Begging likes

Discussion in 'NoFap Technical Support and Feedback' started by Deleted Account, May 25, 2019.

  1. hello,

    I would like us to reconsider the concept of the 'like' button. We all know the 'like' button in the social media world is contributing to social anxiety and that anxiety is a fuel for addiction, so why would we employ it here?

    I use it and even as a newbie to Nofap I am already monitoring how many likes I am receiving and personally to me I have in my head a comment-to-like ratio that for me defines success and status. The flip side to it is that it's an obsessive thought and also rather like the finger pointing at the moon, becomes the main focus of attention.

    We as a recovery community have a vested interest in the proper and healthy use of all tools and resources at our disposal, for ourselves, our addictive/compulsive behaviour.

    I propose we do one of two things or maybe even both:

    1) we as a community define acceptable, healthy, informal rules/standards/guidelines for the like button; call to awareness the pitfalls of misuse and how simple and insidious it's potential.

    2) we conceive of another system that is an improvement on the like button.
    Shin Iu, PMS, Deleted Account and 4 others like this.
  2. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Even the social media companies themselves have started to experiment with modifying this feature - not that they thought of it. When Irresistible was published there was already an app that masks the number of likes from Facebook. So what it looks like is instead of "32 Likes" it just says something like "People Like this." Of course here it names specific people that like the post, which I think is a healthier version.

    In general I think the engagement of online platforms should be recognized as a replacement addiction, and to an extent even entire recovery fellowships are just that, in practice - people could very well be addicted to going to meetings and fellowship there instead of whatever the addiction is. A part of how it works IS this fight fire with fire methodology, because it uses the momentum of the addictive impulse to curb said addiction.

    I kind of look at this issue on two levels. The way it works has to be pretty close to how other platforms work in the beginning to get people to engage because people are only going to use what is familiar and "intuitive." Going forward however, and even in keeping with the gamification concept what can happen is the way it is done becomes more complex, the game changes up based on the "level" one goes to. As it is I think the day counter thing as a single point system is reductionistic, it would not be inconceivable to make it a matter of doing something different rather than just an ever increase in quantity whether that's days abstaining or number of posts etc.

    Just off the top of my head a qualitatively different variable like "Helpful" instead of Likes could be.. well, helpful in this regard. Which is of course also not new, it exists on Yelp.
    Deleted Account likes this.
  3. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Oh one forum I know has the "Gratitude." There could also be one that says something like "Can relate!" Another: "Interesting"
    recon117 and Deleted Account like this.
  4. Yes exactly and we can be the ones to conceive of a tool that is suitable for our purpose that becomes the familiar standard for other platforms.

    This is about 'tracking' but... I think counting days is just one way of doing it and actually misleading if that's all that users are made aware of. A day is 24hours so we could track the time by a counting digital clock. It's a different psychological impact to see time passing by the moment. But anyway it's misleading because it cues us to think of addiction recovery solely in terms of time rather than urges.
  5. Exactly, the semantics is profound
  6. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    And my idea for a while has been to track interdependencies rather than units of measure - for example a good nights sleep as it relates to each day, working with the circadian rhythms. The challenge there is most people are not sensitive enough until there is some experience over a period of time, but I am encouraged with some others making the point and there's even a challenge thread on no screen time which has the intention of getting to sleep. If I could make it into a game it would involve maybe variables of light exposure, diet timing and exercise timing. People wouldn't even need to have the computer give them a trophy, they will feel better and automatically sleep and rejuvenate better, which does translate to rebooting better.
  7. There is a like limit per day. So it's not a complete free for all. I think it might be 30 or 50. I'm not sure.

    I think the status is somewhat warranted if it is used correctly. If people make good posts that get lots of likes they are encouraged to make more good posts. People who post a lot but nobody likes what they say should be encouraged to not post a lot.

    Of course there is a percentage of fluff sprinkled in those numbers and quantity of activity will yield higher likes by default but I still think it's a valid system of encouragement.
    recon117 and Deleted Account like this.
  8. Thank you, that's an interesting idea to me. Just so I can be sure of your meaning, what is another example of a trackable interdependency?
  9. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Come to think of it, there could be a trophy that is given for a post that has at least one of all the variables. If people likes something, finds it helpful and interesting maybe. Not sure what it would be called but clearly something that well rounded deserves recognition - even if it is an automated machine process. And rather than just giving it to the poster it might be nice to indicate it on the thread itself so as to encourage others to read it as a higher quality post, something to counter the tl;dr tendency.
    recon117 likes this.
  10. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Well diet and exercise. The result might even be generalized in terms of the amount of work one can do in terms of an objective measure of load and repetition, or in the case of endurance stuff distance and time. Either alone might yield result but obviously if your diet is really crappy but you work out hard or if you eat really well but am a couch potato the actual performance will not improve that much.
  11. Thank you, I didn't know about the limitation on likes, is that essentially an admission by the social platform of the inappropriateness of like button?

    What about you personally, do you experience any negative side effects with the like button?
    Deleted Account likes this.
  12. From time to time. I don't think it's inappropriate though. I consider all these threads to be conversations and like button is similar to nodding silently in agreement with what someone said or disagreeing but still being courteous.
    recon117 and Deleted Account like this.
  14. Expand the quotation to view my last comment, I accidentally merged my reply with the quote
  15. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    The point isn't online or off though, it's that those things naturally work together and you need to address all variables for the best result and further progress. In the health and fitness example, actually sleep would be a third variable. Anyone who has taken it seriously know they can even eat well and exercise but they will hit a plateau if they don't recover and get needed rest.

    The thing with rebooting is you need to make an artificial connection between online and offline, it works on the honor system to keep your day counter accurate when there is a reset. What we CAN do is have that reflected in the way we set up the indicators online.

    So I was thinking in terms of this concept of combining multiple variables in the trophy for a well rounded post in the #9 post in this thread above. (the number of post is on the upper right of each post) This is actually already used in games where there's some kind of bonus when you hit several areas. The idea of putting the trophy on the thread itself rather than the profile of the poster would be to encourage meaningful social engagement, the recognition would be to foster meaningful communication rather than self esteem.
    Deleted Account likes this.

  16. Okay I'm getting to grips with the concept of rewards for variables and interdependencies, and I like it. I don't play video games so I have a block on that comparison.
  17. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Bumping this - Most of the time I see Moderators but once I saw a Developer logged in, I know it would take some work but might the idea of other flags aside from the Like be taken into consideration as a new feature in the future? (Thanks, Helpful, etc.)
  18. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
    NoFap Defender

    @Jack Fischer (developer).
    recon117 and Awedouble like this.
  19. Tbh I didn't really understand this but anyway the notification 'alert' technically is dopamine spiking. The platform designer must know this, surely? Lol.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2019
  20. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Again Yelp is an actual example. If you look at the bottom of a review you'll see instead of Likes it has Useful, Funny and Cool. The point is, or rather are 1. You can have other flags aside from "like" 2. You can have more than one 3. They can be more meaningful than "like." Again one small forum I am aware of has a Gratitude flag, that along with Useful/Helpful would be more meaningful than Like as far as I'm concerned, and there could be others.

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