Are you ready to give up your tastes in music?

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I will give up my music tastes

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  2. maybe

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. Never-- pried out of my cold dead hands

    11 vote(s)
    64.7%
  1. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    I have been taught that everything I watch, eat, do is to be for God. Currently I’m rebelling against that and my journal shows evidence of that.

    Many religious apply this purity rule to sex and sexual behavior.

    But many do not apply this in music.

    Why not ?


    Does it make sense to listen to whatever music you want?

    Doesn't music and dance "trigger" and stem from similar limbic functions in the brain?

    Not trying to start a bible-verse copy/paste war, I'm wondering why music gets a pass? Should it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  2. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    When we are baptized into the Kingdom, our ears get baptized, too! So, of course music must be put on the altar.

    I started listening to exclusively instrumental music a while back for just this reason.The lyrics of many songs that were running through my head each day mostly unconsciously were not that helpful, I found. So, I just quit listening to music with lyrics. I know many who have made similar choices.

    I don't do this from any sort of religious duty or obligation. It's purely practical: If I want to be filled with good things, I cannot also be filled with unhelpful things. The bad will spoil the good if they get all mixed up. So, a steady diet of good things -- food, sounds, thoughts, feelings, etc. -- is the way only way to go if we want to enjoy the peace and joy that are promised to all who dwell in the Kingdom.

    Further up and further in!
     
  3. Batty Belfry

    Batty Belfry Fapstronaut

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    I know that some religions, for example, ban dancing, something seen as secular and not with any religious purpose. There is Christian Pop and Rock music that found a middle ground, but with anything, it starts with intention. Lyrics and music are possibly being treated separately, seeing damnation, spirituality, or a lost soul trying to find his way between the two.

    Religion comes with good intentions, but the issue of control and misuse of that religion is what informs the "that's-the-devil's-music" mentality.
    Other times it is dealing with interpretation, which taken literally, evenly, or progressively will garner different meanings or intentions.

    Music is like food, you might not like it and that is okay, you don't have to listen to it. If someone else decides to listen to it willingly, it is not our decision or our means of intervention. Of course, voice your concern but do not force to change anyone's mind. You can share the Good News, but leave the decision to share in the Good News up to the listener.

    There is a graphic novel I read that reminded me of this topic called, Blankets by Craig Thompson. I think you would enjoy the read.
     
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  4. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    I have the opposite problem. Instumental music lets me fantasize about whatever I want. Also its also some of the most intensely emotional music on the planet. I found this one this week. I love it.
     
  5. Infrasapiens

    Infrasapiens Fapstronaut

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    Synthwave is all I have and I won't let it go.
    cbfa4c4e7f5087a3009d30cf3ddcad8f.png
     
  6. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    No. From a religious perspective, there are types of songs and pieces of music that can be spiritually harmful, similar to how loud, fast-paced music makes you drive faster and wilder, often leading to accidents.
    Music is strongly linked to the soul as it isn't exactly materialistic. Hence, the words and tunes sink in. If you listen to bad words, morally problematic ideas and so forth, these things will sink in to your soul and harm you.
     
  7. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Fapstronaut

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    I'm a hip hop fan, but sometimes I do find the lyrics contradict my faith. I'm not sure what I will do yet...
     
  8. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Good points here--

    Music, commercially, is not "either/or" though. Let's take lyrics out for a second.

    Think about the following musical examples:
    • Your favorite scary movie with a creepy soundtrack. Use Jaws , if you have no ideas.
    • 3 stooges with a ragtime piano backing tune, quirky, flirty, flappers.
    • General Hospital, Days of our lives, or any other mushy soap opera music: (lots of slow strings, bright piano keys sounds, use of chromatic scale, but with suspended chords).
    • Underground Speakeasy Gastropub: (lots of flats, heavy use of blues scale, doo wops)
    • Imagine a snazzy, Retiree's cruise, lots of jazz, swing dancing.
    • Sugary-breakfast food commercials, lots of zip and peedoodah. (i made that word up, but you see Tony the Tiger, Fruity pebbles and Coco puffs right and their theme songs "they're grrrrrreattttt"?)
    • Last example, you are in the dentist waiting room. You are going to have a root canal. What kind of music do you LEAST want to hear? Why?

    All these genres are secular, with little to no lyrics, but they create a feeling. I can (for example) create feelings without words on the keyboard. I used to do this a lot when I would write music. I didn't do this as much when i did commercial music, but it's definitely not a myth. Switching out the star wars theme song for the Jaws theme with the runs beings so diverse for example, would be a disaster scenario in both films.

    I say this, and use those "benign" (non-lyrical) commercial examples to show that music can generate feelings yes.

    I have a very old friend who scores films (music) and just like the examples above, music isn't interchangeable, but when we sprinkle holy water-marketing on it, we certainly want it to be. The Christian-insert music genre here is a very smart move quite honestly.

    I accept that we have Christian entertainment like pure-flix, so maybe that's the best designation for it?
     
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  9. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    @need4realchg this is the point I was making about emotion. God is in our feelings and for that reason he is in all music regardless of the artists intention. This also strikes at the philosophical question of the nature of art. Is it interpreted through the eyes of those who create it or consume it...or neither? When I listen to the despair of a person screaming in anger from a punk song I can easily be reminded of the prophets screaming out against sin in the Bible or the despair and agony poured out by David. That might not be the band's intention, but after they release their art it's mine for the consumption and interpretation (or is it?). That's partially why I rarely judge artists for what they create. Again, I love this topic.
     
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  10. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    I see your point, but perhaps there's two issues being conflated.
    1) holy versus unholy music.
    2) Feelings versus worship

    Let's deal with #2 first, Feelings are universally felt, is this what you mean?

    We grew up with Michael Jackson's "we are the world."
    It was the first song I figured out how to play by ear at 9. It has this "universal" God is in everything vibe, almost pantheistic both in lyrics and tune.

    Does the global/universal nature of emotions in music make all music equal?

    Lots of music was made in memoriam after 9/11.
    certainly that music was felt powerfully correct?

    Would you say that songs created in death are valued the "same" as music made for new life, such as a lullabye?

    Now let's discuss #1, holy vs unholy music:

    Let's use national anthems.
    Again, lets use instrumental--national anthem but we switch our anthem for any other song, does it mean the same?
    Would people "feel" offended generally?
    I could say...it's just music, I even could rewrite words of the anthem to the tune of "jingle bells" and spread USA all over it. Would it become "holy" to the populace awaiting to hear the "sacred" O say can you see?"

    I would submit to you music is not interchangeable in a commercial sense hardly at all, thus it behooves me to suggest it cannot purely subjective in the spiritual sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  11. letter

    letter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    You guys know that this topic is in the Bible? It’s just under the guise of another form: food.

    There was debate on what was proper & holy consumption of food. Given the era where they were fresh out of Judaism with strict rules as what to eat & how, it was quite a hot issue. Paul settles it by saying, essentially, let each person’s conscious guide them. If someone believes it is best to only eat vegetables, let them eat vegetables. Let the one who is free to eat anything to that. Don’t cause your weaker brother to stumble in your freedom.

    Why did Paul say that? It goes back to the prophet Jeremiah who foretold the New Covenant, where instead of the law being written on stone it would be written upon our hearts.

    Music falls into this same thing. Are there forms of music that are harmful? You betcha. But the focal point now is the relationship of our heart with the substance. @Max Fisher brought up excellent examples of this. Some things that inspire holy contemplation in him may not be similarly appreciated by others.

    So do we regime musical tastes? No, that’s going back to the Old Covenant. But what about people who are listening to bad music & it is having a bad effect on them? Let a spiritual person who is wise help their brother out. If you aren’t that person, pray for your brother.

    Our hearts are too wondrous to be confined to the thoughts of what one thinks should be right. The law used to reside in the Ark of the Covenant. Now it resides in you. This is why we are called temples of the Holy Spirit, for the Ark resided in the temple with the law.

    It changes everything. Food. Music. Life.
     
  12. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

  13. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    Absolutely not! Everyone knows Steely Dan is the best band to have ever existed. This is common knowledge.

    I agree with the first part but not the second. Music is purely subjective...wait...scratch that. Music is only good if I say it is. I declare myself the Pope of music from this day forth ;).

    Seriously though I get your point and I'd love to hear the argument but it will be a tricky one. At least in my church you have to remember that we literally commissioned some of the greatest pieces of art in the western world. Both in music and the visual arts. Despite our commissioning them for the express purpose of worship many people don't see them that way, so interpretation is still the key. Not to mention at a certain grand scale, they become works belonging to humanity not just The Church. Art transcends...that's one argument that all of it could be "Godly" in a sense.
     
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  14. Augie

    Augie Fapstronaut

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    Music shouldn’t get a free pass when it comes to morality or your duty towards the content.

    A great talk about this subject is, from a Christian perspective, can be found here.

     
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  15. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 are the relevant texts, I believe. An old Pharisee like myself (working each day to reform his ways) must revisit them often. :)
     
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  16. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    Judging a culture as refined because their music appeals to the "will" is kinda dubious. Classical music = appeals to the will = refined, sounds a little off. He mentions the human voice being pious yet I read between the lines to understand he is meaning "proper" or "western" or "Catholic" vocal chanting. Chanting from other "degenerate" cultures which are unrefined are just appealing to base appetites. I'm not quite buying it on certain levels.

    Principle of the integral good is an interesting thing. It still doesn't remove interpretation. He is explaining that one thing immoral within a work makes the whole work immoral. He even cited immodesty which I find really interesting as I look up pictures of the Sistine Chapel...I'm sure our reformed brothers would have a lot of pointing out of statues and holy works of art that violate that principle...according to them.

    "A man who is effeminate is a man who won't do the tough thing". He is suggesting that females will not do the tough thing? I'd be curious to ask Mary that in heaven.

    "If you are a man, you give it up = effeminate" in other words women can't accomplish these things? This is an odd perspective.o_O

    I like some of what he is saying, but lots of it kinda seems like a form of musical phrenology backed up with philosophical words and anecdotes. When he talked about classical music I laughed thinking about A Clockwork Orange and Beethoven's Glorious Fifth....so intellectual :p.

    I definitely agree there are certain times and places for music. I liked that.
     
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  17. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    "Some of the older stuff is less problematic (folk and country)"
    "Big bass drums or trap set, are not going to help your spiritual life"
    ...sounds like a mild boomer/cultural bias.
     
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  18. Hero:HOPE

    Hero:HOPE Fapstronaut

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    Check out NF. Thank me in a week. Check out his album mansion.
     
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  19. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

    Yeah I'm divorcing electro and rock and rap and funk, well I allow myself to listen to instrumentals sometimes, I really enjoy classical pieces of piano or others, even OSTs. Some good worship music also, like that one:
    The irony is that I write and cut or compose Christian hip-hop occasionaly when I have nothing to do.

    But abstinence from music can be beneficial in the long run I think.

    A Christian is called to be at peace, and the Bible supports music however godly one, not a psychopathic beat of some dubstep I guess.
     
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  20. Hero:HOPE

    Hero:HOPE Fapstronaut

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    Yare Yare Daze
    First World problems on another level... but an interesting conversation
    Don't you have anything else to do?
     
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