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A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion
Lol, I'm not trying to start a fight... Let me see if I can untangle and rerelate
Lol no prob. I think I get what you're saying, I just don't think I agree with it.
What does that mean what kind of experience is that
I agree with this.
If one guy wrot this part and a bunch of other people wrote a bunch of other things in another book... Now there is a museum that says that they are all one book...?
I was totally agreeing with you in the way you were saying it was everyone has a reason for whether or not they do or not believe or don't believe in their religion... That's why it's such a hot topic.
I also think that is why over the years it's spun so many ways.
I agree about logic and emotions and even just plain old feelings and what makes sense to each individuals why.
Personally, religion has to fit each person.
I agree with you on this.
Even not being religious has been turned into a religion... Lol, they named Atheism as a religion! (I think that's funny)
People who have consumed ayahuasca report having spiritual revelations regarding their purpose on earth, the true nature of the universe as well as deep insight into how to be the best person they possibly can.This is viewed by many as a spiritual awakening and what is often described as a rebirth.In addition, it is often reported that individuals feel they gain access to higher spiritual dimensions and make contact with various spiritual or extra-dimensional beings who can act as guides or healers.
I believe God exists for alot of reasons, but the one that stands out for me the most at times is, if he didn't, what's the point? What are we trying to achieve in this life, if once we die we wink out of existence, we are nothing?
Before things devolved, I remember the point of this, and I think this post is foundational. Classical education wise. Why do religions exist? It is only one of these things?
1) because there is a God
2) because people need God
Or, can there be other factors as well, but not exclusive of there being a God. It is hard to understand why bad things happen, why manipulations are allowed to exist, why life is so short, sometimes so rewarding and beautiful, and then we die. What is the meaning of it all? Is there only meaning in finding God? Would there be meaning without God? (Maybe temporarily, until we die?)
I, for one, do fear the everlasting fires of hell. I do believe it is a real place, and would not kid around about being shackled by the devil. But, that's just my beliefs. I completely respect others to follow their own convictions. I encourage everyone to follow the dictates of their own conscience.
I don't think it has to be a bad subject or involve tiresome details. We can grow in respect as we acknowledge the faith of others, or understand better their perspectives on scientific observations, or their personal anecdotal experiences...
If the Christian God was real, I wouldn't worship him. He seems like a bully to me. Bow before me or you'll burn, but I still love you. Makes no sense to me. I too believe in some kind of diety, just not a Christian one.
You have an interesting understanding. And, not an uncommon misunderstanding.
The tenets of my religion are actually quite a world different than what you describe. In fact, I'd say the Greeks and Egyptians and pagans all describe petulant ideations. However, the Living God of Christianity wherein the Son was crucificed for all mankind as an act of love. We are only judged by that light which we receive. Be hopeful. When that same God that created us shall judge us in the end, we shall all see and know.
Yes, and practical reason [both at the psychological and cultural levels] was a lot more important than theoretical reason. Notice how the subject tends to be discussed at the individual, or ideological, level today. The eclipse of practical reason by theoretical reason signifies the eclipse of orthodoxy by heresy. All apologetics, based on the Protestant principle, are inherently heretical for they assume the individual is at the center determining their own beliefs. It is quite a naïve view of human nature, not only by the lights of the pre-modern world by the lights of the increasingly 'post-modern' lights of the linguistic, cultural, and psychological turns.
It's interesting how the first successes of heresy established state churches. But, the Protestant principle being what it is [the right to interpret everything yourself] naturally leads to further splintering. The logic is finally working itself out today, where even secular science and reason is being dismissed before the right of the individual to believe what they want. So we end up with a cultural anarchy that can only be counter-balanced by an increasingly dominating technology.
Given the fact of suffering, it's equally arguable the other way. Historically, it was in the face of suffering that people sought consolation in religion. It is only when individuals arrogate to themselves the idea that they might be the measure of all things that they set up their own tribunal to interrogate the nature of the cosmos, and the nature of the Divinity, and choose to dismiss all incoherencies they have imagined in their own mind. It's to imagine ourselves with a God's eye view, when in reality we are, along with the thoughts in our skulls, little more than dust in the greater scheme of things. In rejecting a Supreme Being, we become delusional.
Orthodox Christianity makes no sense without some kind of recognition of the holocaust here and now, and one to come. To take a sober view, to put aside all delusions, every person on the planet is sliding inexorably toward death. That's the reality. And then there is the awful fact and faith of the Cross, which in some mysterious way is supposed to turn all of this on its head. It is not reason contra non-reason, but hopelessness contra hope.
Thank you for all your postings. These are great. I will defracture the response because I love the asides and following branched logic, but defer to a linear form in these forum threads.
A bit of doctrine from my beliefs: what you say is correct, and it is why a restoration was necessary. My beliefs accept that a great apostasy happened in the original Church, and that a curse of darkness was upon history for a time. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not a protestant religion at all, but lays claim to the Priesthood restored and reorganized. No other religion makes these bold claims since Peter after Jesus himself was gone, since prophets and patriarchs of ancient time such as Moses, Abraham, Noah. The "Jews" as so many call them have lost their Levite priests. Catholicism appears inconsistent with versions of orthodoxy and inadherence but at least this is a claim they profess, to divine authority.
This is an important distinction, and I make it because this is where we agree.. to "protest" and splinter off does create a problem, even initially. And, now, the fruit of the harvest is wild and chaotic. However, protestants do have valid points of protest that were answered in the Restoration, and they were inspired and paved the way for the USA to be created, which became the vehicle for establishing freedoms of religion throughout the world; a work in progress. Aside: to retranslate the Bible over and over again into the hundreds of times is nonproductive at best. The enemy of all religion has veritably accomplished every goal in the redefinition of so many things. You will note that if quoting scripture, I always go to the KJV; not due to a misperception of infallibility in layers of translation, but due to respect and commonality and our need to be unified.
Beyond the other digressions, what I really like is your hope. Oddly expressed as without the "cross" there would be no hope. "If a man die, will he live again?" Reaffirming this as a Yes is a huge leap of faith. But, what reason are we here.. to die? No, but to live. And, if we can resist evil in this life, we will have an eternal reward, better if we are valiant in defense of truth and evangelism.
I don't know man. I respect everyones beliefs, but it just doesn't sit right with me. We're sinners apparently, so in order to fix that, God sends his only son to die and suffer. That somehow corrects the problem? It doesn't makes sense. The religion as a whole just doesn't make sense, at least to me. I was raised a Christian and my whole fucking life, I was just scared of burning in hell. One day I just started questioning things, and realized that Christianity just wasn't for me. You should check out the Kybalion. It's more of a philosophy than a religion, but it really made sense to me. It talks about "God" being unknowable, because it's above knowing. I think it's above gender too, if it even exists at all. I believe it does, but I keep an open mind. Maybe it's some kind of energy. All I know is life is too goddamn strange for there not to be something out there.
Nobody owns him/herself.
Most people do think they do but that's an illusion.
Look at the amount of porn addicts only.
It's all about enslavement, that points us to the fact that "somebody" or "something" is trying to own us. By seducing, manipulation and domination.
Only a master will try to get as many slaves as possible right? And slaves cannot free other slaves. Only a free man can help to free others.
By the way, that master must be a slave himself. No other possibility imho.
Raise the question: oke, but who is owning a free man? Can he own himself? Of course he can't. Because a free man knows that freedom is in love, in serving others, in raising others above him. And love is never in itself, it needs the other in relationship.
So that means that a free man must have found something or somebody he could give himself to. Somebody that gave him his freedom. Somebody he can let him own, in love and freedom.
@Roady is attributing to the implied point from @Buzz Lightyear that I saw. How can we reason ourselves into or out of existence? Well, we can't. So, reason is not enough to explain existence! "...shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" Madness, indeed.
@Vinum Sabbathi Having questions is ALWAYS a part of faith. Otherwise, all questions answered with observable evidence, you would have certain knowledge. Yet, there is evidence to evoke faith in every man. Continue your questions and your faith. Thank you for respecting beliefs There is a higher being. There was a perfect plan. Why is salvation a vicarious work is a question I cannot answer easily except to say that through my faith in Christ, I have received personal witness in undeniable feelings of the presence and reality of God. For which I am grateful. For all those that receive differing inspiration, it is equally honorable for them to follow their understanding as it is for me to live out mine.
Punishments is an interesting doctrine. I think more on the rewards being lesser and greater than in punishment. But, that's also because in my understanding the real hell is in our own guilt and what we owe others for the harm we've caused. There isn't a binary decision at judgement in my faith, but assignment into kingdoms of glory. All men are resurrected, but not all receive the same reward. The parable of the talents is one of my favorite. We get to choose our reward, by our own actions!
As someone who's spent time on both sides of the coin I would like to give my thoughts. Oddly enough I actually asked myself the question you proposed and I came to the conclusion that I had nothing to lose by being open to the possibility of a God(s). It was a pretty odd thing to admit at the time because I thought I was helping myself by my disbelief when in reality is was bettering my odds by being open to a God(s) being a possibility. I figured if there is a God(s) then this God(s) would be a lover of truth and would never deny someone who lived their life in a genuine pursuit of truth. I also knew that I could never call myself a genuine pursuer of truth if I limited any means of me discovering it, even if that means was revelation. It was on that day that I decided to meet whatever was on the other side of death as an explorer.
Life is the journey/exploration. Death is the destination.
These kind of statements are strange to me. I mean, I get why someone might hate God or not want to worship him. But I don't understand why someone would say they don't believe in someone just because they don't like them. That just doesn't make much sense. I mean there are plenty of humans on this earth who are terrible people that I want nothing to do with, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. To me, there has to be more to not believing in the Christian God than just that you don't like Him. At least if you're going to call your beliefs logical. If you acknowledge that they're purely emotional, then that's a fine reason I suppose, but it's not enough of a reason if we're speaking about logic.
Believing in the existence of God (meaning the Christian God) doesn't make you a Christian or mean that you want to follow Him or that you like Him. The Bible says that even the demons believe in God and His power, and shudder in fear. But clearly the demons aren't on His side.