Are these sharp ups and downs normal?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Mr. Kruger, Aug 7, 2021.

  1. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    The nightmares can be really disruptive sometimes. but they are still a good sign nonetheless. I just hate that my nightmares always have to revolve around my two phobias: spiders and deep water lol.
    Thanks! You too! I got hit with some really intense urges in the last few days and suffered some insomnia as a result. But when I did manage to get to sleep last night, I had some really vivid dreams. The urges were minimal when I woke up this morning, and my mind feels sharper than it has in months. I have a theory that your brain is getting really desperate when it hits you with those tremendous urges, and the biggest leaps in rewiring occur when you deny those ones. Those pivotal junctures in one's recovery would probably be the worst time to relapse.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2021
  2. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    I think it's because your brain gets that dump of dopamine that it has been wanting so badly. Like I said on another post in this thread, once you give your brain that little taste of dopamine that it's been hassling you for, it will set you back even further in your recovery to trick you into getting back into it on a regular basis.
     
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  3. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    I just came back to say that I had a really intense wet dream two weeks ago, and I'm still stuck in a flatline from that. I've never been hit this hard by a wet dream before. I know it was the wet dream that caused it because when I woke up the morning after it happened, I just had this really low, groggy feeling that hasn't completely lifted since it happened. I got several outbreaks of acne all around my nose and chin, and I notice that I've been sweating a lot for no reason even though the weather has been mild lately.

    I remember reading somewhere about a year ago that wet dreams are kind of like a recalibration cycle that upregulates the dopamine receptors and androgen receptors. What are your thoughts on that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
  4. If wet dreams can set you back this far, I'd say you still have a long way to go in your reboot.
     
  5. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that I very seldom get wet dreams. I only seem to get one like every four or five months. Maybe the people who get them more frequently don't feel the impact quite as much.
     
  6. mentorr

    mentorr Fapstronaut

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    I honestly think 2-3 weeks to recover from a flatline is about right for our recovery timeline. I say that loosely simply because I have little to no research (or cases) to go on. My question would be; are you making any specific lifestyle changes (gym, diet etc.) to hasten the flatline process? What were your previous wet dream/flatline symptoms like? Do you have any milestone symptoms to tell you how deep into the flatline you are?

    Everyone's journey is undoubtedly going to be different, but I think it makes sense to try and focus on personal experiences to attempt to get an idea of what is happening in our recovery.

    I am 26 months into recovery (with a handful of Orgasms via sex) and have just hit a 200 day streak. Of the past 200 days I have only experienced 2 wet dreams. Prior to that, I experienced 1 other wet dream. That is a total of 3 wet dreams in the past 2 years of recovery, all of which pushed me back into the flatline every time. Prior to NoFap I may have experienced no more than 3 wet dreams in my entire lifetime.
    • The first wet dream occurred on day 137, and took a total of 20 days to recover from.
    • The second wet dream occurred on day 182, which I recovered from literally a few hours ago (17 days in total)
    Judging by the number of days between my first and second wet dream, I don't think it is unreasonable to estimate that a wet dream will take me around 3 weeks to recover from going forward. This could be 100% wrong, but at this point I am simply basing it on the very little information I have. To take it a step further, 45 days passed between my first and second wet dream. The first flatline lasted 20 days, and the second flatline 17 days. A 3 day flatline length difference after 45 days. Our aim is to reach a 0-day refractory period after ejaculation, meaning our bodies do not need 2-3 weeks to return to homeostasis after ejaculation. As we reboot, it would be only natural for this refractory period to decrease very gradually. With that in mind, it could be suggested that every 45 days, my refractory period could decrease by around 3 days. If this is true, I would be looking at approx. another 9 months before I reach a 0-day refractory period after ejaculation. Based on my current symptoms, and where I feel I am in recovery, I don't think this is very far from the truth. By 0 refractory period, I mean sexual functioning returning to normal.

    Sorry @Mr. Kruger I have used my own scenario simply because I familiar with it. What I am getting at is maybe by reviewing your wet dream and flatline timelines, you might be able to get a better sense of your bodily cycle as well as a guesstimate of where you land in terms of recovery.
     
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  7. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    I do work out as often as I can when I'm not too fatigued. I'd say my diet is pretty good; I eat food made with fresh ingredients and don't eat processed foods very often. I eat an adequate amount of vegetables and fruits. No caffeine at all. I'm also very strictly anti-sugar.

    I'd say this flatline I'm currently experiencing is the least severe out of any that I have ever had. With my earliest flatlines, I would get a lot of physical symptoms like headaches, pains all over my body, flu-like symptoms, and severe digestive problems. I'm experiencing none of those things right now; I'm only experiencing some mild depression and lethargy this time around. Even that aspect is a slight improvement over previous flatlines because the flatlines that would consume me in the early stages of my reboot would result in severe depression, lethargy, and irritability. In short, when I hit a flatline now, I feel like I'm getting off pretty easy compared to my earlier flatlines.

    Does all of this revolve around the refractory period and sexual exhaustion though? I don't doubt that some of it does, but don't the dopamine receptors play a significant role in this as well?

    I've seen a lot of people on this forum say that wet dreams can definitely be a good sign though because it's an indicator that your sexual function is gradually returning to homeostasis. And there was one user who wrote a lengthy post on his theory about how wet dreams are kind of like a recalibration cycle that upregulates the dopamine receptors and androgen receptors, kind of like your body is going through a second puberty to reset your hormonal and neurological functions to factory settings. I really wish I could find that post again because it was interesting. I remember having one wet dream in the spring of 2020, and I noticed a major leap in my recovery about three or four weeks after that.
     
  8. mentorr

    mentorr Fapstronaut

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    But then were your older flatlines a) relapse induced b) wet dream induced or just part of recovery. If your recent wet dream had been ejaculation via masturbation instead, do you still think the severity of your flatline would be the same?

    I do think that the desensitization of our dopamine receptors plays a key role in sexual exhaustion. But in terms of our lengthened refractory period after ejaculation, I think there are potentially more pieces to the puzzle. By more pieces to the puzzle, I mean that it might not just be dopamine that is causing the extended time needed for recovery from ejaculation. Up until now, the chemical cause of the refractory period remains unknown to scientists, however if we imagine our brain function as a machine gun, that consistently shoots (or releases) neurochemicals such as dopamine (or bullets), surely at some point the machine gun is going to overheat. At that point, the machine gun has reached its limit, and needs time to cool down. The more the machine gun overheats, the more time needed for it to cool down.

    My point is, what use are our dopamine receptors, if the central nervous system is also recovering? I just think our focus is heavily on the dopamine side of things, without considering the system that actually houses the neurochemicals and hormones that are being released. As always this could all be a reach, but dopamine desensitisation/deficiency does not sound like the cause of sharp emotional ups and downs during recovery.

    While I haven't seen any hard evidence on this, I somewhat noticed the same thing. After both wet dreams I felt like there was indeed a jump in recovery by means of a slight improvement in cognition, memory and general well-being.
     
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  9. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    Relapse-induced flatlines were always the worst for me. But early on in my recovery, I would sometimes end up in really steep flatlines for no reason at all, and this never happens now.
    Yeah, I absolutely agree with everything you said here. A lot of people on this forum tend to focus solely on the dopamine aspect, and I think those people are short-term addicts who hadn't been addicted for long enough to have fapped themselves to the point of sexual exhaustion. I think for the long-term addicts, the issue is a multifaceted problem involving dopamine receptors, androgen receptors, and the central nervous system in general.

    I notice how you said that scientists are still unaware of what the chemical cause of the refractory period is. Isn't this something to do with the sharp rise in prolactin following ejaculation? I think I remember reading that somewhere.
    I noticed the same thing a few times last year. There would usually be a bit of a mini-flatline slump following the wet dream, but then I would notice some improvements after I came out of that and would generally feel slightly better than I did prior to the wet dream.

    When I woke up yesterday, I felt pretty good for about four or five hours; I was motivated to run some errands that I had been putting off last week when I felt kind of low. After that, I hit some unexpected lows for a few hours and didn't feel like doing much. The recovery process is so unpredictable.
     
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  10. What I notice about the reboot is sexual exhaustion. Like the nerves are repairing and my body eat up the sperms produced in the testicles. And I feel better than before, then the pain back again like there was no progress at all.

    My back starting from upper used to have a big void and I couldn't stand on my two feet without being tired. Now it's the lower part getting fixed. Also I've noticed it'd take a good 3-5 months for progress to be made for each wave of symptoms.
     
  11. mentorr

    mentorr Fapstronaut

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    I think for those of us that have abused our dopamine system severely, we experience a somewhat heavy flatline. For the first year of rebooting, I would spontaneously enter flatline for months at a time. I am also hoping that that period has passed!

    Up until January of this year, scientists believed that prolactin was the main cause of the refractory period. But according to a recent study, the suggestion is that prolactin does not contribute to the refractory period. So basically prolactin really isn't the cause.

    Do you ever count your up and down days? As in, how many consecutive good days do you have to bad?
     
  12. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    I wasn't keeping track of this early on in my recovery; however, I did start recently. But I am having a lot more positive phases than I did even a year ago. It's taking a while to get there, but I'm pretty certain that I'm making progress. At this point, my physical withdrawal symptoms and physical ailments that were caused by PMO have pretty much vanished, and I'm just trying to persevere through the psychological effects of withdrawal now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  13. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

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    https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...long-years-life-has-fallen-apart-help.316993/
    Would you please read this.. I think i have been experiencing the nearly same symptoms since the last 9 years.. Please give this a read and tell me if you see any similarities.. We can pinpoint the cause of all this fatigue nausea and eating disorder as PMO.. Id really appreciate your help
     
  14. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

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    https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...long-years-life-has-fallen-apart-help.316993/
    Please give this a read.. I neee your help!!
     
  15. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

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    https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...long-years-life-has-fallen-apart-help.316993/
    Please read this whenever its convenient for you and tell me if these symptoms were experienced by you or not.. Id really appreciate the help..
     
  16. Cyberpunk3000

    Cyberpunk3000 Fapstronaut

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  17. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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  18. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

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    This is a great thread. Can't believe I didn't find it sooner. I've been having doubts about the PAWS vs sexual exhaustion thing for some time. There is overlap with both, but I think I've been suffering from exhaustion for pretty much my entire adult life, whereas PAWS has been a more recent thing for me.

    One thing I'm struggling with is anxiety about what I've put my body through over the years. Bear in mind I'm 50, so a lot of PMO miles on the clock. At the end of the day I guess there isn't much point in worrying about it, because the only thing I can do is live a sober life and do my best with everything else, and what happens, happens. But reading stuff like this is a sharp reminder of the fact that I've lived a hard life in some respects, and it has caught up with me. I'm just hoping that I can get back to something like "normal", and have a good few decades of life left to live.
     
  19. Dave G 123

    Dave G 123 Fapstronaut

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    This maybe resonates with me more than anything. I've been through so much avoidable sh*t with doctors and the medical system. If I'd just had that one piece of knowledge back in the day (that PMO was the cause of my many problems) then the last 30 years of my life would have been so much better. Map that on to the next generation, and there is a huge amount of avoidable misery in progress - all the more so because the technology is more immersive, stimulating and addictive than the magazines that got me hooked in my teens.
     
  20. Mr. Kruger

    Mr. Kruger Fapstronaut

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    There definitely is a point where the two seem to overlap; it's difficult to tell where one ends and the other begins.
    I'm sure you can get back to normal eventually, but it might take a bit of time. From what I've read on here, the longer you were addicted, the longer it takes to reboot your brain. It's a long and arduous journey for all of us, but what other choice is there? I'd rather be going through this than be back where I was two years ago. I've noticed such dramatic improvements in the last two years that it's motivation to keep persevering through the inevitable slumps of recovery.
    I can really relate to this. I lost my teens, twenties, and early thirties to mysterious health problems that I didn't know were caused by PMO all along. It makes my head spin when I think of all the years I wasted going to all sorts of doctors and having pointless tests done. All I needed to do was quit PMO; that's all it would've taken to get myself back on track when I was 14 years old. Quitting this addiction would've been so much easier back then too because I would have been quitting after only being addicted for a short amount of time; instead, it took me almost two decades to figure out what the problem was. If only I had figured it out back then, I wouldn't be so behind in life right now. There's nothing I can do at this point but hope that reincarnation is true; I can't handle the notion that I had to live a wasted life just because I unwittingly fell into a trap when I was an ignorant adolescent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021

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