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Anybody here with visual snow symptoms?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by ZenPool, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. HydeX

    HydeX New Fapstronaut

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    HI Zen. It has been 2 years since your last update. How is your condition now? Is your visual snow getting better? I am glad that i found your post. Give me hope and inspired me to improve my health and life with NoFap and pmo
     
    Dr. Jekyll likes this.
  2. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Well I have some bad news, I relapsed about 2 months in. I developed some sort of allergic reaction that covered my entire left eye. It stressed me out so much that I gave in. Ever since then I have be struggling with keeping a streak going. I am now at over 2 weeks and I am dead serious this time. I can't go any further through life like this. I've come out and told my GF and family members about whats going on. Which I think will help me not relapse since it will make me feel like a failure and a liar to them if i fail. I do have some good news. I've been seeing more and more people experiencing VS on here and elsewhere with them reporting that their VS has cleared up. I think those that have VS and DR/DP are the worse cases on here and have been PMO'ing the longest since they were around 10 years of age. I'd like to re-connect with this community, since I've relapsed I've bee ashamed on coming back here and it does suck that it has been 2 years and I havent had a streak for more than a month since my first relapse. I will try to come back here and give updates to my VS DR/DP because I know how hard it is to deal with everyday and I'd like to be able to relieve someones worry and anxiety on the subject. I will say however on my first 2 month streak that I did notice that my VS was somewhat clearing up.

    My first week that started on Friday the 13th was complete hell. I experienced very high anxiety and derealization and moments of intense brain fog and depression I could barely focus on school or anything. The only thing that help temporarily was working out. I probably ran 3+ miles a day and did a lot of weight lifting . Week 2 has been much better but I feel emotionally dead inside and I've been quite irritable towards others, though today has been good so far.

    My tips for those with VS/DP/DR to get through the initial shit period:

    1) Drink a lot of water 3-5 litres. So many benefits from this.
    2) work out, especially through the moments of anxiety
    3) take supplements: a) zinc: helps alot with skin and semen recovery i take 50mg be careful though I recommend taking with food otherwise it can cause temporary nausea although the nausea could help deter you from PMO haha :D b)L-theanine helps calm and reduce the anxiety and stress im taking c) holy basil: i take this with my L-theanine twice a day helps with anxiety and depression.
    4) listen to guided meditations on youtube: i like this guy named paul santisi especially his video mind silence. This helps me get to sleep when i cant calm down
    5) drink diet tonic water: the quinine helps relax your muscles and helps you sleep.
    6)breathing exercises: some may notice when dealing with anxiety that they are breathing very shallow deep breathing helps so much and makes you feel tons better.
    7) work on posture: posture helps on so many levels that i dont need to list
    8) yoga and qigong for rebalancing your body and energy (qi) look for vids on youtube for this. also helps with posture
    9) get outside and reconnect with nature. I was couped up in my house over winter break from school and I think it helped trigger my week long anxiety.
    10) look up healing hands on google and see if there are any practitioners around you. One session cost $50 but it is what got my out of my anxiety period, without it i might still be dealing with it and would be very far behind in school. Trust me it works 100%
    11) find something that will make you laugh, whether its a friend or a T.V. show. some say that laughter is the best medicine and it helps with the moments of depression. My source of laughter was the show Its always sunny in Philadelphia :)

    Ill post more as i think of them
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  3. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    the brand L-theanine im taking is: serene science theanine serene with relora. I bought it from the Vitamin Shoppe but they have it online as well. Also another tip I wanted to give to anyone interested is listening to positive affirmation videos on youtube. As I mentioned before Paul Santisi has many good vids on this. Keeping and building positive thought patterns helps probably more than anything on here that I've listed.

    Also if you're sexually active, you should consider trying to refrain from ejaculating it helps with retaining your semen (obviously) and won't hinder your streak. Also it'll keep her coming back for more on a more frequent basis. ;) East Asians have been practicing this for 1000's of years. I recommend looking it up to read the benefits :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  4. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    Wow I belong on this thread. I had no idea what a panic attack was or really what anxiety was until the height of my PMO addiction (edging for 5-8 hours almost everyday). Then one day in an instant I lost the vision in my right eye (my first migraine with visual aura) and simultaneously had a panic attack with extreme derealization. It was the scariest shit ever! I was at work and I got in my car to drive home. I called my wife and was trying to explain what was going on and I couldn't even talk. I couldn't figure out when to stop and when to go at the traffic lights. It felt like there was something in my brain that "snapped". From that day on, for about a year, I had absolutely the worst anxiety - unimaginable - a serious living hell. I would get awful visual snow during panic attacks. My hair started falling out. My eyes become absurdly sensitive to light and I had to wear sunglasses during the day at my office. I had derealization but not every moment of every day - it would just come and go at unpredictable times - in stores and in face-to-face conversations were the worst. I went to the ER thinking I had brain cancer or aneurysm. They did brain scan and nothing. Doctor prescribed me therapy visits. That's when I started to learn about depression and anxiety and how thoughts affect emotions. I was still PMOing but knew that was at least a big part of the problem.

    Someone else in this thread mentioned feeling like explosions of air or electrical buzz was happening in their brain. Yes!! Sometimes it was like there was a perfume bottle in my brain and someone was spritzing it. There would be "shifts" between areas of the brain that were buzzing.

    Ok so here's the deal: I have not masturbated or watched porn for almost 6 months - since August 17. I don't have panic attacks, I don't have depression or anxiety (there are occasional "flatlines" with depression/anxiety and that last about a week or so each time), I don't have visual snow, my hair grew back, I don't have any episodes with derealization, etc.... I'd say it took about 6 good weeks for symptoms to really clear up pretty good, then another 2 months or so before they were almost non-existent.

    Keep in mind that I've applied myself 100% toward reboot. For me reboot is bigger than just quitting porn and masturbation. It's about getting into proper, healthy shape mentally and emotionally. I take reboot very seriously. You can read my journal for a report of the progression of my reboot. Unfortunately, I didn't sign up for the NoFap sight until day 69 of my reboot, so there's no journal of the first 68 days.

    I have absolutely no doubt that quitting PMO is what made the difference for me. I hope you do whatever it takes to quit and find out for yourself. It's not easy but it's actually much harder to live with anxiety, panic attacks, depression, shame, derealization, etc.... I'm pulling for you!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
    Deadlihood and ZenPool like this.
  5. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Good lord! what a story. Thanks a lot for sharing. :) Its such a relief to know that I may actually get back to normal, like how it was before all of this stress, worrying and panic. Im now at a little past 2 weeks. My first week was a anxiety/depression filled flatline that reminded a lot of my initial panic induced days. This week has been much better. I've been living with VS DP/DR for almost a decade now and I feel its disconnected me from so many opportunities in life that I could have experienced. Knowledge IS power, and without discovering this community I could very well be suffering for the rest of my life and accepting that I have just been dealt a shit hand in life. But it all makes sense now. I just need to keep on track and never look back!

    I'm very happy for you and your recovery! The beginning of your story sounds very scary and very similar to my experience as well. I hope this thread helps all those who have to go through this kind of hell. Visual snow is no joke. and Derealization is the worst experience I've ever felt. Nobody should have to endure this shit. I tell myself everyday that porn has no more power over me. That I control my future now and I can start living my life the way I was meant to!

    Also I totally agree that nofap isnt 100% the cure to full reboot, but it was the root of the cause of all the aliments that we experienced and by starting at the root is were all good change takes place and how progression becomes somewhat linear. I used to do many healthy things long ago and I'm excited to get back to that life style and the freedom that I feel while doing it. I miss being outgoing and extroverted, absolutely giving no fucks about what I did or how I acted in front of strangers. I met lots of people that way and I was happy with were I was at in life. Feel free to keep posting on here. I will surely let everyone know my progress through the next long months. I know its been 2 years since starting and dedicating myself to this cause but its okay because its never too late to improve ones self.
     
  6. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    I'm lukewarm on saying that PMO was the root cause of all the ailments. You can probably say that derealization, panic, etc.. are the symptoms of my heavy PMO abuse, but in my case the true root cause was certain beliefs about myself that I formed when I was very young, after the suicide of my father. These inaccurate beliefs led to depression, which I then tried to alleviate or escape with masturbation, athletics, drugs & alcohol, work, etc... all of which aren't inherently unhealthy things (ok drugs are bad), but the way I engaged them was absolutely unhealthy. I was obsessive with them. I had the depression my entire life - so long that I just thought that was "me". I couldn't see the forest through the trees - I didn't realize that I am not my thoughts, that my thoughts might not be accurate, might not reflect true reality. At the therapy sessions I was prescribed it became apparent pretty quick that the death of my dad was mostly unresolved within me, that I was carrying around all sorts of baggage from it. The biggest thing was that I'd always had a subconscious belief that I was genetically inferior to other people because my dad killed himself - like I was from flawed DNA. I carried enormous shame about it. These inaccurate beliefs affect behavior - big time. So when I discovered masturbation during puberty, it was greatly relieving for the depression and shame I was always feeling. It was a snowball effect because then I was forming unhealthy beliefs (subconsciously) about masturbation. Without knowing it, I started using it to cope emotionally. Then when I got older and high-speed internet and streaming porn were introduced, it was the perfect storm for me to spiral out of control.

    Once I started going to the therapist, reading books like "When Panic Attacks", practicing meditation, etc... I began to be able to troubleshoot myself a bit and started seeing distortions in my thinking that were leading to anxiety and depression. That's when I found NoFap and knew I could apply it to help me. So even though my NoFap reboot is only on day 160something, my life reboot is probably around 2 years.

    I would highly recommend reading When Panic Attacks, and starting some type of daily meditation practice. I do 15 mins, twice a day. Both of these things have been crucial to my recovery from where I was a few years ago.

    God damn, if you are currently going through what I went through, my heart goes out to you. No human being should have to experience that. It is a living nightmare. I felt so mentally ill, holding on for dear life to my sanity, with nobody that could understand it. I would love nothing more than for you to prove, by an extended reboot, that I am not a unique case, that ceasing PMO can resolve these issues within the brain. Please keep me posted.

    Do you have a journal? I think you'll want a daily journal so that you'll be able to work on yourself, your specific story. It's helped me greatly in getting support and feedback and in troubleshooting urges and problems as I reboot.

    Sorry, I'm typing a novel. Enough for now.
     
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  7. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Sorry man didn't mean it like that. When I said the root I meant the initial symptoms caused by PMO, as you mentioned the derealization and anxiety. As for the reasons why all of us got into PMO in the first place, well that is probably very much different for most of us and in your case I would say that im sorry that happened to you and I understand how that allowed you to slip into the horrible addiction of PMO. I cant imagine how it must have been, but I truly sympathize to the best of my ability.

    And yes trust me I think what you went through as far as I can tell is the same thing Ive been going through since i was 15, im 26 now. No words can express the moments of terror, the feeling of no escape from the dark reality and panic that engulfs you. I felt like I was dying constantly. I turned into a full blown hypochondriac to the point were i was afraid to eat food that someone else made in fear that they put poison or drugs in it. I honestly don't think we are the only ones dealing with this. I think there is a lot of people that have this that still haven't found out it may be caused by PMO. I didnt know it was that until 2 years ago. Thats 8 years of living in fear, hopelessness and confusion.

    I hope to inform others that there may be hope for them. If they are suffering from VS or DR/DP that suddenly came on for no apparent reason and they masturbate excessively then nofap may cure them. There's a whole forum dedicated to VS where is actually the place I found out about NoFap. I have a link on my first post of this thread of a guy with VS that cured it with nofap in 3 months. Since then I have found others with the same issues although few in numbers, it is something to mention. the member on here, who has been banned for some reason, Clumsy is his name, also suffered from VS DR/DP and has a few threads explaining it in detail. In fact he posted on this thread a few times.

    As far as dealing with the stress and the distorted reality caused by the VS and DR, I am trying to meditate especially in moments of anxiety when I feel not in control. Tomorrow however I will try to do it when I am calm as well. I'll look into that book as well, thanks for the tip. I found a good book that helped me on my first nofap streak called outwitting the devil by Napoleon hill. I recommend it to anyone regardless their current situation. there are many interesting concepts including sexual addiction that correlates with masturbation and this book was written in the thirties.

    As far as a journal, i think thats a great idea. I remember that when I was active on this forum before it helped a lot and kept me motivated. Thanks again for your support and story, I'll check out your journal as well to get even more motivation and take it one day at a time.
     
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  8. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Had a quick question. Did you notice during reboot that your VS got temporarily worse before getting better? Mine has been pretty bad at night the last 2 nights. And i cant tell if its worse or if im just more all round aware of it because of my heighten senses from the reboot. It's giving me a little anxiety at the moment. Thanks
     
  9. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    Hmm...I'm not entirely sure. I seemed to only have the visual snow during the height of a full-blown panic attack, so the VS portion would usually last less than 30 mins at a time. For most of my days, I was just in extreme anxiety, terrified that the next attack was imminent, but not having the visual snow. My impression, now in hindsight, is that VS, along with many other things like hypochondria, depersonalization/derealization, phobias, extreme sensitivity to light and/or sound, hair loss, social fears, etc... are all the symptoms of one cause: anxiety - which releases adrenalin into your blood. That adrenalin wreaks havoc on your nervous system, causing the symptoms I've just mentioned and many others. I was certain I had many different medical conditions - it's because when that adrenalin is coursing through your veins and brain, you have extreme sensitivity to every detail in and around you. You notice the slightest alteration in the beating of your heart, the tiniest ringing in your ears, the normally imperceptible difference of fading daylight changing the hue of color in a room. You are living in sensory overload, and your mind simply cannot keep up with the influx of information it's receiving. In actuality, you do not have heart problems, or vision problems, or brain issues, or whatever it is that you're currently worried about. You have anxiety, which is a completely curable condition.

    So when you mention your heightened senses from the reboot, you are likely feeling your anxiety more fully because normally you use PMO to avoid it. I'm not 100% positive, but I don't believe that simply abstaining from PMO will completely dissolve the anxiety, unless the anxiety is 100% derived from PMO. I think you'll need to abstain from PMO, as well as directly address your anxiety, which may originate from a separate issue.

    I want to see this through with you, completely. I have some questions that might help me know how I can be of better help. You mention that this began around 10 years ago. What was going on in your life around that time? Was there any traumatic event or circumstance? Death of a loved one or close friend? Recent divorce or breakup? Job loss? Was there any trauma, abuse, neglect, bullying, etc.. in your childhood?

    If you want to answer these in a PM please let me know. I completely understand. I can send you a PM that you'll be able to respond to. Just let me know.
     
  10. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Thats very interesting that the VS only occurred while you were in full blown panic mode. I have never read that VS could be temporary like that. How long did you go through the anxiety and its side effects before starting nofap? My memory isn't the best but ill try to recall as best as I can what may have triggered it. As far as I remember I don't think there were any major traumatic events in my life when I was young. Honestly I can say for sure though that I was fapping like a freaking machine around that point(15 years old). I also remember I had a bad attitude most of the time and got angry pretty easily. I also did do drugs around that time like triple c's (dex) and I smoked a lot of pot. I did have some bad trips on the triple c's which looking back at it now were really just panic attacks. That's why on my first non drug induced panic attack it reminded me of when I got high on triple c's.

    I was pretty introverted when I got to a certain age which was probably related to PMO. I didn't like new people and avoided social situations like the plague. As far as VS I always remember having it somewhat at night time specifically as a child, but back then it seemed pretty normal and didnt bother me really. I do remember however that months prior to my full blown panic days, the VS seemed to creep more and more into the daylight hours But i would only notice it in the shadows of a dark room. Still though it didnt really bother me as i was probably too focused thinking about porn and being angry. The day that It all changed for me I remember being extremely pissed off because I was stuck somewhere where i didnt want to be yet I never really expressed my anger I just kept it all inside boiling. It got to the point where I couldnt calm down about it and boom the first panic happened and the rest is history really.

    It seemed that the anxiety was being caused by nothing, it was just there constantly all the time and I couldnt make it go away. and I can completely relate to what you said about being terrified that the next attack would happen soon no matter what. Eventually I did go to cognitive therapy and there I learned all about panic disorders. My therapist diagnosed me with HPPD thinking all of it was related to doing too many drugs never thinking it could have been excessive use of porn. I learned how to live with my condition thinking it was just the way things were going to be which made me feel numb and disconnected for many years to come.

    I can only really think of a few things in my childhood that has affected me in a negative way emotionally which was when my parents, who have been divorced since I was 3, started seeing other people when I was around 8 or 9. Another thing was when I was 14 I had a really bad 4-wheeler accident and suffered from a severe leg injury, and I couldn't walk for 2 months afterwards. Thats all I can think of really though. I guess I can safely say I had a pretty good childhood overall. As I've said my memory is pretty bad, I'll try to think of more things that I can mention to you

    BTW who is the author of the "when panic attacks" book? I cant seem to find it. Thanks also for seeing this through with me. It's very relieving to speak with someone that has gone through this and has come out of it as well. Feel free to PM those other questions, I'm pretty open and will be glad to answer them. Also this Friday will be 3 weeks without nofap! I am seeing some minor changes so far. Life seems somewhat more real to me, colors and what not. Also my skin on my face and scalp is not flaking as bad. I feel more talkative at times but other times I still just want to be alone. Today I actually sang in my car and enjoyed myself for the first time in a long time. I'm really just so excited for the future and can wait to recover from some of these things. Even if its not 100% I know it will help me much more to realize and tackle the other issues I may have in life. Even though rebooting is scary, at least I can feel change for once and not live in a purgatory anymore.

    Actually I do remember now that during a real dark part of my life around 19 years old I didnt fap because I felt so much anxiety it kept me from it for months. I was also going through a pretty big break up with a girl I was with since highschool. Soon after the break up though i remember not want to fap even when I felt good because for some reason I just didn't like the image of me being addicted to it. This is all before I knew what nofap was btw. Anyways I soon broke into a very happy part of my life were I had many friends and I didn't have anxiety anymore. I became a more positive person. That lasted for about 2-3 years. Even though I probably still fapped occasionally It wasn't as much as before and my VS was still there yet it didn't bother me and I probably never noticed it when I wasn't thinking about it. I think slowly I got back into PMO without realizing it and used it as a tool to keep myself feeling good and as a way to deal with stress. As it stands right now. Im not too entirely happy with my life honestly at the moment. But I am still very much hopeful that I can change that and have a bright future ahead of me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2017
  11. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    I'm out of town with limited internet access until Monday. I'll get back to you then.
     
  12. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    I'm guessing that I was having the full-blown anxiety for about 13-17 months? I went to the doctor probably 2 weeks after it started though, and then the ER a few weeks after that. So in some sense, I began trying to actively solve it immediately, without knowing that PMO was so directly responsible.

    I am also an introvert, but I've learned that introvert/extrovert are not caused by anything - neither are bad or good, they are just labels for personality traits. No different than attached earlobes vs non-attached earlobes. There's a tendency to stigmatize introverts as shy or socially inept, but that's not the case with me, especially now that I'm distanced from PMO. I can say that PMO led me to be anti-social, very much so. But now that I don't PMO I'm very confident socially, but I do lose energy from social interaction and gain energy from solitude, which is what defines an introvert.

    I also had very dark anger around the time I began fapping. 14 maybe? I was also very rebellious and daring. I got into drugs around age 18 or 19 and had some very dark times with drugs and alcohol until I was around 24 or 25. I still did drink quite a bit until around 32ish, which is probably around the time streaming internet porn became a thing and I got deeper into that.

    Like you, I also bottled my emotions very tightly and this caused much frustration, anger and depression. I lived with depression essentially my entire life. Some "eras" of my life it got very bad, with suicidal thoughts and much mental anguish. Even then I never really talked about it with anyone. Violent athletics seemed to be a very healthy outlet for me, and I still believe that. It did give me an outlet for much of the anger and frustration, but only while I was training and competing. So I trained and competed excessively - spent as much time as humanly possible completely engrossed in it. Outside of that, in the "real" world, I was a dark, cynical, fringe member of society. I've always had lots of friends, probably do to the passion for athletics.

    The day I had that first panic attack/migraine and the anxiety began: I had been talking to a woman online from another country for several weeks. We had not had any sex chat or video sex or anything, but it was very flirtacious and in many ways I felt like I was falling in love with her. I could feel actual chemistry with her, not just sexual interest. I was married and had been lying to her that I was single and would be able to fly out to visit her. As the days came closer and closer to me not being able to keep up the lie, I began to realize that I couldn't live in this made-up fantasy anymore, that I couldn't leave my wife for this woman, and that I would have to break the heart of someone who I was feeling actual love for and I know felt the same toward me. I remember coming into work that morning and feeling completely empty inside - hollow. I was totally withdrawn and I was very cold, even though the weather was fine. I was sluggish and had hardly any energy to even walk up or down the stairs. I even thought to myself something like "Damn, I must be in a big depression again". Later in the day I was moving some boxes out of my office and that's when I got the blinding aura in my right eye. Within about 3 minutes of that it felt like a levee in my head broke, and all the thoughts that I had been bottling up all came to the forefront of my mind at once. Like having 375 windows open on your PC, with more opening faster than you can close them. The next 13-16 months was me trying to function as a human with all those windows open - all those thoughts plaguing me constantly.

    There's a few things from your history that I'd like to hear more about:
    The day you "snapped" you said you were stuck in a place you didn't want to be. Where were you? Who were you with? Why were you there? Why were you stuck? Why didn't you express your anger about being stuck there?

    Do you remember what you thought or felt about your parents relationship prior to them seeing new people? What were your thoughts and feelings about them after they started new relationships? Did your relationship with either of them change during this time?

    Where on your body do you carry your stress? For example, I tend to carry mine in my neck and shoulders and in my head (tension headaches). Some people carry stress in their stomach and get ulcers and IBS, etc...

    Seeing as you've had the visual snow as far back as you can remember, but it's only of concern to you at times of anxiety (this is how I am with floaters), it seems sensible to be to first work on your anxiety, as it doesn't appear the VS is the cause of the anxiety. Abstaining from PMO and Psubs and learning to experience and process your emotions seems like the healthiest and most direct route to begin elimination of the anxiety. The book "When Panic Attacks" is by David Burns. https://www.amazon.com/When-Panic-Attacks-Drug-Free-Anxiety/dp/076792083X

    I also just came across this link: http://yourbrainonporn.com/age-22-visual-snow-and-brain-fog-99-gone-energy-confidence-way

    Hope you're doing ok!
     
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  13. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Hey thanks for getting back to me. I just want to thank you again for talking to me, it really really helps me. It's been a rollercoaster of a weekend. Im really confused about whether or not I'm experiencing a flatline. My libido is very very low. but not completely gone, I still get urges but it's very rare. My dick is smaller than usual and lifeless looking. I still have rare urges though and I thought that having a flatline makes you have zero urges?

    I haven't had issues with depression ever in my life other than when I'm going through nofap.I had trouble with it tonight but I'll get to that later. My last streak 2 years ago was for 2 months and I experienced depression, my anxiety was almost non existent which was a huge plus. Back then I was mostly battling urges. But now its totally different. Monday I experienced a shift change in my reality, or what you could call my perception of reality. It seemed very positive at the time. It was like all my phobias and fears that I've been suppressing with PMO are now out in the open. I've just been living in this deep rooted fear this whole time that I was suppressing with PMO. Even my visual reality shifted too, I could see colors a little more vividly, overall feeling a little more connected, yet at the same time it was scary being out of my "comfortable numbness" that ive been living in for the past decade. Anyways I completely understood what I needed to do. I need to overcome my negative thought patterns once and for all and replace it with a positive outlook. I've realized that a lot of my suffering through these withdraw symptoms are being exponentially amplified by my negative thoughts. As you've already stated, going through withdraws makes you super sensitive to sensations, well it goes equally well for negative thoughts. This, although, is so much easier said than done. I feel like I've been pessimistic most of my life which may have been derived/exacerbated from PMO. Its been a struggle all day today battling my negative thoughts. I've been "listening" very closely to how I think and I noticed soon after having a worrying/negative thought, it would soon be followed by anxiety or depression. I see this as a major step forward. Even though I've known this for many years from going to cognitive behavioral therapy. It helped a lot back then but I guess somehow I re-developed my bad thought habits. I find myself worrying obsessively about my health and if I'm ever going to get over these fears and if I'll live in this constant state of derealization.

    I'm really interested in your experience with derealization. I think its my biggest problem that im suffering from. I feel like im partially disconnected from all outside stimuli. Was yours constant or did it only happen when you were having panic attacks? And how did you notice your reality change as you were recovering?

    Tonight I had next level anxiety mixed with depression. I thought I was going to lose my mind and was about to delve even deeper into a darkened state of reality. I ended up having to psych myself out of it. I need to get out of my head and focus on things outside myself, otherwise I become obsessive over my condition.

    Anyways, recently its become very confusing to me to be able to differentiate between nofap withdraws and my personal fears. I mean I know they're connected somewhat but it seems detrimental because its overwhelming me at the moment. i feel like im dealing with a lot at once. I know logically in the back of my head that I need to take small baby steps, but I keep finding myself sinking back into the constant worrying state of mind. Honestly what I went through tonight felt a lot like what I was dealing with when I started experiencing panic and anxiety. Except this time it felt like I could think clearly while it was happening which was how I was able to calm down somewhat. (Im still dealing with some anxiety atm while writing this but that may be because writing this is making me think about my ailments)

    Thanks for the book link. I'll try to gather up some money to buy it. I'm currently a full time student with not much means of making money.LOL The other link you posted, I actually posted it in this thread earlier. That was actually the exact post that made me find out about nofap 2 years ago. It is still soothing to read none the less. And it gives me hope, even if I'm currently in a doubtful state of mind.
    Basically I was with my Dad over at one of his friends house where I've never been before. We were over there for several hours. I thought we were about to leave. But he just kept talking and talking and talking. Lol. It infuriated me to say the least and it is the initial anger that lead to my first full blown panic attack. The reason why I didn't express my anger is because I supposed I've never learned how to do it. I was a very outgoing kid in my early, early years. but at some point, and I wish I knew when that point was, I became very shy and quiet. So I guess I would just keep all my anger and negativity inside and didnt have an outlet really.... well besides PMO i suppose. What happened when I "snapped" is really similar to what you said about it being like a levee in your head broke loose and HUGE panic setting in.

    I was very close with both of my parents when I was very young. i would see my dad every weekend and stay with my mom during the week. I basically had two completely different lives I was living I guess you could say. When I was with my mom. I didn't have many friends, I was somewhat more introverted. But when I was with my Dad, I had friends and was more or less extroverted. When they both started seeing other people my relationship dwindled considerably. Im sure around that time (8 years to 12 years) Was when I was starting to PMO a lot. Maybe its connected. But i never really saw PMO as a means of escape really. I just really really liked the way it felt. Back then I had no forms of mental illnesses besides maybe being somewhat antisocial. This is why I really think that PMO has a considerable part in my issues. I feel like I do have separate issues but I think PMO is what sort of helped develop them into chronic issues.

    It varies from place to place. I too carry it in my neck and shoulders. Sometimes its my stomach sometimes I have a tingling/buzzing feeling on the crown of my head. Sometimes however it moves all around my body in times of panic and anxiety. Ive actually in the past developed GERD from my constant state of worry which was mostly acid reflux. I've also developed hemorrhoids from clenching my ass so much which is probably THE major place I hold tension.LOL

    All in all I think I need to make myself somehow realize that there is nothing to be afraid of. there is no real reason I have to be worried or fearful about something. Really I'm just fearing fear itself at times. but like I said before I cant tell if all of this anxiety is from PMO withdraw or if my problems are coming out in the open. Or if its both. Im pretty sure that the depression is part of the withdraw since I've never dealt with that outside of nofap which makes me think that the anxiety may be from that too. I dunno. All I know is that I need positive changes in my life and I've Already started on them

    So far:
    1. been focusing on my posture a lot throughout the day
    2. focusing on deep breathing
    3. listening to meditation videos on youtube (silencing the mind of thoughts)
    4. quit smoking
    5. drinking as much water as I can.
    6. working out daily and/or going outside
    7. thinking postive
    8. cold showers
    9. trying to look people in the eye more and talk more/joke with strangers
    10. being aware and overcoming anger that in the past I would have automatically lashed out at.
    11. I downloaded an app called NF Companion. I use it to keep track of my days but most importantly I used it to write in as my personal journal

    lol so much for baby steps
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  14. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Also I was wondering if you could include me in on some of your techniques for meditation. I've been really wanting to get back into it and I know it can only help me in a positive way. Ive also been reading up on your personal journal on here and its been very helpful so far to me to read what you've gone through :)
     
  15. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    Flatlines don't necessarily mean you have zero urges, but there is a lowered libido. I think the symptoms may vary slightly from person to person, but with mine they have been periods of depression, anxiety, doubts about reboot, sometimes feeling "empty" or like I'm not able to access my emotions, etc... Flatline can last from a day to several months. My longest was probably around 12 days or so. Flatlines can come and go for up to 2 years after you begin abstinence. I've come to think of them like a period of time when my brain is adjusting the dial, like on a radio. It's trying to tune in a good, balanced mood. Then the flatline ends and you live for awhile with this newly balanced self. But the balance wasn't quite right so another adjustment, this time more minor needs to happen. So in comes another flatline.... So each time you go through a flatline it's less severe (assuming you haven't relapsed). It can feel like you're losing your mind or that you may lose control of yourself, but that's just the result of the chemical change during this rebalancing. I assure you that even though it seems that you're going to lose it, you won't. The flatline will just simply end. They always do. Always. And once the flatline ends you feel very good, because you are more rebooted than you were before the flatline. It's like a pendulum. You start reboot with these really large arcs when the pendulum swings, but with each pass it loses inertia, and eventually it will come to a rest, perfectly balanced in the middle.

    It sounds EXACTLY like you are in a flatline. Remember that doubts about reboot are to be expected during all of your flatlines. Remember this now and remember this next month and in six months and in 18 months. Always keep this in mind because the doubts will seem as real as anything. Not sure if I gave you this link yet but here's a rough timeline for post-acute withdrawal: http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/post-acute-withdrawal.htm

    I know exactly what you mean about the shift changes in your perception of reality. I don't know that everyone experiences this, or if only people who've experienced derealization go through that. You may experience this quite a bit. You probably don't realize it since you think you're simply viewing porn, but you've been living in quite a fantasy with all the PMO, with all the feel-good chemicals like dopamine hijacking your brain, this perception shift change is you peeking out at the real world from behind this fantasy. I don't have a great way to put it into words - I don't know the science behind this particular aspect. The farther you get into reboot, the "clearer" and "more realistic" your perception will become. It's not always upwards from a linear perspective though. Reboot happens with ups and downs. Might have 9 days feeling better, 4 days feeling worse, then 11 days better, 3 days worse, then 19 days better, 5 worse, etc... But when you average all the days it is actually getting better all the time.

    Funny you mentioned at some point about thinking maybe your eyesight would get better during reboot. I was hoping the same thing, as my eyesight only became a problem since I "snapped". After that I began to have problems with my visual focus and developed astigmatism in my right eye. These are not serious problems and are very common with people my age, but to me the timing has always seemed odd. I do notice that my ability to focus visually does shift occasionally, and there's even days when I don't need to wear my glasses. But I don't think at this point that my vision will return to 20/20 as it was pre "snap".

    Do whatever it takes to get When Panic Attacks. Rob a liquor store if you have to. There are exercises in there that will alleviate and eventually eliminate the issues you have with anxiety, hypochondria, anger, etc... You really need to pinpoint the origin of your anxiety - obviously it's PMO addiction at the forefront, but I'm betting there's something else. There's an exercise in the book where you keep asking "What's the worst that could happen?" over and over until you arrive at your base fear. You actually write it down. Here's how it worked for me:

    I was freaking out about my PMO addiction. So I wrote down my surface fear.
    I'm afraid I can't control this addiction.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll get caught watching porn or jacking off at work.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    The person who catches me will tell the company president and I'll be fired.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll have to tell my wife and she will freak out and hate me.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    She'll want a divorce. She'll tell all my friends.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll have to move out. I'll have no friends and no job.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll become severely depressed. I'll live in misery constantly.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll kill myself.

    Another surface fear I developed at the time was standing in lines in public.
    I'm afraid of standing in lines in public.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll start to overthink.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll freak out or have a panic attack.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    The people in the store will think I'm a weirdo.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    They'll call 911 and take me to the hospital.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    The doctors will find out I'm crazy or have mental illness.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    They will put me in some type of mental institution.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll lose my job because I'm institutionalized.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    We'll lose our house because I have no income.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    My wife will want a divorce because I can't provide for our family.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll have to move out.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll be alone and miserable.
    What's the worst that can happen?
    I'll kill myself.

    These are legitimate examples of mine from the height of my anxiety. There were many others and they all had that same root fear of being alone, miserable and killing myself. Subconsciously I was automatically thinking of this dire and bleak finality because that's what had happened to my dad. As a child I had at some point developed the belief that children turn out like their parents, and that was some part of my destiny if I were to get married and have a kid. My wife was 7 months pregnant when I "snapped". Coincidence? Probably not.

    So think about it. I subconsciously associated standing in a public line with my own miserable death. No wonder panic attacks feel like you're dying! Standing in that line was going to lead to my suicide!! Of course that's absurd. That's why you write it out during the exercise. Seeing it in print helps you realize how off-base it really is. If I were to have a freak out or a panic attack while standing in a public line, it's likely that someone is going to help . If a did need to go to a hospital, the doctors are going to help me. My wife would be understanding and want to help me. I'm not going to be institutionalized and my job would be understanding if I needed time off for a medial issue. The whole suicide logic is a distortion in my thinking based off a non-accurate belief I formed when I was very young. I am not destined to anything because of my dad's decision. If anything I am more aware of the seriousness of depression and sensitive to getting help when it's needed.

    I've typed too much for now. More later.
     
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  16. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Strength and Light, you are becoming my best friend on here, seriously. This post has shed more light on what I'm going through than anything else I've read so far. I have a pretty busy day today so this one will be a little shorter. But I plan to make a longer response when I can. Im getting further behind in school than I want to. I do want to say that my vision when very south after my brain "snap" and before that I had 20/20 vision as well. I also developed astigmatisms in one eye and later in the other. My eye doctor, who I have an appointment with in the next week or so, told me last time there is a contact you can wear at night while you sleep that re-shapes your eye and when you wake up you take the contact out and you can see clear for the rest of the day. And if you do this for a couple weeks, eventually your eye returns to the proper shape. Maybe you can ask about it to your doctor. I plan on trying it sometime in the future. Don't know how expensive it is though.

    I wanted to know your thoughts on X A N A X and its effect on reboot. My dad gave me one last night because my body was really feeling beat down and my anxiety wouldn't subside and I needed to relax otherwise I felt like I would have no energy today to do anything. I know they are very addicting and I'm generally against all pills/medications so I know I'll be very careful. Im just wondering if it would slow down or hinder the healing process in the brain. Also if you have any recommendation on what I could take for moments that absolutely just too much to handle. I dont really want to get prescribed something I have to take daily. I mean I want to feel the pain and want to endure it somewhat, But its really starting to affect my school work, and it doesnt help that everything I do is on a computer.

    Also I wanted to know what meditation techniques you use personally. I know a lot of people swear by it on here and I'm interested in starting it myself. Thanks again for your input on all of this. I know that it has been taking time to write every thing and I can't express enough how appreciative I am for it. Hope you have a great day!
     
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  17. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    Wow that's crazy about the astigmatism. After reading your reply, I did a google search for causes of sudden astigmatism. Most sites sort of mirror WebMD's explanation, which doesn't seem to have any relevance to emotional bottling like in our cases. Then I found these links:
    http://www.purevisionmethod.com/astigmatism-causes/
    http://www.flowsandforms.com/astigmatism/
    http://www.chinesefootreflexology.c...nship-between-thoughts-emotions-and-eyesight/
    http://ezinearticles.com/?Glaucoma,...-Emotions-Related-to-Poor-Eyesight&id=3090439

    These actually make a lot of sense to me. A whole lot. More later.
     
  18. ZenPool

    ZenPool Fapstronaut

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    Wow that is eye opening. No pun intended. It always seems like there is a holistic way to heal most anything. Stress can do so many harmful things in more ways than we know. Let me know how you're going to go forward with this new information. Did I read correctly that it's better not to wear glasses? I've been unconsciously been wanting to not wear my glasses recently.
    Also I ordered that book today should be here hopefully in two days.
     
  19. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    I don't really have an opinion of Zanax. I was given a small amount of low-dosage A T I V A N when I first reported my anxiety to the doctor. I was really afraid to use it (I was afraid of everything! lol), but I did take it from time to time if I was freaking out and needed to drive home from work or something. I'd say I maybe took 8 or 10 over the course of 15 months. I was over-analyzing everything at that point so I'm not sure what my true assessment of it even is.

    That's awesome you ordered the book! I'm going to re-read it when I have time here and there.

    I don't have much time in front of the computer today or this weekend, but I promise to fill you in on my experience on meditation and my new thoughts on astigmatism and eyesight. The meditation isn't used as a spot-treatment for anxiety, so I'm not denying you any instant relief by waiting until Monday. If in the meanwhile you are looking for more of a spot-treatment for panic or anxiety, start practicing belly breathing. Here's a link: http://www.anxietycoach.com/breathingexercise.html

    Have a great weekend and I'll get back to you soon!
     
  20. Strength And Light

    Strength And Light Fapstronaut

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    Ok let's start with meditation. I'm not a new-age guy, a hippie sort, or religious in any way. The only reason I started to practice meditating is because when I was having problems with anxiety, derealization, rumination, etc.. and I would google search treatments for those conditions, I would almost always see meditation listed and recommended. Prior to The Snap I thought meditation was kind of weird and for people living a very different life than I.

    So I wanted to meditate but had no idea how. I bought a book called "Wherever You Go, There You Are". It's a simply written book that introduces meditation for people in the modern world. The main points I got from the book are that there really is no exact right way to meditate, and that essentially what you are doing is practicing allowing your mind to settle down to the point of experiencing yourself as "you" and not as all the thoughts that come and go in your head that you probably mistake as "you".

    At first, if you have never meditated, it is pretty weird. I had serious anxiety at the time and it seems I had some resistance to taking the time to actually sit down and do it. I started by sitting upright, with my eyes closed lightly and would just gently focus on my breathing. You want to breathe completely naturally, which is weird at first when you are focused on your breathing, but it does get easier with practice. You essentially just sit quietly and keep your awareness on your breath. Feel the air slowly draw into your nose. Notice it moves through your throat and into your lungs. Continue holding your focus on the brief moment while your lungs are expanded and as the air slowly comes back up your throat and out of your nose. This is not a forced focus, you don't want to be straining at all - just easy, gentle focus on your breath and breathing.

    Now, what will happen as you try to focus on your breath, is that you will be pestered with thought. It's VERY difficult to hold your focus for more than a few seconds at first. You will end up thinking about a million other things besides your breathing. That's to be expected. When a thought comes into your mind and interrupts your focus, simply and gently let go of it and return your focus to your breathing. At first it is pretty difficult to let the thoughts go, but with practice you will get better. This "letting go" has the cumulative effect of doing a push-up. When you practice doing push-ups you slowly become stronger physically. When you practice "letting go" of thoughts, you become more focused mentally, and much less swayed emotionally by your thoughts. Without meditation it's easy to be an emotional beach ball, easily bounced around by every passing thought, and never having control of your direction.

    I started by practicing for about 5-7 minutes each morning, and about 5-7 minutes sometime after work. Now, 2 years later, I practice about 13-18 minutes twice a day - once after my drive to work, and once in the afternoon during my lunch hour. I just recline my car seat all the way back and meditate while laying comfortably. There are no rules for your body position, but you do want to have an open, easy airflow and you don't want to be so comfortable that you fall asleep. I've done that. I set a timer on my phone so that I don't have to think about time at all while I'm meditating, since thinking about time is going to pull your focus away from your breathing.

    One of the biggest benefits of practicing meditation is that you'll develop the ability to recognize and dismiss negative, unnecessary, counter-productive, distorted, ect... thoughts. Thoughts are always going to occur in your brain, but when you consistently practice letting thoughts go, it become much easier to recognize and recover yourself from them, even if they are unhealthy thoughts. Another fantastic benefit is that with enough practice, you will get in touch with the real "you". You will have stretches where you can focus very well on your breath, and you'll become aware during those times that without all those thoughts distracting you, you are in fact actually at peace, and being a human is really a peaceful experience when you don't allow negative or distorted thoughts to burden you. I've now meditated enough that I know without question that I can be at peace regardless of circumstance. If I lose my legs in a car accident, my peace will not be compromised. If my daughter is kidnapped by ISIS, my internal peace is not broken or destroyed. I would of course be struck with all the negative and painful thoughts that accompany these terrible circumstances, but if I were to sit and focus on my breath, my peace is still there, unharmed. It's only the negative and painful thoughts that cause the suffering, and even then the peace is not disturbed, it's merely pushed into the background where it's not actively experienced. This is a bit of an advanced concept since you're just starting out, but I did want to mention it.

    By practicing meditation, you will pretty quickly learn to "see" your thoughts. This is really important. Being more conscious of your thoughts is what is called being "mindful". Mindfullness has a host of benefits for your life.

    Ok, so now about the eyesight. After I read your post about developing the astigmatisms right after The Snap, I became convinced that those links were right. It makes sense that since your eyes just relay the light they take in to your brain, that if the brain interprets what you see as overly stressful or dangerous, then your brain will do what it can to eliminate the eyes' ability to see, thus eliminating the stress. In the months leading up to my Snap, I began to develop headaches, which I thought were from eyestrain from using the computer. I took Advil everyday. By about 10:30am I would have the conscious thought that my eyes were just tired of seeing. This always struck me as a very odd thought. It wasn't that I was thinking, "Jeez, my vision is blurry. I wonder if I need glasses?" Instead, it was more like, "God, it's still morning and I just want to shut my eyes until the day is over. My eyes are literally tired of looking at the world." It makes sense now why I had to wear sunglasses at my office. That was where I was doing the cybersex. Think about it, if my brain could have eliminated my sight altogether and had made me blind, my anxiety would have gone away because I wouldn't have been able to be addicted and out of control with porn and cybersex.

    So since I read your post about developing astigmatism, I have not worn my glasses. It was weird at first because I'm used to them now, and I felt naked without them. But within about 14 hours all the pressure in my right eye went away. That was Thursday (I think). Today is Monday and the pressure has not returned. I am 95% convinced that I no longer have the astigmatism and that it will not return. I did always think it was weird that when I had my eyes shut in bed at night that I could still feel pressure from the astigmatism. Why would I feel it when my eyes weren't even being used?

    I spent Thursday and Friday very aware of my sight and my focus. Almost like when you lose a tooth and your tongue keeps going to the hole where the tooth was. My focus kept being on my vision - how clear things were up close, far away, how long it took to focus when changing from far to close or vice versa. I noticed it did take a sort of perception shift in order to bring about a clearer vision in my eyesight. It's like I had to empty my head of preconceived notions of people and instead observe things as they actually are and make new assessments. It's hard to describe - I stopped forcing things to fit into my pre-interpretations and instead allowed new, more accurate interpretations to come to me. God this is weird trying to put this into words.

    On Friday afternoon I got some light sparkles (aura), like I do get before an oncoming migraine, and I got some tingling sensations in my right temple. I think this was my brain adjusting to not having the glasses. I never got the migraine or the migraine hangover. I felt very good this weekend - great actually. I never got any type of headache, but I did still have some bit of tricky focus with my vision, depending on the situation. I did an hour run on Saturday and my long-distance vision was pretty blurry. I think it will take a few weeks before I can do a real assessment on my eyesight from a focus standpoint. If I had to take a guess, I'd say my vision (which I'm now finding out is not very bad), will probably become 20/20 again, or very close to it. I'll keep you posted.

    I don't know if I can advise you to stop wearing your glasses, but it's worth considering because you mentioned you've been having an unconscious thought to do so. Very interesting. If indeed the astigmatisms were just our brains trying to eliminate the sight of our distressing PMO habits, then we are dealing with a level of holistic healing via reboot that I had no comprehension was even possible. Amazing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
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