Atheist Point of View

A group of agnostic and atheist fapstronauts to get come together chat about recovery.

  1. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    I wrote this down awhile back and I think it still accurately describes how I perceive my existence. I used to not really like the term Atheist because I felt it had a negative connotation, however it is the term that most accurately describes by beliefs. I am certainly an atheist even as opposed to being agnostic. However I have come to terms with this stance and have tried to see what many would consider a pessimistic view through a hopeful lens. Any responses are welcome: I am firm with my beliefs but am not easily offended and always keep an open mind. I wrote this about a year ago deep 100+ days into a nofap streak and was just thinking about my life and its trajectory. I was asked to write an essay about my religious views in which I took a more traditional Atheist view, however it was not until I later watched a film in the same class that indirectly caused me to see my beliefs in a newfound light:

    Reccently finished watching "Waking Life" this was an incredibly interesting film that evoked deep thought in me in regards to what happens after death. The movie proposed a scenario that was particularly enthralling: essentially after death, you continue living in a dream state unable to awaken. I like this idea, and it gives me a new perspective however my thoughts on the matter remain the same. I believe our conscious minds cease to exist completely after death because the neurological processes that allow us to dream will quit working. There is no afterlife and we cease to think after death. However there were two other concepts proposed in the film: this seemingly flawed world is actually perfection, and we cant understand and live life simultaneously. The idea that we face a grim fate is actually beautiful in my eyes. The way we are brought into the world randomly and spontaneously for an extremely brief time is absolutely amazing. I am ecstatic to be able to experience it even if its only once and for a very short time. To me this is perfection. I wouldn't have it any other way. I accept my fate and would rather know the truth than live a life devoted to false hope. I accept, nay, look forward to life. There will be good times and bad, but its the way of life. I will see those dear to me perish, and witness the fervor of youth I now firmly grasp slowly fade. But alas! how great my life is going to be. I will continue to see my intellect grow. I will graduate from school, own my own house, make new friends, have a wife I love very much and grow old with, have kids who I will love no matter what, I will be fulfilled in my life. And when the time comes for me to die... I will look fondly on my life and feel great having lived. I will embrace the eternal darkness that will envelope me and not feel sorrow when my time has come. I wouldn't want it any other way. This is my destiny and I couldn't be happier or more mystified by the beauty of life and nature. Life is worth living, and these imperfections are what make the world perfect.
     
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  2. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    This should naturally give rise on the one hand to the idea that you are not your own cause, and on the other hand, it should give rise to a desire to give gratitude to the Cause of your being.

    How is it possible that such a spontaneous feeling could be repressed? I'd suggest a preconceived ideology... or a conformity to what most people think.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  3. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    I believe my existence is derived from nothing more than processes that can be explained logically and just by mere chance (no conscious entity or greater power is involved). On one hand I am not my own cause, I was caused by chance. On the other hand I do give gratitude to the cause of my being i.e. chance.

    Such a feeling is spontaneous but I don't wish to repress it because It acknowledges atheist views but maintains a certain optimism and appreciation for one's life. I never heard anyone tell me this ideology but rather found it out for myself, but the preconceived ideology I believe in is Atheism; I have done nothing more than view cold logic in a more optimistic way.
     
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  4. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Yes, but you are more than a logic machine. Logic is just a tool, but the tool user is quite something else.
     
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  5. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    I certainly agree that humans are more than logic machines. And while logic is a tool, it can serve to explain those who wield it. Humans may not rely on logic alone, but in my eyes logic alone can account for humans. For instance, human emotions can be accounted for through biological processes and tangible scientific observations. Emotions and other aspects of what makes us human are nothing more than evolutionary traits that enhance our survival.
     
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  6. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    I think I understand where you are coming from and can relate. However I'm not trying to make an argument or change anyone else's mind, I'm just proposing my own life philosophy in an attempt to foster some unified contemplation about our existence. I'm trying to facilitate constructive conversation as opposed to just arguing for and against certain views. I believe your thoughts make a lot of sense in general, but for the purpose of this thread it's more about discussing our individual perspectives as opposed to arguing and trying to change each other's minds.
     
  7. While we can observe emotions through a biological process we cannot observe or measure the depth nor the meaing that is contained within these emotions. We are more than a measurable chemical process, but both chemical and spiritual. There is a spiritual heart that we all have within us which we hold the depth of these emotions even despite the reality that this heart we speak of is undetectable by an echocardiogram. How do emotions enhance our survival when they lead many to suicide? How many other animals on the planet off themselves?

    We have emotions because we were made to love, and love has nothing to do with survival and everything to do with sacrifice.
     
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  8. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    The great thing about life is our worldview can change dramatically over time. I respect your worldview as an atheist... it gives me a deeper understanding of that it's like to live in your shoes. Your belief in how the world functions is based on what you've observed in the world, and you've made your judgment based on those views.

    Naturally speaking that's how everyone forms their own worldview. Our worldview becomes what we believe to be true... I for one hold that truth is outside of our scope... I don't trust my senses and don't trust the limits of the human logic. My world view is that there is more than just the mechanical aspects of humanity, I truly believe here is a spiritual aspect as well.

    The dilemma of "emotions" was something that I've been really struggling with in terms of how this equivocates to spirituality. I believe that emotions and energies are 2 different things. when we have an emotion for desire "love", it can be recorded and tested using science, this goes for anger, sadness, happiness, excitement etc... However all emotions don't last, our brain can't keep producing those chemicals and dopamine. This begs the question of why a mother has an attachment to her child for as long as that child may be alive. Or how a bother may become offended if he were to see someone bully his sibling. These energies can provoke emotions within us, but they themselves are not emotions.

    The need for something out there or a deep meaning in life or the need to be moral is also an energy. These things are what separate us from animals, we are not only bodies but spirits as well.
     
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  9. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    Try to find out what to believe on your own based on your own experience and what is going to allow you to find solace in life. If others decide to do the same but come to a different conclusion, you can still have relationships with them and agree to disagree.
     
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  10. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    what do your belief's or lack thereof have anything to do with how you develop relationships with people?
     
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  11. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    I admire a perspective that looks at emotions as more than biological processes but I don't share it. I agree love entails sacrifice but I say love enhanced survival for our ancestors because it promotes social interaction and reproduction which improves the chances of survival and maintains a continuous population. In the case of suicide, I believe it to be an unnatural factor that has arisen due to changes in our environment to which we have not yet adapted, which is likely why it has increased in recent time.
     
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  12. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    If your an apatheist that's your view but I don't think that means you can't have relationships with people who have different views. Even for romantic relationships, you and your partner can have different beliefs and still love each other.
     
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  13. Mankrik

    Mankrik Fapstronaut

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    This is interesting perspective and one that I have never heard before. It is evident that you have shaped your view based on personal experience while taking into account previously established ways of thinking, similar to my thought process.
     
  14. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    I don't think moral principles are dependent on what religion you follow. Maybe the word your looking for is worldview
     
  15. I agree with you 100% that love has helped the survival of our spieces, but I disagree that love was born out of survival. We do not need to love in order to reproduce or to perpetuate the spieces. In fact we could reproduce more if we didn't bother with love at all. As humans we have an intellect and a will, so we are made to know and to act. You cannot love something if you do not know it, so our ability to love isn't simply tied to people but to concepts like truth and justice; and our expression of love is in our actions which, when it comes to love, always requires a sacrifice on our part. A desth to self or a moment of self-givng. For example how many of us would rather die than live in a world where truth and justice are never valued? How many of us would sacrifice our lives to protect those values even if it meant our spieces would cease to exist? How many choose to not have kids because they dont want other human beings to have to live in our society and world?

    It's as if our very nature wasn't meant for survival but rather it was meant for a self-sacrifice in order love something greater than ourselves. IMO, this is contrary trait for a species to have if we are to take survival to be the source of our nature.
     
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  16. Just live life doesn't matter never worry about it God exists or not live @balasubramaniac told me this days ago and I been fine ever since
     
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  17. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    I agree with this. I thrive off having relationships with believers, non-believers, those in between, and those who are neither. I have my beliefs, I hold them dear, and I have obtained them by travelling a long and winding road taking the time to explore the side paths. Even if I think someone's conclusions are in error, I can respect anyone who has come to their destination through a certain integrity in their investigation.

    It's usually easy to tell who's who - those who betray their insecurity by belittling others or those who encourage discussion by conveying respect to all. It's good to see people having a constructive conversation here.
     
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  18. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    I solute you Toast Man!
     
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  19. Runtilmylegsdropoff

    Runtilmylegsdropoff Fapstronaut

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    If only it were that simple. That you die and not meet your maker. That's what a lot of people fear and would never admit publicly. Save the contrarian rants too, I'm not that interested.
     
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  20. SuperFan

    SuperFan Fapstronaut

    Apologies in advance if any of my comments seem argumentative.

    Atheists, generally speaking, often point to science to defend their beliefs. But when it comes to the afterlife, suddenly it's "whatever I happen to like.' I personally recognize that whatever happens after I die, my beliefs have no bearing on it. Reality and truth are rock-solid in the material world--there is no reason to believe that truth bows to our best wishes in the spiritual world, if there even is one.

    These are the kinds of comments I tend to expect from people with an atheistic worldview.
    • we are here by random chance
    • emotions and seemingly transcendent human experiences are nothing more than evolutionary traits
    • there is no greater power or cause for human life
    If those things are true, then life has no transcendent meaning. Of course, you can simply make up whatever meaning you want, but for the atheist, life can have no objective higher purpose. If someone feels suicidal and says, "life has no meaning, so I might as well kill myself", the atheist has no philosophical basis to challenge that comment.

    And yet, you write this ...

    ... sentences that are filled with transcendent meaning and purpose. "Fulfilled"? What does that even mean for an atheist? Is it just a matter of experiencing pleasure? Or is it--gasp--something greater than that?

    I find that atheists tend to be very good at detaching themselves from any sense of meaning when they talk about their life philosophy in a debate, but as soon as they talk about love, goodness, family, charity, wisdom, peace, and morality--they 'sneak' meaning into the discussion while refusing to acknowledge that any real meaning must come from a transcendent source. Otherwise, any meaning is simply a result of the synapses firing in my brain, and thus of no true value whatsoever.
     

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