Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Concerning the quantum mechanics vs. believeing in god:

    Those are two very different things that cannot be compared that easily. You can't apply a logic that just works within spirituality with a logic that just works in the field of science. If you feel like comparing these two, you need to come up with a system that includes both and makes sense of them as existing in one reality. Here's the thing though, if you are spiritual and just say, well if you can't explain it, it's god, thats kind of cheap in my book. The other way around you have something to strive for, truth in science. Back in the day we couldn't explain the sun, or planets, we didn't know the earth was round or how it was created. Now we can have answers to these things that interconnect with each other to form a scientific worldview that can explain lots of things without contradiction, that's damn hard to do, but we did it. Sciencs always proofs to be true and delivers practical solutions to problems of a magnitude that religion doesn't offer. Religion can solve other problems as finding meaning in life, hope or salvation.
     
  2. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

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    Hmmmmm, sir if someone has a opinion then it has to be stable one.
    Lets say God has parents like you say. This means God can't do whatever He wants. Because if God's father or mother doesn't want it then he can't do it. So God is limited here. Also the whole idea of progeny sounds very weak to me. For example Adam got offspring. After some time this offspring got their father's role and replaced Adam. Does the same goes for God? Is he also replaceable? another weakness tho..

    I might get critic's for holding this view but correct me if I am wrong.
    I hold the opinion that God doesn't have any parents. Because God is The Absolute, The Independent and The Most Powerful. He is The First and The Last. No one was before him and No one will be after him. He is not limited to creation or has any limits, defects or flaws. He is The Unique and The one. Humans are nothing like God. Humans will be never like God. Because God is The Independent and Humans are always dependent.

    Now the question "Who created God?"
    The answer is simple. We have The creation and The Creator. The Creator is the one who created the creation. The Creator is not created. This is what makes him God The Creator, The One, The Only One, The Self-Existing One, The Independent.
     
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  3. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    God CAN’T do everything He wants, at least not in our sense of “wanting”. God is perfect, and as such, there’s strict “guidelines”. God loves all His children and He wants His children to have everything He has; I’ve felt the love myself, but He Himself cannot overrule our ability to choose. He can guide us, but He cannot force us all to obey him. Why not? Because our free will is ignored if He did that.

    I grew up in my parents’ house, and as such, I obeyed my parents. It didn’t matter what my grandparents told me what to do, how to do it or how to grow up in my house; it all came down to my parents. My parents, not my grandparents, were the final command. With God, I imagine it’s the same way.

    Matt 5:48, Gal. 4:7 and Rev. 3:21 say otherwise. If we follow Him, we will be heirs. Would Jesus and these wonderful prophets in the New Testament lie to us with these extra hopes of they were, in fact, false?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  4. Lmao. You're welcome.
     
  5. Bible says God sent his son to die for our sins so we are saved by grace not works
     
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  6. We are to be perfect as are heavenly father is but how it we are sinners already
     
  7. RainbowShell

    RainbowShell Fapstronaut

    I will pray for you ;)
     
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  8. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    So before this thread gets locked. . .

    To those who say God exists because _______ and to those who say God doesn't exist because _________

    Parable #3 (A story about 'KNOWING')

    Once upon a time there was a boy and a monk.

    Hey, did you meet _____, the cute little 5 year old boy? He comes here every Sunday with his parents and he's full of mischief; he's always inspecting a new part of this temple. So the monk began asking him some questions, "Hey, where did you come from?"

    After some thought, the boy answered, "I came from home!"

    Quickly he added, "Where did you come from before that?"

    He looked curious enough but threw his hands up and told him, "I don't know."

    Every Sunday he came and every Sunday the monk would ask, "Hey, where did you come from?" And then he would continue to ask him, "Where did you come from before that?"

    He's a smart boy. After many Sundays, the monk got him to continue back to the point where he answered, "I came from mommy's belly."

    So then the monk asked him, "Where were you before you were in mommy's belly?" Ha ha ha . . . this stumped him.

    The first few times, he looked confused, curious . . . as if he was really thinking about it, and he would confess, "I don't know."

    Of course the monk kept at it. . . and the next few Sundays, he could see the boy was trying to avoid him, ha ha ha. When the monk confronted him the last time and asked, "Where were you before you were in your mommy's belly?"

    The boy stared at monk with big enlarged eyes and screamed, "NOOOOOOO!!!!!!" Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!! . . . .

    -The End
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  9. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    That’s how you measure the RESULT of the dream and drive, not the dream and drive itself. It’s like with God. The effects can, for the most part, be measured, yet not God Himself.


    The belief of God is a faith-based belief, and thus also cannot be measured. But God cannot be disproven either.


    Yet again, you keep thinking faith is blind, rather than a third eye open. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and it’s the evidence of things not seen (Heb. 11:1). Think of it like a courtroom, where rah side lays down their own evidence. The judge, or the jury, then decide on the verdict, yet none of them were there to witness the crime itself. That is how true faith is like. It’s not some blond, sheep-like state.
     
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  10. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    Son you just earned yourself a new follower.
     
  11. A new day

    A new day Fapstronaut

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    I believe in the Lord because my heart yearned for Him. My spirit was empty and broken until I met Him. From that day on nothing was the same. It was like the shutters flew open and darkness fled. From then on He’s led from healing to healing, from strength to strength. Even now sometimes I want to believe that our existence is meaningless but I cannot unbelieve even when I try. He’s in my heart and will never leave even if I ask Him too.

    I see Him in the everyday order of things. In the way life tries to live even when it would be easier not to. I see Him in the uniqueness of humans among all living things. In our free will. In our ability to discern and choose between good and evil. In our desire to do right when wrong would be more beneficial. In so many things I could never list.
     
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  12. tweeby

    tweeby Banned

    P.S To all those reading, pay little attention to the conclusions regarding topic at hand being discussed, pay closer attention to the reasons WHYS said individuals may feel so strongly about it.

    When you examine the 'WHYs' all becomes clear, however, we'll leave that for the reader to interpret.

    Toyota was the pioneer for this type of problem solving: When faced with a problem. They do not ask "why" once. They CONTINUE to ask the why's" until there are no more why's to ask. Usually, this leads to a simple solution rather than a multi-faceted mess, which judging by some of the things I read by the people on this forum. . . oh boy . . . a multi-faceted mess, would be a compliment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  13. A new day

    A new day Fapstronaut

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    Yes. Man is a 3 part being. Body, soul, and spirit. The spirit is the “organ” that detects God. Until one opens to the Lord the spirit within doesn’t get activated. Faith comes upon hearing. When one hears of the Lord with the physical ear and decides with their physiological being, the soul, to open their spirit, the Lord indwells one’s spirit with His Spirit. This one is regenerated in the spirit and can now live not as only and fleshly and soul is being but a spiritual one. This is the initial salvation. The process of contacting the Lord from then on causes the mind to be renewed until the person is one mind with the Lord.
     
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  14. (That’s how you measure the RESULT of the dream and drive, not the dream and drive itself. It’s like with God. The effects can, for the most part, be measured, yet not God Himself.)

    God has no effect nor cause, there is no detectable way to notice a god, nor there is any known method to use to prove it.




    (The belief of God is a faith-based belief, and thus also cannot be measured. But God cannot be disproven either.)

    Nor can Jedis in another galaxy far far away be disproven.

    You can't really disprove a negative, I can't prove to you that there aren't invisible smurfs all around us, all I can say is that due to the lack of proof that there are we can assume there aren't any invisible smurfs.




    (Yet again, you keep thinking faith is blind, rather than a third eye open. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and it’s the evidence of things not seen (Heb. 11:1). Think of it like a courtroom, where rah side lays down their own evidence. The judge, or the jury, then decide on the verdict, yet none of them were there to witness the crime itself. That is how true faith is like. It’s not some blond, sheep-like state.)

    In the justice system we gather evidence to prove the origin of the crime, and all subjects are innocent before proven guilty.

    Your god has not been proven, so he is still considered fiction, until proven otherwise.
     
  15. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    The desire for proof is silly and juvenile. Can I 'prove' the world exists outside me? It could all be a dream. Can I 'prove' that I exist? My thoughts might just be the purely random secretions of the brain. Any sane person exercises their belief everyday. And belief will beget belief... and life becomes abundant. But hey if you want to remain miserable and ignorant in the squalid cave of your little cogito for life... that's your choice, and your 'right'.
     
  16. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

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    @MLMVSS
    I completely disagree with you on this matter. I believe I have been clear in my arguments just like you. It was never to convince you nor will you ever convince me. It was just to inform you.
    However we will most definitely see the truth and I hope for us that we will recognize it and embrace it before it's too late. Peace

    @latinboypr
    I somehow have the idea that you more focused on the discussion instead of getting some benefit from the answers. You strike every answer with another question like it's a game to win. You do this without pondering over the answers.

    If you truly are interested in why people believe then investigate and search. Most important put yourselves in the shoe's of believers. Go vist religious places and see and talk to the people. If you truly care about humanity you will do this. What is it that cause so many people to believe in the unseen? If you are pure at heart and have pure and good intentions you most definitely will find some sort of peace with it at the end.

    If discussions are for Listening, understanding and communicating then you gain benefit from it otherwise it's time wasting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  17. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Let’s say reason is undecided. This would leave desire to decide. We’d then ask ourselves why we’d want to believe on the one hand, and why we’d want not to believe on the other.

    Here are the reasons for belief;
    • A bolstering of the instinct for beauty
    • A basis for the ethical instinct for right and wrong
    • A direction and destination in an otherwise chaotic world
    • A basis for meaning is an otherwise meaningless world
    • A basis for reason in an otherwise irrational world
    • A basis for morality and community in an otherwise anarchic world
    Here are the reasons for disbelief:
    • Freedom to think as I please
    • ……..
    • Maybe others can add some here.
     
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  18. A reason not to believe is that there are multiple religions. I'm only familiar enough with Christianity, but most denominations of Christianity give salvation only to believers of their denomination. So you have to be very accurate/lucky with your choice of faith. If Pascal's wager suggested to me simply that Theism alone would get me to heaven in the event that a God or Gods exist, then it would be a no-brainer.

    A huge issue I have with religion is that the vast majority of religious people never research any other religion than that of their parents. This is completely natural - but more fitting of a culture than a belief system. What If you got the wrong one? Is accident of you and your parents, etc birth enough to justify your belief? I mean, fair enough. I don't tend to enjoy arguing issues of faith, but that would bother me if I believed.
     
  19. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I'm fairly certain the Christian Bible is the only religious text in the world that has nearly 40 different authors and was written over the span of approximately 1,500 years, with prophecies from hundreds of years prior being corroborated hundreds of years later, by a different author who never even knew or met or spoke to the first author. That reason, alone, sets Christianity apart vastly from all other religions. I would have an incredibly hard time accepting that some religion created by one dude who decided he knew the secrets to life, corroborated by nobody, is actually factual and true.
     
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  20. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    And as far as salvation only being given to members of your denomination... I'm not sure where you've heard that, but I certainly have not ever heard that in my 24 years of being a Christian. Salvation is given to anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their savior. I have friends who are Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic, non-denominational, etc., who I would definitely consider to be "saved." If I were to say a certain Catholic person isn't "saved," for example, it wouldn't merely be because they're Catholic. It would be only if they don't recognize Jesus as God and haven't accepted him as their Savior.

    That does, however, exclude Jews and Muslims, who are seen from most perspectives to be people who follow the same Bible as Christians. But the important distinction is that they reject the divinity of Jesus, which is crucial to his death on the cross having any meaning at all. Otherwise our "penalty" of sin hasn't been paid, and we would be in the same boat as those in the Old Testament, before Christ.
     
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