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Bitter Pill/"With Great Power..."

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Open Parasol, May 12, 2015.

  1. Open Parasol

    Open Parasol Fapstronaut

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    In your opinion, how much of human culture(s) is rooted in/based around fear and exclusion?

    I swear this is probably the most loaded question I have ever asked in my life, and I debated posting it here for hours. People from all walks gather here and most of you are so kind. So please let me make it perfectly clear, I DO NOT wish to offend anyone by asking this.
     
  2. himmelstoss

    himmelstoss Fapstronaut

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    not sure what you mean by fear and exclusion but I think most people's natural survival instincts drive them to live in communities with people who look like them. Cosmopolitan uptopias fly in the face of human nature and you need more police on duty to keep the racial tension under control (some would argue the ivory tower crowd is using racial tension to justify tighter control of the population)
     
  3. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    Absolutely everything is based on fear and exclusion. Naturally humans are very community minded and we yearn for connection. This connection keeps us out of harms way in terms of destructive behavior. Our culture is based on capitalism which is "every man for himself" and "dog eat dog" type of world. This keeps us separated from each other and in fear and consumerism. That fear can be based on race, gender, societal status, income etc. Then there is the never ending race to be better than everyone else by buying lots of crap.
     
    HippyMinstrel likes this.
  4. Long time ago
    in the beginning
    there were no white people in this world
    there was nothing European.
    And this world might have gone on like that
    except for one thing:
    witchery.
    This world was already complete
    even without white people.
    There was everything
    including witchery.

    Then it happened.
    These witch people got together.
    Some came from far far away
    across oceans
    across mountains.
    Some had slanty eyes
    others had black skin.
    They all got together for a contest
    the way people have baseball tournaments nowadays
    except this was a contest
    in dark things.

    So anyway
    they all go together
    witch people from all directions
    witches from all the Pueblos
    and all the tribes.
    They had Navajo witches there,
    some from Hopi, and a few from Zuni.
    They were having a witches' conference,
    that's what it was
    Way up in the lava rock hills
    north of Canoncito
    they got together
    to fool around in caves
    with their animal skins.
    Fox, badger, bobcat, and wolf
    they circled the fire
    and on the fourth time
    they jumped into that animal's skin.

    But this time it wasn't enough
    and one of them
    maybe Sioux or some Eskimos
    started showing off.
    "That wasn't anything,
    watch this."

    The contest started like that.
    Then some of them lifted the lids
    on their big cooking pots,
    calling the rest of them over
    to take a look:
    dead babies simmering in blood
    circles of skull cut away
    all the brains sucked out.
    Witch medicine
    to dry and grind into powder
    for new victims.
    Others untied skin bundles of disgusting objects:
    dark flints, cinders from burning hogans where the
    dead lay
    Whorls of skin
    cut from finger tips
    sliced from the penis end and clitoris tip.

    Finally there was only one
    who hadn't shown off charms or powers.
    The witch stood in the shadows beyond the fire
    and no one ever knew where this witch came from
    which tribe
    or if it was a woman or a man.
    But the important thing was
    this witch didn't show off any dark thunder charcoals
    or red ant-hill beads.
    This one just told them to listen:
    "What I have is a story."

    At first they all laughed
    but this witch said
    Okay
    go ahead
    laugh if you want to
    but as I tell the story
    it will begin to happen.


    Set in motion now
    set in motion by our witchery
    to work for us.


    Caves across the ocean
    in caves of dark hills
    white skin people
    like the belly of a fish
    covered with hair.


    Then they grow away from the earth
    then they grow away from the sun
    then they grow away from the plants and animals.
    They see no life
    When they look
    they see only objects.
    The world is a dead thing for them
    the trees and rivers are not alive
    the mountains and stones are not alive.
    The deer and the bear are objects
    They see no life.
    They fear
    They fear the world.
    They destroy what they fear.
    They fear themselves.


    The wind will blow them across the ocean
    thousands of them in giant boats
    swarming like larva
    out of a crushed ant hill.


    They will carry objects
    which can shoot death
    faster than the eye can see.


    They will kill the things they fear
    all the animals
    the people will starve.


    They will poison the water
    they will spin the water away
    and there will be drought
    the people will starve.


    They will fear what they find
    They will fear the people
    They will kill what they fear.


    Entire villages will be wiped out
    They will slaughter whole tribes.
    Corpses for us
    Blood for us
    Killing killing killing killing


    And those they do not kill
    will die anyway
    at the destruction they see
    at the loss
    at the loss of the children
    the loss will destroy the rest.


    Stolen rivers and mountains
    the stolen land will eat their hearts
    and jerk their mouths from the Mother.
    The people will starve.


    They will bring terrible diseases
    the people have never known.
    Entire tribes will die out
    covered with festering sores...
    vomiting blood.
    Corpses for our work


    Set in motion now
    set in motion by our witchery
    set in motion
    to work for us


    They will take this world from ocean to ocean
    they will turn on each other
    they will destroy each other
    Up here
    in these hills
    they will find the rocks,
    rocks with veins of green and yellow and black.
    They will lay the final pattern with these rocks
    they will lay it across the world
    and explode everything.


    Set in motion now
    set in motion
    To destroy
    To kill
    Objects to work for us
    objects to act for us
    Performing the witchery
    for suffering
    for torment
    for the stillborn
    the deformed
    the sterile
    the dead.


    Whirling
    Whirling
    Whirling
    Whirling
    set into motion now
    set into motion.


    So the other witches said
    "Okay you win; you take the prize,
    but what you said just now -
    it isn't so funny
    It doesn't sound so good.
    We are doing okay without that kind of thing.
    Take it back.
    Call that story back."

    But the witch just shook its head
    at the others in their stinking animal skins, fur
    and feathers.
    It's already turned loose.
    It's already coming.
    It can't be called back.


    -From the Book Ceremony by Leslie Marmon Silko​
     
    WhiteSoul and Limeaid like this.
  5. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    Wow wow wow!!! Love that mumchance.
     
  6. I know! That poem is so powerful and perfect for this thread. You should read the rest of the book if you have time. I definitely recommend it.

    Our fear is often the grammar of the stories we tell about us. Manifest Destiny, the Good Consumer, The Faithful Citizen, America the New Israel, CyberCitizen: all these stories are built on fear. Fear of the Other, fear of not "keeping up with the Jones", fear of being thought not to care about your country, fear of becoming poor, fear of people thinking you are old-fashioned and not with the times. And because of these fears we exclude people as we try to build a our fragile bubbles of security. We exclude people who don't look like us. We exclude people who are poorer than us. We exclude people who don't agree with us. And we live in our little bubbles always worried that someone will break in.

    Sorry, that kind of life is not for me. Instead of obsessing over all your perceived enemies, why not make those enemies friends?
     
  7. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    Fear and exclusion of outsiders is rooted in our genes, because it gives an advantage to the group who does it over those who don't. Insiders have opportunities both inside their group and in others that don't exclude. It also decreases chances of falling victim to groups with bad intentions.
    So of course you can try to suppress it and treat everyone equally. This might make for a peaceful and uniform world if everyone would do it. But not everyone does it and therefore what has formed our genes in the past is still true in this case.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  8. Limeaid

    Limeaid Guest

    Immor I don't think there is anything wrong with fear of a true and real enemy especially if it is against a group. I don't think we mean treat everyone equally even bad people. What I mean is that we are so afraid of others for absolutely no reason we can't even form groups against bad 'others'. for example banding together to defeat a corrupt government. When I am afraid of my neighbour, afraid to walk at night, afraid of people based on race I am excluding a lot of people that might be thinking the same way I am thinking. Nowadays we are afraid of everything and it keeps us separated. Think about NoFap and how we are all in this together as a community against porn (maybe against porn is a strong word for some but you know what I mean). this would not really exist outside of the internet because people are so afraid of others. Separation keeps us from defeating any real threat. It's similar to shadow boxing, we are so worn out from fighting imaginary demons we can't begin to fight real ones.
     
    Immor likes this.
  9. Immor

    Immor Fapstronaut

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    Alright, I didn't see it that way. I really like the sentiment Limeaid.
    Let's stick together and form groups again. Since family and religion have been seriously sabotaged, we need to build something new or fix those. Neighborhoods are a good place to start.
     
    Limeaid likes this.

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