Atheists, God and the afterlife.

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Because the evidence is
    1. Muh holy book says so.
    2. Wouldn't it be nice if it were true?
    How convenient.

    I think it's unproductive to waste time with this nonsense unless you need to let everyone know how good and moral you are e.g. for a career in politics in some countries. But whatever works for you.
     
  2. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    I think there's something called the minimal facts approach that shows that the best explanation of the facts is Jesus' resurrection:
    1. Jesus died by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate.
    2. Jesus' tomb was empty.
    3. Jesus' disciples believed what they saw was the risen Jesus.
    4. The skeptic and persecutor of Christians, Paul, was converted to Christianity.
    5. The skeptic James was converted to Christianity.
    6. Early Christian belief and proclamation of the resurrection of Christ showing its centrality to Christianity.
    Also the Roman historians Tacitus and Josephus mention refer to Jesus and His crucifixion
    Maybe all it takes is a leap of faith man, idk. Many people say they encountered Jesus through a leap of faith but I'm not saying that I'm better than anyone... I never said I was better than anyone. I'm not trying to show off how much better I am than you by what I stated.
     
  3. If you look at what's happened among the main people of the Third Reich, you'll see there is a big amount of material which gives us info. Just the paper documents weigh literal tons. Meanwhile there is a grand total of two historical writeups touching on events in Jerusalem in Easter of 30 (?) AD in favor of the Christian view. The Gospels and Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, both of them copied and possibly manipulated by many people not to mention the bias or ignorance of the original writers. The Greek historian Herodotus writes about things which are accepted but also about Greek gods and the Trojan war - does it make Zeus and Achilles real?

    To some degree of certainty we can say that a guy called Christus was executed, sparking formation of yet another Jewish sect. Any details regarding the event that you might cite are wild speculations by interested parties. The idea that the laws of nature came to halt at an order of a supernatural entity is not "the best explanation of the facts" because it's not an explanation and we're not dealing with any facts.
     
  4. agreed
     
  5. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    So what would be the best explanation of the facts?
     
  6. Hros

    Hros Fapstronaut

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    Seems it'll take him some time to answer, as he's been temporarily suspended...
     
  7. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Oh I didn't notice that...
     
  8. Please do read again to which you're replying. The claims you posted are not facts.

    In order to entertain you, I'll make a false assumption that people have really witnessed a seemingly dead guy walking again. Well that's a bit unusual, but unexplainable, really? People have survived executions before. Or the witnesses might have been deceived.

    You can think up a lot of explanations but the thing is you don't have to since the evidence that any of these supposed facts to be explained actually happened is so weak. If a random guy on the street tells you he saw a pig fly, will you believe him?

    This conversation we're having is ridiculous.
     
  9. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    I consider myself Agnostic, but if there were a higher power, then I believe in Pantheism. Pantheism is a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God. Albert Einstein believed the same thing. Here is a great YouTube video that explains it very beautifully.



    Basically humankind's goal is, through science, to understand the universe. As previous posters have stated, there are many different religions and all claim to be the truth or the one (as you can see between previous debates from @Castielle and @truthseeker17). They are absolutely certain that their religion is the right one. This idea bothers me because everyone is born into their religion. Einstein has a great quote:
    "Common Sense Is Nothing More Than a Deposit of Prejudices Laid Down in the Mind Before Age Eighteen"
    To me this is the same meaning that you are born into your religion and everything you are taught by your parents will be your common sense. Sometimes we need to question common sense and grow up.

    Another interesting argument:
    Or, we evolved to believe in a higher power as a mechanism to keep our groups/civilizations cohesive in order to survive. That's not really necessary anymore.

    Anyways, as others have stated, this will be an endless debate without changing anyone's minds, but they are fun nonetheless ;)
     
  10. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Do you believe that it's possible for supernatural occurrences to occur? And the things I posted were facts since most historians agree upon them... now I know you might jump up and say that's the appeal to majority fallacy but those historians have spent years studying Christianity and agree upon those things as facts.
     
  11. No
    They don't
     
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  12. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    You can't even consider it a possibility? Why?
    Yes they do, even skeptical historians accept those events as facts. How do you know they don't?
     
  13. Because deciding that something is supernatural means giving up on your brain. Saying "God did it" is a capitulation. It gets you nowhere. It solves nothing.
    How could they know? The only "evidence" that Jesus' tomb was empty or even that he had one are the Gospels. But I believe we've been through this already...
     
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  14. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    So if a God exists and is all-powerful, wouldn't He be able to do supernatural things?
    What if the Gospels can be shown to be reliable?
     
  15. StopHurtingMe

    StopHurtingMe Fapstronaut

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    I believe that if you want to know a God, He will reveal Himself to you. And if you are happy with your self sufficiency, He won’t disturb you. Having lived on both sides of not knowing Him and knowing Him, I am very glad that I took a gamble that He might exist and decided to open my heart to Him. If you pray, asking Him to give you answers and reveal Himself to you, and you do this with humility and not from a place of arrogance and indignation, you will not be disappointed.
     
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  16. Clever Girl.
     
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  17. Pity

    Pity Fapstronaut

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  18. Pity

    Pity Fapstronaut

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    theT
    The freedom...yes. Well people don't get religion. It is the same freedom we use to choose our beliefs or religion.... bit we overlooked the liberty. Well we are sinners.
     
  19. Pity

    Pity Fapstronaut

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    Right!
     

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