Battle of the sexes childcare edition. Who stays home?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by GG2002, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I was reading an article recently that confirmed what I think most women know they do more of the child rearing than men do as well as more of the housework. This is true even if the woman far outearns the man so she’s a surgeon and he’s a teacher, and even when the woman works a lot longer hours. I’ve seen this so many times as a lawyer where a married couple are both lawyers yet when the child is sick she stays home not him, she goes part time or leaves the workforce all together. Often no doubt she does this by choice and is more than happy to, but what about when she’s not? What about when it simply does not make financial sense and she does not want to stay at home?

    And the study also confirmed what I thought that if asked the majority of men say they want a relationship where child care is totally equal as well as housework and they want a working woman but when push comes to shove they actually don’t step up to the plate. Is it because they harbor gender ideas so deeply buried that they don’t even know they do? Or is that just something they say because they don’t think they can tell the truth.

    I think most men want children and want women with jobs that are educated so long as her job is secondary and they expect that if either career suffers due to child care it’s certainly not going to be theirs. IMO the reason for the gender pay gap is more about men not stepping up and supporting her career as she supports his or caring for the kids more so she can devote more time to her job. Many women who want to work often leave the workforce simply because she can’t do it all. But if her partner stepped up just a little bit more she could.

    I have never really wanted children and neither do most of my friends. Some people say that’s selfish I say actually it would be selfish to have a child I did not really want. I have however in past relationships agreed that if we married I would consider it. But that idea almost always broke down when it became clear that I was expected to go part tIME, work less hours or stay at home even though I made it quite clear from day One I had no intention of doing that. In One such relationship my partner was considering a new job that would have him travel two weeks out of the month. He also was adamant about wanting a child. I had told him early on that if he wanted that he would need to be the primary caretaker and he said that was fine that he would even stay home. I made a lot more money. So I asked him being that I don’t get home until around 8:00 at night who exactly is going to care for the child while you travel? And there it came well I just assumed you would cut back on your hours when you had a kid. My response but I specifically told you I would not? What about you do you intend on cutting back hours? Well no I can’t it will hurt my career. And mine? No response. And that’s when I ended things.

    Please make no mistake if either person wants to stay home and the family can afford it they absolutely should do that. But it seems despite how far we may have come many women are still being forced into the role or stay at home parent by their spouses.

    So ladies and men have you experienced this? Men would you be willing to be a stay at home parent or reduce your hours to allow your partner to continue her career and why or why not? Oh and if anyone that responds does not mind could you mention your age. I do think men under a certain age are more open to staying at home but I would like to see if I’m right.
     
  2. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    Well, let me say that at least one parent should be available for the kids. WHO it should be, however, should be discussed in the marriage if kids are going to happen. Does this mean one of them cannot work? Not at all. Does it mean that only one parent should do it either? Most definitely not. Just as long as one of them is there, in my opinion. It's tough to say an answer due to each marriage being different.

    I say this because parenthood is the most wholesome job someone can have; it's a job embedded into us biologically. Look at nature; many animal species have gender roles, while some don't. Of the some that don't, many of them actually develop gender roles specifically to raise the young, whether it's male or female. And of the ones that do have gender roles, they become more heightened when they have progeny. While many gender roles in humans originate from society, women tend to have more emotional attachments to others, including kids, while men tend to feel more reward if they're providing. Both tendencies can cooperate well with working or staying at home.

    All in all, it should be something talked about in every marriage, but if kids happen, it's a blessing to have a parent home. My mum stayed home; it was great knowing I could always turn to her if I had any immediate need.
     
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  3. I did t read your whole post, but I have something to say about this. I think it's also a possibility that when men say they want equal share in child care and housework, it ends up being unbalanced because men and women have different ideas of how much needs to be done in regards to child care and housework. Like for example, with my husband, he would have no issue with doing housework, but he also doesn't see the need to do as much as I do. Like if I asked him to clean the bathroom, he would do it, and I would probably go in and clean it again because he didn't clean as much as I would have wanted. So maybe when a guy says he wants to do equal amounts of housework, he's thinking housework takes 20 minutes and his wife is thinking housework takes two hours. So if he does ten minutes of house work, he might feel like he's done his half.

    I feel like everything I just said makes no sense now that I try to articulate it aloud. Lol but hopefully it's at least somewhat readable.
     
  4. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I actually have read that men will do more housework if women are not there to do it. So I think you are onto something. Some men may also attempt to do it, but then get criticized and stop, not by me lol because I am not typically concerned with a high degree of cleanliness but I can see this occurring.
     
  5. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I totally agree that having one parent at home is best and is a total blessing to be able to do. But I also think that if one person does stay home it just makes financial sense for the one with the higher income to stay working. And I don’t mean a few thousand more a year, but significantly higher. But men often won’t stay home, but instead expect that a woman will. I guess for me it’s more about the expectations that men have that a woman will leave the workforce to raise their kids. I never have that expectation of a man?
     
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  6. Poseidon

    Poseidon Fapstronaut

    In a perfect world, both parents work and a grandparent watches the kids during the day.
     
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  7. TheLoneDanger

    TheLoneDanger Fapstronaut

    I guess I would be an outlier in this study, because my wife and I have always tried to split housework and child duties 50/50. I never thought of it as anything more than common sense. We both have jobs that can keep us away sometimes, so one picks up the slack for the other. I don’t know, I’d just feel like a jerk if I assumed I didn’t have to do these things. Now the only exception to this is if there’s a handyman project or some heavy lifting, which I don’t mind handling those tasks by myself. Then there are some things my wife does better and likes to handle those things. Maybe that’s why we’ve been married for almost 20 years without any big problems. Marriage is such a team effort and would be quite counterproductive if we spent time worrying about “is that a man’s or a woman’s job”.

    I’ve seen couples (friends and acquaintances) that handle housework and/or kid duties in many different ways. I’ve seen situations which would fall into the majority in the study. But I’ve also seen situations where the guy does most of the housework. So to me it’s kind of sad when I see that kind of study suggest that most men are giving us all a bad name.
     
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  8. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Love this! That’s how I was raised and it was great. Sadly people move so far from family these days!
     
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  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    That’s awesome that your relationship is so equal and I agree if one partner excels at something or wants to do it let them! It’s just when people are forced into roles they don’t want due to gender.
     
  10. NinaGood

    NinaGood Fapstronaut

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    absolutely agree with you!
     
  11. As a man I have a very, very high standard for cleanliness and I am very meticulous with how I clean! I would also love to be a stay at home Dad, so make of that what you will :)
     
  12. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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    I am 39, married 15 years, and a mother to 5 children. I worked professionally before my children were born, and went back to work twice after the first two were weaned. I have not been in paid employment the last ten years, although I am nearly finished a B Nursing that I have done part time while home with the kids.

    Honestly, your post has raised a strong response in me. What kind of selfishness is it to think only of one’s own career? This goes for both male AND female. The kids are little for only a short time, who is thinking of THEM? If you have kids, as a woman, my view is that you should be prepared to make some sacrifice to your career, because young children need strong attachment to their mothers. This is an investment in their development and emotional health you do not get a second chance at. I will work again, there is plenty of time in life for that.

    The key is that women need an enormous amount of trust in their man to step back from their work. To be vulnerable to his provision. This is never a sure thing, of course, but most men take pride in working for their loved ones, and are keen to do it.

    Family means teamwork and sacrifice by the parents, each in different ways. Children are not accessories to be passed off between them.
     
  13. Saskia Simone

    Saskia Simone Fapstronaut

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  14. AChosenPeople

    AChosenPeople Fapstronaut

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    Generalization is rubbish.
     
  15. Minsc

    Minsc Fapstronaut

    I'm increasingly starting to think there is too much selfishness among parents in general, and we are being taught to be this way. Perhaps it is simply due to us wanting to remain as children into adulthood.
     
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  16. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    This is why I do not have children because I do not think it would be fair to have kids, if both parents were not willing to put the kids not their career first. I am often called selfish for not wanting kids, but I don’t see it that way. I see so many people that have kids, because I often think society pressures them to, but they have zero time for the kids, and the kids are truly suffering. But what I am increasing finding is cases where the man wants children and the woman is ambivalent to it. Meaning she would do it if he wants to, but if she never has kids thats also fine with her. The issue that arises though is that the men expect the woman to be the primary care taker, ever though they are the ones that want the children. I don’t get that. It is ideal to have one parent at home, but the issue again I have is that it is assumed that will be the woman, and I do not think that is fair. One person needs to support the family, why should it be the person who makes less? The increasing desire for women not wanting kids, IMO is this exact reason. Clearly one person needs to be the primary caretaker of the children. WOmen who have worked for years to build their careers know they either can’t or don’t want to give that up. Men want children, but also refuse to give up their careers, so women don’t have kids. If men would step up and say hey I will parent and really do that, then I think more career women would have kids, but most men won’t.
     
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  17. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I agree with you. I think many people have kids with no idea how much responsibility they are. I also think though society views people that do not want children as if there is something wrong with them, and this is taken out more on women than it is on men. It is almost like you are not a complete person until you have kids. So people have kids, not because it is a desire of theirs, but because they just think it’s what they are supposed to do. Then they really struggle to raise them. I have seen some people that were not very motherly or fatherly turn into amazing parents once the kids arrived, but many others just don’t. They feel guilty, alone and ashamed, for not loving life with kids like they think they are supposed to. When I go to the stores, like target I can see the unwanted kids. The kids trying so hard to get Mom or Dad’s attention, while Mom or Dad plays on facebook or talks on the phone. The kids are crying out for attention. It makes me feel so bad for them.
     

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