Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    What's your point? You're kind of derailing this thread and taking it in a direction that will probably get this conversation locked by mods. I really don't want to see that happen.
     
  2. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    Allah = God God = Jesus. Complicated?
     
  3. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    You've still given no actual reasons why you believe this. You just keep saying the same thing, which is essentially, "I'm right, whether you like it or not." That doesn't explain your reasoning at all.
     
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  4. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    They are welcome to do whatever they find appropriate, wether if it is in fact correct or not
     
  5. RainbowShell

    RainbowShell Fapstronaut

    Maybe the thread has run its course, we all know what we believe to be true so no arguments will change this at this point in time.
     
  6. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    I didn't disagree with you, you disagreed with me, and I disagree with your disagreement. I, unlike you backed up my claims with plausible and truthful arguments.
     
  7. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Yes, it is more complicated than that, because Allah does not = the God of the Bible. But again, this conversation is completely irrelevant to this thread. If you want to debate Islam or something, make another thread. It'll probably be taken down, but you can give it a shot.
     
  8. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I completely disagree. I was having some great conversations here and still am. AverageBear just asked me a valid question, with a heart of actually being curious and wanting to learn about someone else's beliefs.

    If you don't want to participate, nobody is forcing you. But don't speak for everybody in deciding this thread is dead.
     
  9. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    Ok, I'm don't have plenty of knowledge about islam, you're right. But I think, they believe in God, and they call him Allah. You're right, I shouldn't be talking about something I don't have knowledge on.
     
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  10. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    Cassie are you Christian?
     
  11. RainbowShell

    RainbowShell Fapstronaut

    Oh calm down, just got a feeling. Not sure how im speaking for everyone though.
     
  12. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Yes, I am.

    I wasn't freaking out. Sorry if it sounded that way. There's just been a bit of a trend here, I feel, with people shutting down conversations the minute anyone says something moderately rude, and it's annoyed me in the past when I've been having good conversations with people, only to have the thread locked because one person felt it was unproductive and reported everything instead of just not reading it if they didn't want to read it. Not that that's what you're doing, I just could see that happening with this thread, since religion is a touchy subject. And I'm trying to deter that from happening.
     
  13. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    Jesus is not Allah. Ask any Christian OR any Muslim that, and both will tell you that.

    Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, but not one as central as Muhammad. Go to Saudi Arabia or Iran and say Jesus is Allah, and see what happens to you (hint: it won’t be pleasant).
     
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  14. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    "In Islam, shirk (Arabic: شرك‎‎ širk) is the sin of practicing idolatry or polytheism, i.e. the deification or worship of anyone or anything besides the singular God, i.e. Allah. Literally, it means ascribing or the establishment of "partners" placed beside God."

    I think that pretty much sums that up. I'm pretty sure think is considered the worst sin a person can commit, according to Islam.
     
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  15. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I had a very close Muslim friend for a while, and this is pretty much the biggest divide in our beliefs.
     
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  16. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    If the Allah they believe in is God from the Bible, then Jesus is Allah, because Jesus is God. If they preach another God, then not. Jesus = God And I'm not sure if Biblical God = Allah, but if it is the case, then Jesus is Allah, wether they believe it or not.
     
  17. RainbowShell

    RainbowShell Fapstronaut

    I could change the title and my question in the thread, not sure how its not deleted yet cause its been off topic for 18 pages, but that would give it a better chance of surviving.
     
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  18. truthseeker17

    truthseeker17 Fapstronaut

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    Of all the world's great men, none has been so much maligned as Muhammad(peace be upon him). Despite him(peace be upon him) being the ultimate mercy to mankind. As far as it's concerned to Aisha whom you mean by the "9 year old kid", it is one of the interesting stories in Islam for non-muslim to discuss. However you have to understand the context and the full meaning behind it.

    In seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad(peace be upon him) made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.
    According to this perspective, Aisha may have been young, but she was not younger than was the norm at the time.What's more, Aisha had already been engaged to someone else before she married Muhammad(peace be upon him), suggesting she had already been mature enough by the standards of her society to consider marriage for a while.

    The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's(peace be upon him) marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad(peace be upon him) as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."

    Since the early Christians heralded Christ as a model of celibate virtue, Muhammad(peace be upon him) – who had married several times – was deemed to be driven by sinful lust. This portrayal ignored the fact that before his marriage to Aisha, Muhammad(peace be upon him) had been married to Khadija, a powerful businesswoman 15 years his senior, for 25 years. When she died, he(peace be upon him) was devastated and friends encouraged him to remarry. A female acquaintance suggested Aisha, a bright and vivacious character.

    Aisha's union would also have cemented Muhammad's(peace be upon him) longstanding friendship with her father, Abu Bakr. As was the tradition in Arabia (and still is in some parts of the world today), marriage typically served a social and political function – a way of uniting tribes, resolving feuds, caring for widows and orphans, and generally strengthening bonds in a highly unstable and changing political environment. Of the women Muhammad(peace be upon him) married, the majority were widows. To consider the marriages of the prophet(peace be upon him) outside of these calculations is profoundly ahistorical.

    What the records are clear on is that Muhammad(peace be upon him) and Aisha had a loving and egalitarian relationship, which set the standard for reciprocity, tenderness and respect enjoined by the Qur'an. Insights into their relationship, such as the fact they liked to drink out of the same cup or race one another, are indicative of a deep connection which belies any misrepresentation of their relationship.

    To paint Aisha as a victim is completely at odds with her persona. She was certainly no wallflower. During a controversial battle in Muslim history, she emerged riding a camel to lead the troops. She was known for her assertive temperament and mischievous sense of humour – with Muhammad(peace be upon him)sometimes bearing the brunt of the jokes. During his lifetime, he established her authority by telling Muslims to consult her in his absence; after his(peace be upon him) death, she went to be become one of the most prolific and distinguished scholars of her time.

    A stateswoman, scholar, mufti, and judge, Aisha combined spirituality, activism and knowledge and remains a role model for many Muslim women today. The gulf between her true legacy and her depiction in Islamophobic materials is not merely historically inaccurate, it is an insult to the memory of a pioneering woman.

    Those who manipulate her story to justify the abuse of young girls, and those who manipulate it in order to depict Islam as a religion that legitimises such abuse have more in common than they think. Both demonstrate a disregard for what we know about the times in which Muhammad(peace be upon him) lived, and for the affirmation of female autonomy which her story illustrates.

    reference
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth
     
  19. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I forgot you were the OP, and now my comment to you sounds extra mean. Sorry about that!! I really didn't mean to be rude.
     
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  20. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    YHWH led the Israelites out from Egypt through Moses. Israelites were descendants of Isaac, whom Jews believe were the one with the rightful birthmark, rather than Ishmael, whom Muslims believe was. Why would Muslims worship YHWH when He guided the descendants of Isaac and not Ishmael?

    Even so, Christians believe God is triune, whether as a godhead of three beings or as a trinity. That itself will be blasphemy in Islam.
     
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