstronaut

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    Sure. What do you think about it?

    For now, I sent the message and i know she saw it. I saw her walking upstairs and then i saw the curtains move from out a dark sleeping room which is her sisters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  17. Merovingian

    Merovingian Fapstronaut

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    I think allot would depend on the fight you had in the street as to what her reaction would be. But going by my thoughts on the entire relationship I wonder what your excuse was to give her then as to why you didn't escalate into a sexual relationship?
     
  18. determined1223

    determined1223 Fapstronaut

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    The fight was pretty mild. I asked her a question she refused to answer. Then i told her if the answer to my question would be yes that i never wanted to talk with her. She is Greek so used to some temperament. My excuse will be the truth. That i was afraid for a sexual relationship because of my ED caused by why we are all here.

    At that time i didn't give an explanation to her. Just said i wanted to do things slowly with her because i had bad relationsships with girls in the past. She did not understand this since her argument was that if you are in love you want to have sex and follow your feelings.
     
  19. Merovingian

    Merovingian Fapstronaut

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    I think that's the biggest thing right there and my response is probably going to ignite some additional debate on this thread but here goes.

    Women by and large are totally not used to being rejected when they are dating someone (which it sounds as if you were dating). Usually, they are the ones 9/10 that gives the yes / no vote on sexual encounters and when they get a hard "NO" from a guy they take it like 10x more personally than any guy would.
     
  20. determined1223

    determined1223 Fapstronaut

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    That is the main reason why i want it to tell to her. That is was not her, but because of me.
     

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